User talk:Immanuelle: Difference between revisions
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::::::::Some reviewers find it hard to accept the borderline drafts, some do not. |
::::::::Some reviewers find it hard to accept the borderline drafts, some do not. |
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::::::::You may want to tune your drafting to be much better than the acceptance criteria prior to submitting (when your block is lifted, naturally), and to work on fewer drafts at any one time. 🇺🇦 [[User:Timtrent|<span style="color:#800">Fiddle</span><sup><small>Timtrent</small></sup>]] [[User talk:Timtrent|<span style="color:#070">Faddle</span><sup><small>Talk to me</small></sup>]] 🇺🇦 22:24, 14 December 2023 (UTC) |
::::::::You may want to tune your drafting to be much better than the acceptance criteria prior to submitting (when your block is lifted, naturally), and to work on fewer drafts at any one time. 🇺🇦 [[User:Timtrent|<span style="color:#800">Fiddle</span><sup><small>Timtrent</small></sup>]] [[User talk:Timtrent|<span style="color:#070">Faddle</span><sup><small>Talk to me</small></sup>]] 🇺🇦 22:24, 14 December 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::@[[User:LEvalyn|LEvalyn]] the thing that worries me is that if I wait 6 months to appeal the block, then I will have to wait another 6 months to appeal any editing restrictions. Because as I understand the 6 month rule works like a [[Consecutive sentence]] rather than a [[Concurrent sentence]]. I'd have to be active on wikipedia "succeeding" under the editing restrictions in order for them to be lifted. My understanding is that any other statement such as that I believe the editing restrictions were well intentioned but had unintentionally negative side effects to me would not be approved of. And likewise it's actually a race to be unblocked because if I waited six months then I'd ideallly get unblocked today and then, |
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:::::I'd like to take a six month break but if takinhg a six month break trranslates into me taking six months more time to get to restrictions being lifted I'd be more skeptical. |
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:::::My perception is that while I was making a lot of mistakes while editing, and some of which led to pretty serious problems. The restrictions that were imposed on me were quite well intentioned buit ultimately caused problems.. I think a straight 6 month imposition would have been good back then, or even a 6 month block, but I don't perceive it as being beneficial in the future. |
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:::::If the blocks and such were treated as concurrent and I could appeal restrictions while also appealing a block I'd just go for it and study Japanese as much as possible in the 6 months.But I am concerned that it is treated as concurrenty and as a result I need to get unblocked as soon as possible even if I do not want to participate at the time. [[User:Immanuelle|'''Immanuel'''le]] ❤️💚💙 [[User_talk:Immanuelle|(talk to the cutest Wikipedian)]] 12:45, 15 December 2023 (UTC) |
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==Your draft article, [[Draft:Tagi Shrine]]== |
==Your draft article, [[Draft:Tagi Shrine]]== |
Revision as of 12:45, 15 December 2023
This is Immanuelle's talk page, where you can send them messages and comments. |
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Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19Auto-archiving period: 30 days |
Translations
Please, can you help me with these translations from Japanese to English: ja:
- Thank you. I'd be happy to look at them, but I am still under editing restrictions on this. This is certainly a wide variety of topics. How did you select them? Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 08:58, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
- ja:
烏丸 家 (Karasumaru family) is probably the one I'd feel most comfortable with in terms of my own ability, and I could especially help with the family tree in it. ja:山本 顧彌太 (Koyata Yamamoto) is in the area where even though I believe he is notable, the Japanese article does not have enough sources to pass on English wikipedia. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 09:04, 2 December 2023 (UTC)- I plan on going to bed soon. Please feel free to message me tomorrow or on other days Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 09:07, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
- I wanted to do it myself, but I'm too busy with work until February. Then, when you'll have time, can you help me? Thank you very much. 79.21.233.65 (talk) 10:09, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- Probably not by February. I have editing restricitions which would keep me from doing any translations in the medium term. But I'll definitely look at these topics if they get lifted Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 23:41, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you and sorry, I wait for good news. Don't forget it when you'll have time. See you. 95.239.125.51 (talk) 08:06, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
- You've probably seen this page already. Just put more stuff there Draft:Proposed article translations Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 17:41, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you and sorry, I wait for good news. Don't forget it when you'll have time. See you. 95.239.125.51 (talk) 08:06, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
- Probably not by February. I have editing restricitions which would keep me from doing any translations in the medium term. But I'll definitely look at these topics if they get lifted Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 23:41, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- I wanted to do it myself, but I'm too busy with work until February. Then, when you'll have time, can you help me? Thank you very much. 79.21.233.65 (talk) 10:09, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
- I plan on going to bed soon. Please feel free to message me tomorrow or on other days Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 09:07, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
- ja:
Your submission at Articles for creation: Nunakuma Shrine has been accepted
Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.
