(Translated by https://www.hiragana.jp/)
Why the PS3's lack of backwards compatibility is upsetting [update 1] - Joystiq
The Wayback Machine - https://web.archive.org/web/20071011011015/http://www.joystiq.com:80/2007/10/06/why-the-ps3s-lack-of-backwards-compatibility-is-upsetting/#comments
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Why the PS3's lack of backwards compatibility is upsetting [update 1]

Due to popular demand from a previous editorial (this is a blog, after all, and editorializing does happen from time to time), we thought it best to clarify further why, exactly, we feel Sony's move to drop backwards compatibility from the 40GB PAL model was at best misguided and at worst cruel to its consumer base.

First off, the cost to Sony for including the software emulation is very minimal. Though some people have cited the Emotion Engine and Graphics Synthesizer, the combo chip was removed from the PAL design in late February 2007 and cost an estimated $27. Essentially, the software emulation has been running entirely on PS3 hardware for the full extent of its tenure in the PAL region. So that $27 that Sony is presumably saving by not using software backwards compatibility is misinformed.

Regarding PS One titles, Sony has told GameSpot that they will be compatible, which is a good sign. But why not extend those compatibility options to the PS2 library? As previously denoted, that software in its present form runs fine on PS3 hardware.

There has also been discussion about choice. For this, we want to remind the readers that the 40GB is currently only coming out in Europe, where their only other option is the soon-to-be-dropped (reaffirmed in a line from their recent press release) 60GB version. The 80GB model is not coming to PAL territories.

But perhaps it is a cost-cutting hardware issue that no one has seen. If that's the case, then Sony would be wise to say so, instead of highlighting the 65 PS3 titles reportedly able to justify the loss or downplaying the importance of backwards compatibility when, as recently as 2006 Sony's Phil Harrison said that "backwards compatibility, as you know from PlayStation One and PlayStation 2, is a core value of what we believe we should offer. And access to the library of content people have created, bought for themselves, and accumulated over the years is necessary to create a format. PlayStation is a format meaning that it transcends many devices -- PSOne, PS2 and now PS3."

Could the software be offered later as a download? That's a possibility, although it would beg the question why the company couldn't have added it originally (barring issues over the non-presence of the PS2 graphics synthesizer chip), as well as if that compatibility software would be provided for a nominal fee.

As it stands, no hardware deterrent has been revealed, and the public relations are doing nothing to remedy that error. Does adding the software during the production of the unit, particularly when other software like the operating system is being uploaded, cost that much more? We don't see it, and we're grasping at straws trying to find a reason for it. (Other than diverting PAL gamers' money from buying last-gen software to new-gen offerings.)

So what's the big deal - why does the backwards compatibility matter? The previously-mentioned "core value" quote from Phil Harrison best sums it up, that with the PS3 we are buying into the PlayStation brand and all that it entails. Gamers who pick up the 40GB model have lost access to over 8,000 titles - many of them the best gaming has to offer. The elephant in the room is that Sony could ween out backwards compatibility from all its available models over all regions. Should you care? We think so.

Update: With some help from Engadget Japan's Ittousai, we have found diagrams indicating the switch from Emotion Engine + Graphic Synthesizer chip to just a graphics synthesizer chip, implying the software emulation was partially hardware-supported (as noted by many commenters). If that's the case, then, the ability to download emulation software later may not be possible. We don't want to spread misinformation, so for further clarification we have contacted Sony for a definitive answer.

Regardless, the loss of backwards compatibility marks a paradigm shift in the PlayStation branding. If you buy a PS3, your connection to the previous generation - one that saw Sony reign mightily in the realm of console gaming - is severed. Does the cost of branding outweigh the financial benefit of losing a graphics chip?

Tags: 40-gb, 40gb, sony

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horngreen
horngreen
Oct 6th 2007
3:04PM
I've wondered if this version would state in big letters "NOT BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE WITH PS2 GAMES". Seems doubtful but I would think many of it potential buyers this Xmas would simply assume it was included. They will be in for a rude awakening. It would suck to get one and feel that the 65 not so great games they have are not enough to please, drop in a PS2 game from your library and get the not compatible screen. Might get some folks as upset as the 360s RROD.
Rususeruru
Rususeruru
Oct 6th 2007
3:24PM
You're right I also doubt the box will be clearly marked and you can add to that misinformation from the reseller on down. This should prove for some very interesting complaints in the coming months
3 hearts vote downvote upReport
Mr. P
Mr. P
Oct 6th 2007
3:43PM
The cheapest version of the PS3 is not backwards compatible? Gee, that sounds familiar. Oh, right. If you buy the cheapest 360 you need an additional $100 for the HDD in order to play Xbox 1 games. How easily we forget, fanboys.
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Benny
Benny
Oct 6th 2007
4:01PM
But MS didn't go on about how great they are for offering backwards compatibility. From the off we knew that BC was going to be minimal on the 360. What did Sony do? Lambaste Microsoft for not respecting their customers and then a year later do EXACTLY THE SAME THING.

