Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 January 19: Difference between revisions
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::::: The same would apply to Christian, Islamic, Hindu, or Buddhist totalitarian regimes, or any belief system held or supported by any totalitarian regime, and, honestly, if your argument would apply to atheistic totalitarian regimes, it would, I think, logically, have to apply to any totalitarian regimes of the types I named here as well. [[User:John Carter|John Carter]] ([[User talk:John Carter|talk]]) 00:09, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::: You seem to have ignored the part where 'atheism' is not a 'thing' or religion (like Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, or Buddhism is), and yes, if a totalitarian regime is the author of acts or events, then ''it'' should be named as the author of these, not whatever secondary '-istic' aspects it may have. <span style="font-family:Futura, Helvetica, _sans;font-size:85%;text-shadow:1px 1px 3px #a0a0a0;">[[User:ThePromenader|<span style="color:#ddd7a3;">THE<span style="color:#aba67e;">PROMENADER</span></span>]] [[User_talk:ThePromenader|✎]] [[Special:Contributions/ThePromenader|✓]]</span> 13:43, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
::::::::Here are some citations from the article on Religion in the Soviet Union:
::::::::Thus the USSR became the first<ref>{{cite web|title=Revelations from the Russian Archives: ANTI-RELIGIOUS CAMPAIGNS|url=https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/archives/anti.html|website=Library of Congress|publisher=US Government|accessdate=2 May 2016}}</ref> state to have, as an ideological objective, the [[state atheism|elimination of religion]]<ref name=Kowalewski>{{cite journal|last=Kowalewski|first=David|title=Protest for Religious Rights in the USSR: Characteristics and Consequences|journal=Russian Review|date=October 1980|volume=39|issue=4|pages=426–441|jstor=128810|doi=10.2307/128810|via=[[JSTOR]]|registration=y}}</ref> and its replacement with universal [[atheism]].<ref>{{cite book|last=Ramet|first=Sabrina Petra. (Ed)|title=Religious Policy in the Soviet Union|year=1993|publisher=Cambridge University Press|pages=4}}</ref><ref>{{cite book|last=Anderson|first=John|title=Religion, State and Politics in the Soviet Union and Successor States|year=1994|publisher=Cambridge University Press|location=Cambridge, England|isbn=0-521-46784-5|pages=3}}</ref> The [[communist]] regime confiscated religious property, ridiculed religion, harassed believers, and propagated atheism in schools.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/archives/anti.html |title=Anti-religious Campaigns |publisher=Loc.gov |date= |accessdate=2011-09-19}}</ref>
::::::::And here is a quote from a certain atheist named Vladimir Lenin, also taken from the article [[Religion in the Soviet Union]].
::::::::State Atheism in the Soviet Union was known as ''gosateizm'',<ref name=Kowalewski/> and was based on the ideology of [[Marxism–Leninism]]. As the founder of the Soviet state, [[V. I. Lenin]], put it:
::::::::<blockquote>Religion is the [[opium of the people]]: this saying of [[Marx]] is the cornerstone of the entire ideology of Marxism about religion. All modern religions and churches, all and of every kind of religious organizations are always considered by Marxism as the organs of bourgeois reaction, used for the protection of the exploitation and the stupefaction of the working class.<ref name="Lenin">{{cite web
| url=http://www.psylib.ukrweb.net/books/maenl01/txt17
| last = Lenin
| first = V. I.
| title = About the attitude of the working party toward the religion.
| accessdate=2006-09-09
| work = Collected works, v. 17, p.41
}}</ref>
</blockquote>
::::::::::The point is the both atheist governments and atheist individuals were responsible for persecution of religions and religious individuals. we can pull information on Cina and Mao [[User:Majoreditor|Majoreditor]] ([[User talk:Majoreditor|talk]]) 01:35, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' - There is no really many instants of this. It is really just communist repression most of the time and the others don't seem to have any links towards atheism. <span style="background-color:darkgreen; border:2px ridge green;">[[User:Jackninja5|<span style='color:#FFFFFF;'>The Ninja5 Empire</span>]] ([[User talk:Jackninja5|<span style='color:#FFFFFF;'>Talk</span>]])</span> 04:23, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
'''Strong delete'''. Xenophrenic and others have summarised it pretty well. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in deities, and has no call to action whatsoever, let alone a complete system of ethics on which all atheists roughly agree. As such, atheism does not motivate anyone to carry out any specific action, such as persecution. Although there is such a thing called [[secular humanism]] –an atheistic moral system in the sense that no deities play a role in the question how one should behave– there seems to be no literature about 'persecution by secular humanists' or something like that. All the items that would be in this category have something to do with Communist regimes, or something that looks like Communism. Again, Communism is in part an 'atheistic' moral system in the sense that no deities play a role in the question how one should behave, but the rationale for violence does not follow from the notion that no deities exist. They flow from the Marxist idea that the ruling class, including the clergy, should be destroyed by a violent revolution ("class struggle"), and that post-revolution ordinary people should receive nonreligious education so that they will eventually become atheists. These types of persecution were mostly anti-clerical in nature: they were carried out by regimes that tried to break the power of organised religion, held by clergymen – many of which were indeed killed in the Soviet and other periods – and did not kill ordinary lay religious people just because of the fact that they were religious. And as ThePromenader said, especially in Christian apologetics, equating Soviet Communism with atheism is a common [[poisoning the well]] tactic to try and dissuade anyone from apostasy ('Stalin was an atheist! You don't want to become like him, do you?!'). This category may have been created as a religious apologetic [[false equivalence]] argument between persection by religions groups and persecution 'by atheists'. It has no place on Wikipedia. [[User:Nederlandse Leeuw|Nederlandse Leeuw]] ([[User talk:Nederlandse Leeuw|talk]]) 23:24, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
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