The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. Most new articles start out as Stub-Class or Start-Class and then attain higher grades as they develop over time. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.
If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk. Once you have made at least 10 edits and had an account for at least four days, you will have the option to create articles yourself without posting a request to Articles for creation.
If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider
.Thanks again, and happy editing!
zoglophie•talk• 11:17, 8 December 2023 (UTC)More drafts
Hello,
More drafts coming up for deletion. Can these also be CSD G7?
Extended content
|
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There is a bunch more I'll ask you about later. I'll give you a head's up. Liz Read! Talk! 22:14, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
- It looks like Explicit couldn't wait for these pages to be eligible for G13 deletion. Well, at least you have this list of deleted drafts. Liz Read! Talk! 01:47, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Liz yeah they seem like they were fine to delete. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 02:07, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
Your draft article, Draft:Nobi Flight Gokoku Shrine
Hello, Immanuelle. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Nobi Flight Gokoku Shrine".
In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.
Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz Read! Talk! 22:52, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
Your draft article, Draft:New Gokoku Template
Hello, Immanuelle. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "New Gokoku Template".
In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.
Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz Read! Talk! 22:52, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
Your submission at Articles for creation: Ikagashikome has been accepted
Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.
If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk. Once you have made at least 10 edits and had an account for at least four days, you will have the option to create articles yourself without posting a request to Articles for creation.
If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider
.Thanks again, and happy editing!
~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 06:36, 9 December 2023 (UTC)Your submission at Articles for creation: Shinkai (divine rank) has been accepted
Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.
If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk. Once you have made at least 10 edits and had an account for at least four days, you will have the option to create articles yourself without posting a request to Articles for creation.
If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider
.Thanks again, and happy editing!
Suitskvarts (talk) 16:12, 9 December 2023 (UTC)Your draft article, Draft:Gokoku Shrine table III
Hello, Immanuelle. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Gokoku Shrine table III".
In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.
Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz Read! Talk! 16:32, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
Your draft article, Draft:Immanuelle/Modern lower
Hello, Immanuelle. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Modern lower".
In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.
Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz Read! Talk! 22:33, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
Your submission at Articles for creation: Miyazu-hime has been accepted
Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.
The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. Most new articles start out as Stub-Class or Start-Class and then attain higher grades as they develop over time. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.
If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk. Once you have made at least 10 edits and had an account for at least four days, you will have the option to create articles yourself without posting a request to Articles for creation.
If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider
.Thanks again, and happy editing!
Cerebellum (talk) 23:34, 9 December 2023 (UTC)Your draft article, Draft:Akasaka Uenoyama Shrine
Hello, Immanuelle. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Akasaka Uenoyama Shrine".
In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.
Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz Read! Talk! 07:18, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
And more drafts!
Hello, Immanuelle,
How do you feel about these drafts? Is is okay to delete them? Most of them are due to be deleted in 5 or 6 hours.
Just thought I'd check in with you. Liz Read! Talk! 21:46, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Liz all good to delete Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 21:48, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
- Okay, they are deleted. Any time you want to return to working on them, let an admin like me or WP:REFUND know with a request. Liz Read! Talk! 22:26, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
- Hello, Immanuelle,
- And there is more! Can these go, too?
- Let me know. Liz Read! Talk! 17:58, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Liz yeah all of those are good for deletion. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 23:07, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- When we are dealing with dozens of drafts created over a brief 2-5 minute window of time, it's much easier to deal with them this way, when the reviewer has some free time as long as you aren't still interested in working on them. Thanks again, Immanuelle. Liz Read! Talk! 23:28, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Liz you can delete all of these drafts too. Is it okay if I provide large lists of drafts I want deleted even though a lot of them are not near g7?