Reminds me of that time when they said multiple SKUs was a bad idea...
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phattie
phattie
Oct 6th 2007
4:20PM
I think most people would take $100 off and no RRoD issues than BC... how many times do you want to return you box to Texas... use the $100 to buy a PStwo!

And, Joysyiq is wrong about the PS2 emulation being entirely software driven.. even in the 80gb unit, it has the graphics chip in there as well as other controlling chips.. way to get your facts wrong Joystiq.. you deserve a WTF award.
1 heart vote downvote upReport
Washawasha
Washawasha
Oct 6th 2007
4:31PM
Yow phattie I think you should chill the f*ck out and accept that your 600$ ps3 was a big waste of money. Maybe than you would realize that you are the one that needs to get his facts straight about the emulation.

You deserve a tard award!
2.5 hearts vote downvote upReport
phattie
phattie
Oct 6th 2007
4:35PM
Dont you have an RRoD xbox to ship back to M$?
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Washawasha
Washawasha
Oct 6th 2007
4:49PM
You sony fanboys really need to learn how to read.

"There has also been discussion about choice. For this, we want to remind the readers that the 40GB is currently only coming out in Europe, where their only other option is the soon-to-be-dropped (reaffirmed in a line from their recent press release) 60GB version. The 80GB model is not coming to PAL territories."

What's so hard to understand?

1 There never will be a 80GB model in europe
2 the 60GB model is about to be replaced by the crappy model

Sony is f*cking europe with this move
3 hearts vote downvote upReport
I've got to say....a big fahking
WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

It's too expensive! Who needs bluray? No upscaling DVD's! No rumble!

Now they have dropped the price. Bluray is about to win the HD optical disc format. It now upscales DVD's beautifully. And rumble is coming back. They drop BC and now the XBOTS are all of a sudden woken from their haloz dream.

Everybody and their brother has a friggin PS2. Calm down, I'm sure you'll still be able to play your old games if you really cared so much.

Who buys a new system to play their old games? If that's your number one selling point...you really shouldn't buy a new system.
Half a heart vote downvote upReport
phattie
phattie
Oct 6th 2007
4:59PM
And, how do you know that 80gb is not coming to Europe? Maybe not today... in the same press release. What about next week? Next month?

Do you even live in Europe or are you just crying because you cant play halo3 since your xbox bricked?
Half a heart vote downvote upReport
phattie: Don't you have a PS3 to play? Oh wait, you can't. There's no good games on it. Why don't you watch your blue rays or do some protein folding or something instead of pointing your finger at other people because they chose a better console than you did?
2.5 hearts vote downvote upReport
JimWack
JimWack
Oct 6th 2007
5:34PM
"Dont you have an RRoD xbox to ship back to M$?"


Running low on ammunition phattie?

Even though in most areas could return it for FREE, and get a new one FOR FREE , with only an annoying waiting time. So, unlike sony, they actually try to fix mistakes. "HEY FANS, YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR THE NEW RUMBLE CONTROLLER"

Now this?

"And, how do you know that 80gb is not coming to Europe?

Do you!?!?

"Joysyiq is wrong about the PS2 emulation being entirely software driven"

Can you prove otherwise?

I will say, the RROD, if someone was to scale it between 1 to 5 in crapfulness. It would probably get a 3.

While paying for a new rumble controller would maybe get an area of 2.
Then lieing about it, that gets more something.
However, mixed with this now?

I'm just glad that getting my PS3 early had its benefits for once.
3 hearts vote downvote upReport
ill trooper
ill trooper
Oct 6th 2007
5:42PM
It still runs Folding @ Home so what's the big ish?
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JimWack
JimWack
Oct 6th 2007
5:54PM
Indeed, that is a very good thing, the foding@home is.

However, leaving your ps3 on overnight with 150โ€“200watts isn't really that good if you worry about your electric bills.

Also, people have to remember to turn that on too. Which would probably mean most people would forget to do so.

Also, you can run folding@home on your pc.
http://folding.stanford.edu/
2 hearts vote downvote upReport
Anonim
Anonim
Oct 6th 2007
6:58PM
PS3 is too weak to emulate PS2?!
Even Xbox can emulate most Xbox titles, and Xbox is much stronger than PS2.