- Draft:Adonis Linea
- Draft:Agave Linea
- Draft:Agenor Linea
- Draft:Alphesiboea Linea
- Draft:Androgeos Linea
- Draft:Argiope Linea
- Draft:Asterius Linea
- Draft:Autonoë Linea
- Draft:Butterdon Linea
- Draft:Cadmus Linea
- Draft:Corick Linea
- Draft:Drizzlecomb Linea
- Draft:Drumskinny Linea
- Draft:Euphemus Linea
- Draft:Glaukos Linea
- Draft:Harmonia Linea
- Draft:Hyperenor Linea
- Draft:Ino Linea
- Draft:Kennet Linea
- Draft:Libya Linea
- Draft:Mehen Linea
- Draft:Minos Linea
- Draft:Onga Linea
- Draft:Phineus Linea
- Draft:Phoenix Linea
- Draft:Rhadamanthys Linea
- Draft:Sarpedon Linea
- Draft:Sparti Linea
- Draft:Staldon Linea
- Draft:Tectamus Linea
- Draft:Telephassa Linea
- Draft:Thasus Linea
- Draft:Tormsdale Linea
- Draft:Udaeus Linea
- Draft:Yelland Linea
- Draft:Katreus Linea
- Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 23:32, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- These ones seem fine too
- Draft:
半 - Draft:
夜 - Draft:
新 - Draft:
切 - Draft:
晴 - Draft:
岩 - Draft:
園 - Draft:
市 - Draft:
雪 - Draft:
住 - Draft:
助 - Draft:
区 - Draft:
熊 - Draft:
佐 - Draft:埼
- Draft:
崎 - Draft:
滋 - Draft:
縄 - Draft:
沖 - Draft:
栃 - Draft:奈
- Draft:
帳 - Draft:
岸 - Draft:
屋 - Draft:
宿 - Draft:
息 - Draft:
想 - Draft:
感 - Draft:
所 - Draft:
真 - Draft:
発 - Draft:
球 - Draft:
炭 - Draft:
漢 - Draft:
温 - Draft:
決 - Draft:
氷 - Draft:
曲 - Draft:
昭 - Draft:
族 - Draft:
洋 - Draft:
究 - Draft:
苦 - Draft:
表 - Draft:
送 - Draft:
遊 - Draft:
重 - Draft:
集 - Draft:
低 - Draft:
健 - Draft:
児 - Draft:
労 - Draft:
協 - Draft:
参 - Draft:
司 - Draft:
各 - Draft:唱
- Draft:
件 - Draft:
亡 - Draft:
優 - Draft:
完 - Draft:
底 - Draft:
散 - Draft:
料 - Draft:
最 - Draft:械
- Draft:泣
- Draft:
浅 - Draft:
象 - Draft:
票 - Draft:
善 - Draft:
城 - Draft:
将 - Draft:
句 - Draft:
団 - Draft:
弁 - Draft:
座 - Draft:
情 - Draft:
棒 - Draft:
源 - Draft:
灰 - Draft:
演 - Draft:
逸 - Draft:
哀 - Draft:
悦 - Draft:
卸 - Draft:
歐 - Draft:逓
- Draft:嘆
- Draft:
憎 - Draft:
鑑 - Draft:
企 - Draft:
脅 - Draft:
堅 - Draft:
婚 - Draft:
幻 - Draft:
抱 - Draft:
乾 - Draft:
雇 - Draft:拶
- Draft:
津 - Draft:醒
- Draft:捉
- Draft:
透 - Draft:
騰 - Draft:
督 - Draft:
尿 - Draft:
盤 - Draft:
傍 - Draft:
枕 - Draft:
寬 - Draft:
枠 - Draft:
藍 - Draft:
麓 - Draft:
郞 - Draft:侶
- Draft:
- Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 00:46, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Liz @Explicit here are some more to delete
- draft:Kamo Shrine (Awa City)
- draft:Kamo Shrine (Gifu)
- draft:Kamo Shrine (Ichinomiya City)
- draft:Kamo Shrine (Ukiha City)
- draft:Katsuragi Mitose Shrine
- draft:Kamo Shrine (Kahoku City)
- draft:Kamo Omikami Mikoto Kamutama Shrine
- draft:Kamo Shrine (Saitama City)
- draft:Kamo Shrine (Toyohashi City)
- draft:Kamo Shrine (Shimizu City)
- draft:Kamo Shrine (Omihachiman City)
- draft:Kamo Shrine (Kamonagare City)
- draft:Kamo Shrine (Kawanishi City)
- draft:Kamo Shrine (Kuroshio Town)
- draft:Kamo Shrine (Takatsuki City)
- draft:Kamo Shrine (Tatsuno City)
- draft:Kamo Shrine (Nasu Karasuyama City)
- draft:Kamo Shrine (Sakaide City)
- draft:Kamo Tobaha Shrine
- draft:Kamo Shrine (Sendai City)
- draft:Takakamo Shrine
- draft:Takataki Shrine (Ichihara City)
- draft:Kamo Shrine (Nagano City Onimusha)
- draft:Kamo Shrine (Nagano City Nishinagano)
- draft:Hiraide Raiden Shrine
- draft:Mishima Kamo Shrine
- draft:Kamo Shrine (Minamiboso City)
- draft:Wakarai Shrine
- Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 01:00, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Liz @Explicit here are some more to delete
- These ones seem fine too
- @Liz you can delete all of these drafts too. Is it okay if I provide large lists of drafts I want deleted even though a lot of them are not near g7?
- When we are dealing with dozens of drafts created over a brief 2-5 minute window of time, it's much easier to deal with them this way, when the reviewer has some free time as long as you aren't still interested in working on them. Thanks again, Immanuelle. Liz Read! Talk! 23:28, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Liz yeah all of those are good for deletion. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 23:07, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
I have sent you a note about a page you started
Hello, Immanuelle. Thank you for your work on Mizuwakasu Shrine. User:North8000, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:
Good start. Article needs a much work on readability and grammar. Happy editing!
To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|North8000}}
. Please remember to sign your reply with ~~~~
. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)
North8000 (talk) 22:06, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
I have sent you a note about a page you started
Hello, Immanuelle. Thank you for your work on Shinkai (divine rank). User:North8000, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:
Good start. Needs work on grammar and readability. Happy editing!
To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|North8000}}
. Please remember to sign your reply with ~~~~
. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)
North8000 (talk) 22:08, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
Your draft article, Draft:変
Hello, Immanuelle. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "
In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.
Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz Read! Talk! 18:59, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
Some advice
Hello Immanuelle, I've seen some of your drafts at AfC and noticed your ongoing discussions at AN. I wanted to suggest that you read and think very seriously about this advice essay: WP:BACKWARD. In all of your drafts I have looked at, the sourcing is very thin even when I can convince myself the subject is notable. I think you will have an easier time writing articles that "stick" if, before you even create a draft or write a single word, you can get four or five really high-quality sources (books and news articles, no databases or tourist sites or personal webpages) in front of you.
Trying to "rescue" all your existing drafts strikes me as a prime example of writing an article backward: you're starting with thousands of topics that you have only the faintest thread of information about, and spending lots of effort working on / evaluating each one. I understand that you don't want to "lose" the work you've done, so I want to remind you that you don't have to keep things on Wikipedia to avoid losing them. I'd suggest going through all your drafts and copy-pasting them into documents on your own computer (or google drive if you need to keep them online), and then telling an admin they can delete everything.
And then I suggest starting fresh with the goal of finding a "slam-dunk" topic, maybe even getting an article to GA status, so you can see what it feels like when an article "goes well". I think the best starting place for a "slam-dunk" topic is always a book: if something has a whole book about it, there is almost guaranteed to be a bunch of other coverage as well, and the book will probably even help you find it. You could also try expanding high-importance stubs in WikiProject Japan.
I know you are working very hard and I appreciate your efforts on Wikipedia's behalf, and especially your attention to easily-overlooked topics. But I'm concerned that you're focusing on the wrong metrics, when you're worrying about your contributions. Getting your draft backlog down to zero (or debating your editing restrictions!) isn't as important as contributing valuable knowledge to the encyclopedia. I think focusing on the knowledge first will help you keep learning, growing, and improving in the right direction. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 19:03, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- Ok, this is adding up to a lot of advice, but I also want to highlight something about the way I put information from your Draft:Bekko candy on the hard candy article. This is a subtle distinction, but I added information without merging content. By which I mean, I wrote completely new sentences in the hard candy article, using the same source and conveying some of the same information as in the bekko candy draft. This is not a merge because there was no copy-pasting and the information was adapted to its new article context. You are allowed to add information to mainspace articles, including articles on topics related to drafts, even though you are not allowed to merge content.
- Note also that I only cited one source for my addition to hard candy: this is because only one source is necessary per fact. (See WP:CITEKILL) In general, the goal of having multiple sources is that they allow the article to contain many facts; notable topics have multiple sources because there are lots of interesting things to say about them, and that's why they need a whole article to sum it all up. If you only have one fact, it only needs one high-quality source, and it will probably fit neatly into some existing article.