Even more proof that PS3 is WEAK. (as seen most games for PS3 have framerate problems (even exclusive titles like Lair and Heavenly Sword!) - RSX - graphics processor is WEAK)
And even Cell is not as powerfull as hyped by Sony!
2.5 hearts vote downvote upReport
Anonim
Anonim
Oct 6th 2007
7:00PM
*Even Xbox 360 can emulate most Xbox titles, and Xbox is much stronger than PS2.
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cc123
cc123
Oct 6th 2007
7:17PM
@Anonim

Your little comedy act about how weak the ps3 is doesn't work anymore. Why don't you go and figure out why Halo 3 didn't even hit HD resolution and STILL had a few framerate hiccups lol

You would think such a powerful beast of a console as the 360 would have the most important game of its entire lifespan run at 720p...guess not...

But I guess a few extra fps on those Ubisoft and EA ports are what really matter...huh? ha
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Anonim
Anonim
Oct 6th 2007
8:26PM
Halo 3 doesn't have framerate problems - I finished it without any hicups.

Unlike Heavenly Sword (v-synch mostly, serious slowdowns only with many characters on screen) and especially Lair
And of course nearly all multiplatform games with Madden included (less than 30fps - pathetic!):

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=78963
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=75856
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=74502
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cc123
cc123
Oct 6th 2007
8:39PM
"Halo 3 doesn't have framerate problems - I finished it without any hicups."

Riiiiiiiiight...

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/821/821911p5.html

"the occasional moments when the framerate jitters or there's some minor texture pop in"

"Despite a few moments of slowdown"

At 640p!! That's a whole 20% less pixels than 720p and they still couldn't get it! With no AA, now that's pathetic!!

You keep on fighting the good fight Anonim. =)


1 heart vote downvote upReport
phattie
phattie
Oct 6th 2007
8:53PM
If they put out Halo3 t 720p, it would have guaranteed 3 million RRoD units on the first day of release.
Half a heart vote downvote upReport
xpoutside
xpoutside
Oct 6th 2007
3:04PM
first post!
Neebs
Neebs
Oct 6th 2007
3:07PM
F-F-F-F-FAIL.
2 hearts vote downvote upReport
Poisoned Al
Poisoned Al
Oct 6th 2007
6:26PM
Even if you did get the first post, you'd still be a loser!
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NoHitHair
NoHitHair
Oct 6th 2007
3:05PM
Joystiq, you have no need to explain yourselves on an issue that is obvious to begin with. The only contrary arguments you will find in favor of Sony come from rabid fanboys devoid of any intelligent discourse to begin with.

Sony recently has had a consistent and transparant track record of repeated lying, smearing and antagonism of their consumers. This is hardly any different.

This topic is only unclear to those attempting to validate their $500-$600 purchase. Stop feeding into rabid fanboyism claims.
copa
copa
Oct 6th 2007
3:15PM
Agreed. Sony has slammed Microsoft for having less than 100% backward-compatibility, using rumble technology in their controllers, and for using a multi-SKU distribution model.

That is, before they dropped backward compatibility, hacked in rumble midway through their console lifecycle, and ran a shell game of bait-and-switch SKUs and clearance sales.

Microsoft screwed up on the whole RROD thing, and Nintendo... well, Nintendo hasn't done a whole lot wrong. But Sony has such an established pattern of lying and incompetence over the last two years, that there are a lot of us who have just tuned them out completely.
3 hearts vote downvote upReport
Mr Khan
Mr Khan
Oct 6th 2007
3:31PM
Nintendo's pulled their share of crap, just haven't been called out on it

Why no DVD compatibility, why Friend Codes (ok they've been called out on this one, early and often)

Nintendo's just living in PR heaven right now, everything they touch turns to gold (and recall i'm a Nintendo fan, others would say less generous things)

But this strikes me as the same kind of senselessness as Friend Codes, there literally is no logical explanation, whatever line of thought you follow
2.5 hearts vote downvote upReport
sheppy2.0
sheppy2.0
Oct 6th 2007
3:34PM
Actually, they are milking the debate quite a bit, and they still refuse to check their factual accuracy. In the case of Ross Miller who continues to drag this point across in this quote.

"Though some people have cite the Emotion Engine and Graphics Synthesizer, both of those pieces of hardware were removed from the PAL design in late February 2007 and cost an estimated $27."

Europes 60GB does, in fact, have the Graphics Synthesizer. Like the 80GB model or the revision models released in Korea. Sony pulled the combo chip, but the GS remains. And according to several programmers I know, most of the SE coding calls for specific handling from the GS. So this software solution they claim exists in fact doesn't. Is it something they could add? Certainly. Is it something that would be ready day one? Well, no. I mean, 23% of the game library is effected negatively when it has the GS. Imagine that number without the crutch.

Plus, as I said it before, this is Sony Europe. You may as well be talking to Dennis Dyack about PS3 plans. They know shit and it shows.