- I'll stop with the unsolicited advice now, but if you have any questions or want to solicit some advice I am happy to help any time. Happy editing! ~ L 🌸 (talk) 21:40, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- @LEvalyn nah that's fine. I'd like to try to get something there for Kamiyo Ame, the variant of the candy associated with Kotohira-gū, although I'm struggling to find a source that is not a tourist site.
- I am quite surprised Yata no Kagami is such a brief article. I just added some content on its contemporary ritual significance, but it will take me a bit more to really put a lot into it
- There are definitely a lot of articles I'd like to attempt to put together, but cannot. I'd say the most notable one is I want to attempt to make a draft on a Japanese deity called
布留 多摩 命 that has no Japanese wikipedia article. Or even just a userspace page explaining my attempts at researching the obscure deity. I feel there are definitely people here who would want to work with me on such a project, although it probably would go nowhere, but I don't like the fact that as far as I can see I just cannot touch anything Japanese language without potentially violating or being perceived as violating restrictions. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 22:29, 12 December 2023 (UTC) - Yes, this is exactly the kind of editing I have been trying to encourage you to do, Immanuelle, when your drafts are declined because the information belongs in another article. Your editing restriction only prevented you from directly copy-pasting a declined draft into another article. -- asilvering (talk) 03:36, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- @LEvalyn well the reasoning behind getting my drafts down is mostly externally imposed. My perception behind reducing my draft count is that because people wanted me to reduce my draft count so much during the earlier ANI thread, that I considered getting ones through to be something that would reflect well on me as someone able to follow community imposed sanctions or suggestions. My thought was that the lifting of editing restrictions was always more about following community guidelines than producing quality content.
- As far as those articles go. I think Yata no Kagami is one I could really improve a lot. I think I could easily double in size and do so with pretty decent sourcing. It doesn't even cover the contemporary ritual significance of it and symbolism at all. Kusanagi no Tsurugi is better but still only start class.
- It definitely would be within my abilities to improve those two articles substantially while following the imposed restrictions. But honestly a year with no ability to appeal would be really hard on me. As I am essentially having an imposed skills atrophy on me. That's the thing that really bothers me about them. I'm not given the opportunity to become more skilled. I know Competence is required but I just don't see unrestricted draftspace or userspace editing as being much of an issue if I am actively working with a competent editor and not submitting tons of sloppy machine translated drafts or whatever. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 21:41, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- I understand that an imposed restriction can feel really heavy, and I'm sorry it's getting in the way of your editing enjoyment. But I really do want to encourage you that you don't need these restrictions lifted in order to edit well and to build skills. I also still want to emphasize thinking about the big-picture goals of Wikipedia. People want you to follow community guidelines, and have a small draft backlog, because both of those things produce a quality encyclopedia.
- So to get more specific about what "evidence of improvement" might look like: I don't think anybody except for you would be disappointed if you got to a 0 draft backlog by saving all your work to your computer for posterity and deleting all the remaining drafts at once. In fact, working your way through the draft backlog probably worries people (it worries me) that you are too stubborn to understand which kinds of edits are most valuable on Wikipedia, so sorting through all of them is only very limited evidence of growth. Quality content-- so people can see how the encyclopedia is better thanks to your work-- is much better evidence. Or even, a really good evidence of growth would probably be participating a lot at WP:AfD.
- The skills people want you to build are things like "understanding what kind of information is valuable," "citing high-quality sources," and "putting things in the most useful place." A skill like "using machine translation responsibly" is not one you need for Wikipedia: if you want to incorporate Japanese-language sources, from Wikipedia's point of view, the skill you need to build is learning Japanese. Learning Japanese would take at least a year!
- Everybody likes to edit in different ways so it's OK for you to follow your own interests. You can create a bunch of stubs through AfC if you like that better than expanding existing articles; you don't have to comment at AfD if you don't like it. This is a volunteer project! But don't obsess over the draft backlog or the editing restriction as goals in themselves. If you focus your attention on making a really useful encyclopedia, and can explain why your actions make the encyclopedia better, that is the most important thing. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 22:20, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- @LEvalyn well I guess part of the issue is that I have actually studied Japanese formally. I admit I was lazy before, but my preference for understanding a Japanese text is to initially run it through a machine translation to figure out the general gist of it, so I don't get completely lost with the kanji. I don't have this problem with the other two languages I have studied the most (French and Dutch) but that is because I have something of an advantage with writing systems for those two.
- There's one book in particular that I am really interested in in Japanese about the deity Watatsumi, and his son. It is well beyond my ability to cite it on my own, but I really would like to say make a user page talking about my progress trying to interpret it and asking for help. Something I feel would violate editing restrictions. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 22:48, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- I agree that what you propose with that book would violate your editing restrictions. I will repeat that this is, essentially, on purpose: the core idea behind WP:CIR is that wanting to do something isn't enough if you aren't able to do it. With translation, accuracy and a high level of language competence is very important, because whatever gets put into Wikipedia will be treated as the truth and it's harder for mistakes to get corrected. It's better for nothing to be translated than for a translation to have an error. Personally, I'd love to improve Olympe de Gouges' article with a biography in French that I bought, but I can't actually read French well enough for the author's dense style, even after several years of study. My solutions are: 1, learn more French; 2, find someone who already knows French and give them the book; 3, edit something else. I am doing 1 and 3. Instead of focusing on things you can't do, focus on things you can do. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 23:07, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
Your submission at Articles for creation: Bekko candy (December 12)
- @LEvalyn information might alternatively fit in Dagashi better than Hard candy. I know there's a guideline about repeating content, but not sure exactly how much it applies. They feel like they are about evenly split between the two categories. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 22:59, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- Oh, I didn't know about the dagashi article! That's a good idea of a place to look. To walk you through my thought process around where to place content, here's how I'd think it through.
- I think there were three verified facts about bekko candy in the draft:
- 1. Japanese hard candy is called bekko candy
- 2. There is a legend that a particular yokai can be distracted with bekko candy
- 3. There is a particular shrine known for its specific kind of bekko candy
- So, do any of those three facts relate to cheap convenience store candy? Well, 2 and 3 have nothing to do with convenience stores, but 1 is kind of related. Fact 1 doesn't say anything about dagashi specifically though, so I can't go add something like "a common kind of dagashi is bekko candy" -- for that I'd need a new source actually saying that. I wouldn't want to add it to that big list of common dagashi without a source. The article does already mention hard candy in passing, though, so I could wikilink hard candy (thus pointing to where I've put fact 2) and add in the Japanese name there. In fact, you're welcome to do just that. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 23:25, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- @LEvalyn yes I definitely need more sources for this to establish that they are sold in this manner. But I think the Dagashi article really needs a lot of work.
- I feel Ame (
飴 ) as a kind of candy is likely notable. Although this is a moving a bit too far away from what I am that interested in, and it has the same problem a lot of these things have where commercial sites and such overwhelm the results. This is the case for the Japanese internet too. - I'd say in the future if we were redirecting Bekko candy somewhere then it might be best for it to have a small section in Dagashi in the future. Ame seems to be a bit more broad and cover both other forms of hard candy, and some softer candies.
- I want to apologize for bad communication. I do find it pretty difficult to communicate on wikipedia as a whole. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 00:37, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- @LEvalyn that was surprising. I was not expecting a block like this. Was this just someone acting out of line? It seems very sudden. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 03:04, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- Hi Immanuelle, it's possible another administrator will reconsider the block, but I do not consider it sudden or surprising whatsoever. Frankly, if you are surprised, this is a sign that other editors are correct about your failure to understand what is unsatisfactory about your editing. A key objection to your editing has been that it is taking up other editors' time without substantial improvement to the encyclopedia.
- I recommend taking this block as an enforced wikibreak: you can study more Japanese, get involved in some fan wikis or other online communities, and read some interesting books. I suggest doing something else for at least six months. (You can save your drafts to your own computer if it bothers you to lose them.) If, after that time, you find there is something about Wikipedia that still intrigues you and you wish to request an unblock, I suggest including within your request a brief explanation of two well-sourced mainspace edits you would like to make, which can demonstrate how your future editing will look different.
- I'm sorry your efforts here haven't paid off better but I wish you all the best. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 03:49, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Immanuelle, I'm saddened to see that it has come to this, but I am not even a little bit surprised, and I do not believe it was sudden or out of line. I don't know what to tell you other than that I have read your responses to LEvalyn's extremely detailed and helpful comments here with great dismay; you don't appear to understand what is being suggested, or why it is being suggested. I hope you use this enforced wikibreak to read some books about topics that interest you - many of them, from cover to cover. I hope that reading good nonfiction without the ability to edit Wikipedia at the same time will give you some idea of what it is like to be a reader, rather than someone who mines books for factoids. Maybe this will help you to understand why other people like to write nonfiction - or wikipedia articles - and to understand why other editors have had concerns about what value your edits add to the project. I too am sorry, and wish you all the best. -- asilvering (talk) 03:58, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- @LEvalyn that was surprising. I was not expecting a block like this. Was this just someone acting out of line? It seems very sudden. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 03:04, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
Blocked
{{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}
. Johnuniq (talk) 03:03, 13 December 2023 (UTC)Thoughts
Honestly I don't know how to process this. I thought things were finally going in a good direction. I finally got my drafts under 2000 today, and thought that was cause for celebration, only to be blindsided by apparently the community not wanting me to do that?
In my eyes it was all relatively straightforward. I was supposed to focus on quality over quantity and avoid the issues of my talk page being unmanageable. I thought I was doing this effectively, by improving and submitting articles, by deleting ones and proactively avoiding scenarios of my talk page being flooded.
I thought my request was relatively reasonable, I didn't even see it as an appeal of restrictions, just as an attempt to get ambiguities resolved and a path to prove competence in an area.
Well I guess I'll be gone for a while. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 03:42, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- Hi Immanuelle, I hadn't seen this message when I posted the above. I just want to clarify regarding this point:
apparently the community not wanting me to do that
-- the community did want you to improve and submit some drafts while flagging others for deletion. It's just that they also wanted more than that: they wanted evidence that your time here was more productive than it was counter-productive. Wikipedia is not primarily here to be a learning experience for you: it is here to be a useful encyclopedia. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 04:17, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- I'm shocked, to be honest. I know this can happen if you refuse to drop the stick in a noticeboard discussion but I don't frequent AN/ANI any more so I don't know how you got to this point. I'll look into this tomorrow. Remember indefinite is not infinite. Liz Read! Talk! 04:40, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Liz @LEvalyn honestly I am still a bit distraught over this. But does it seem like there is any testimony needed from me or similar for this? Otherwise I'd prefer to avoid stress by not doing anything today. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 23:27, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- Personally, I don't believe there is anything you need to say or explain. And in fact, if you eventually want to request an unblock, that will probably go better if you have taken some time away from Wikipedia first. Take some rest. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 23:52, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- @LEvalyn honestly I do think a certain amount of time away would be beneficial to me. I think there is truth to the idea that I have been caught up with writing for getting past AFC more than writing for notability.
- I think a couple months of just doing reading would be really good for reminding me what is intriguing in writing rather than thinking in an overly database-like way. tbh the uncertainty of this situation really makes me anxious. Anxious to the point that I'd consider getting a 6 month block with a guarantee that after I'd be able to get that translation competence proving opportunity as being preferable to being unblocked right now and told I can appeal for that six months later. Under that scenario anything about declined draft content merging would be a moot point anyways since all the drafts would be deleted, except for a few I may have manually refunded, so I wouldn't really particularly want to bother with appealing it. I'd also get to look forward to trying to get Yata no Kagami up to GA status, which is a goal I never pursued before and one that excites me as a new approach to take.
- There is only one thing I really want to do in the short term, that I cannot do due to the block, and that is I wanted to propose the move of Category:Yamato clan to Category:Yamato no Atai clan since there are 4 different families called the Yamato clan. I was waiting for the Yamato no Kuni no Miyatsuko move discussion to finish before proposing the move. The article mostly about the family has their noble title as the article title, which I see as mistaken. I am specifically mentioning this to you since I think you'll know the proper thing to do, and what is or is not considered an attempt at block evasion. I don't want a well intentioned editor accidentally adding the unrelated Category:Yamato no Fuhito clan as a subcategory of it for example. Do I just have to completely avoid any communication at all on this topic to respect the block? Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 19:01, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, you aren't allowed to edit while you block, and you shouldn't use your talkpage to propose changes in the meantime either (see WP:PROXYING which discourages this).
- If you can identify why your editing was problematic, and can give a good indication that you'll no longer engage in those problematic behaviors, then I think it's almost certain that you will get unblocked after six months, provided you follow the provisions of the standard offer (mainly, no sockpuppetry). Try to think deeply on it and see what about your behavior should change; you have plenty of time to do so. Elli (talk | contribs) 20:03, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
I think there is truth to the idea that I have been caught up with writing for getting past AFC more than writing for notability.
If AFC is working correctly, the two should be identical, actually. AFC reviewers are asked to approve drafts that would have more than a 50% chance of surviving AFD. There's nothing wrong with trying to calibrate yourself to write AFC-compliant drafts :) –Novem Linguae (talk) 20:28, 14 December 2023 (UTC)- @Novem Linguae AFC has been rather dynamic so I'm not sure if my impression is uniform, but I've found getting things through AFC often requires longer articles with more sources but worse prose. Higher standard than AFD, but also skewed so several start or c-class articles will not pass AFC. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 21:03, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
- Having reviewed a reasonable number of your AFC drafts I can say that the majority I reviewed passed, or were only just the wrong side of the border. I have no concerns whether a draft is a stub, start class, or the very rare C class or higher. I simply need to see notability proven by verification in reliable independent sources, and no glaring "this will fail at AfD" items.
- Yes, the standard is marginally higher than for AfD, because we are asked to accept a draft which we view as having a better than 50% chance of surviving an immediate deletion process.
- Some reviewers find it hard to accept the borderline drafts, some do not.
- You may want to tune your drafting to be much better than the acceptance criteria prior to submitting (when your block is lifted, naturally), and to work on fewer drafts at any one time. 🇺🇦 FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 🇺🇦 22:24, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Novem Linguae AFC has been rather dynamic so I'm not sure if my impression is uniform, but I've found getting things through AFC often requires longer articles with more sources but worse prose. Higher standard than AFD, but also skewed so several start or c-class articles will not pass AFC. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 21:03, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
- @LEvalyn the thing that worries me is that if I wait 6 months to appeal the block, then I will have to wait another 6 months to appeal any editing restrictions. Because as I understand the 6 month rule works like a Consecutive sentence rather than a Concurrent sentence. I'd have to be active on wikipedia "succeeding" under the editing restrictions in order for them to be lifted. My understanding is that any other statement such as that I believe the editing restrictions were well intentioned but had unintentionally negative side effects to me would not be approved of. And likewise it's actually a race to be unblocked because if I waited six months then I'd ideallly get unblocked today and then,
- I'd like to take a six month break but if takinhg a six month break trranslates into me taking six months more time to get to restrictions being lifted I'd be more skeptical.
- My perception is that while I was making a lot of mistakes while editing, and some of which led to pretty serious problems. The restrictions that were imposed on me were quite well intentioned buit ultimately caused problems.. I think a straight 6 month imposition would have been good back then, or even a 6 month block, but I don't perceive it as being beneficial in the future.
- If the blocks and such were treated as concurrent and I could appeal restrictions while also appealing a block I'd just go for it and study Japanese as much as possible in the 6 months.But I am concerned that it is treated as concurrenty and as a result I need to get unblocked as soon as possible even if I do not want to participate at the time. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 12:45, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
- Personally, I don't believe there is anything you need to say or explain. And in fact, if you eventually want to request an unblock, that will probably go better if you have taken some time away from Wikipedia first. Take some rest. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 23:52, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- @Liz @LEvalyn honestly I am still a bit distraught over this. But does it seem like there is any testimony needed from me or similar for this? Otherwise I'd prefer to avoid stress by not doing anything today. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 23:27, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- I'm shocked, to be honest. I know this can happen if you refuse to drop the stick in a noticeboard discussion but I don't frequent AN/ANI any more so I don't know how you got to this point. I'll look into this tomorrow. Remember indefinite is not infinite. Liz Read! Talk! 04:40, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
Your draft article, Draft:Tagi Shrine
Hello, Immanuelle. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Tagi Shrine".
In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.
Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz Read! Talk! 03:54, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
Concern regarding Draft:簡
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Your submission at Articles for creation: Hotaka Shrine has been accepted
Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.
The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. Most new articles start out as Stub-Class or Start-Class and then attain higher grades as they develop over time. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.
If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk. Once you have made at least 10 edits and had an account for at least four days, you will have the option to create articles yourself without posting a request to Articles for creation.
If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider
.Thanks again, and happy editing!
F.Alexsandr (talk) 10:36, 14 December 2023 (UTC)Your submission at Articles for creation: Sarutahiko Shrine has been accepted
Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.
The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. Most new articles start out as Stub-Class or Start-Class and then attain higher grades as they develop over time. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.
If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk. Once you have made at least 10 edits and had an account for at least four days, you will have the option to create articles yourself without posting a request to Articles for creation.
If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider
.Thanks again, and happy editing!
Xegma(talk) 11:19, 14 December 2023 (UTC)