3 hearts vote downvote upReport
JET
JET
Oct 6th 2007
3:53PM
OK, I'll try to offer an intelligent reason to nix BC:

Software emulation carries with it its own inherent problems; namely, that the number of successfully emulated games is not 100%. As of version 1.6, the number of fully supported games was about 35% (since Joystiq like dredging up old quotes so much, take a look at their negative report of PS3's software emulation here: http://www.joystiq.com/2007/03/20/breaking-down-the-euro-ps3s-backward-compatiblity/). That means that people have to be continually assigned to working on improving BC to improve that number. But no matter how good it gets, you'll still have customers with PS2 games that don't work. That generates customer frustration, service calls, and other drains on resources that could and probably really should be put to better use.

Sony got dinged big time for making their system too expensive. They're pulling things that add to the price. Removing hardware BC saves them money on manufacturing; removing software BC saves them money on support and development. It doesn't matter what an executive said two years ago; it matters that customers want PS3 to be cheaper and Sony is reponding to the demand.

But like this story points out, if BC is important to you then you should buy a 60GB now before it disappears.

JET
2.5 hearts vote downvote upReport
i think i'll just keep the ps2 and skip ps3

maybe backwards compat will be back in for the ps4? lol
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Egster
Egster
Oct 7th 2007
5:47AM
lol it's rather the fanboys of MS that dominate this site both news writers and commenters. These nonsensical and hypocritical newsposts are just an example.

1 heart vote downvote upReport
bobobanana
bobobanana
Oct 6th 2007
3:06PM
As far as I know, there were 2 chips (EE and GS) being used for backwards compatibility in the original models. The European version had one of the chips taken out (still has the GS chip), and the other chip (Emotion Engine) was emulated through software. This became the case with the 80GB version in the US. This new 40GB PS3 apparently has both chips taken out, thus requiring Sony to emulate the GS chip as well. So I guess they could add backwards compatibility if they did that, but assuming that they won't add backwards compatibility because they are just assholes is wrong.
Ahh, what a delicious flamebait =)
Trev
Trev
Oct 6th 2007
10:30PM
I'm giving you a + for realizing it was flamebait and not being a troll.
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Jouten
Jouten
Oct 7th 2007
3:02AM

So I guess the Nintendo Wii is King of the Konsoles since it can emulate/play Nintendo NES through Gamecube games AND it's competition's own games too (SEGA/Hudson) ;)

I guess the 360 is close but you have to admit, what the Nintendo managed to achieve with emulation/bc is pretty darn awesome as compared to the other consoles.
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yellowtexan
yellowtexan
Oct 6th 2007
3:06PM
Ummm...

According to Wikipedia's entry (I know everybody edits this crap so it could unreliable), only the Emotion Engine were removed from the European versions. The PS2 graphics chips were still in the the Euro PS3 just not the CPU. The CPU was software emulated. Wikipedia's source for that information is GameIndustry.biz/Eurogamer, which are pretty reliable. The new Euro PS3s removed both of the PS2 CPU and GPU.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=26520
dru
dru
Oct 6th 2007
8:08PM
so, what? that would mean only the EE chip would have to be readded to the 40gb model, in which case the cost would be even less than $27 (my guess would be, what -- half as much?). what's the big deal Sony?


also, i think tihs post further illustrates that joystiq is NOT rabidly anti-sony. um, they just mentioned how many of the PS1 and PS2 games are the best that gaming has to offer.
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Chad
Chad
Oct 6th 2007
3:07PM
my question is, will sony continue to update and support the software based emulation on the previously released machines now that they are phasing it out of newer models? This would logically seem to be the only place that the software emulation (which is already developed and deployed) could continue to cost the company money and thereby allow them to bring the price down. If this is the case, I suspect some extremely unhappy sony customers in the near future.
copa
copa
Oct 6th 2007
3:16PM
"Will sony continue to update and support the software based emulation on the previously released machines now that they are phasing it out of newer models?"

Come on. Seriously, what do you think?
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Snukadaman
Snukadaman
Oct 6th 2007
4:57PM
I think it all makes sense now that you look at the big picture...start with europe and cut ps2 support so they can focus on other regions and cut it as well...like most sony fanboys say.."just buy a ps2" or "just buy the 80 gig" which means dont focus on what we take out..focus on buying more sony products and the first ps3's no one would buy in the first place. again...people who call this bitching are people who allready own ps3's now we await what happens in North America.
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Efren
Efren
Oct 6th 2007
3:07PM
Here's a much easier explanation s to why it's upsetting:

Because gamers want it and it sucks that they took it away.
AceMilo
AceMilo
Oct 6th 2007
3:07PM
Sony really shot themselves in the foot with this. If sony never includes backwards compatability in the ps3 in the first place, they'd be fine, or if the ps3 was more successful no one would care. In the first year of release, ppl wanted backwards compatability updates, but over the last year no one has really cared anymore since there are so many great 360 games. The ps3, however, does not have the software library to back themselves up, so they absolutely NEED ps2 compatability to survive. They say they have 65 games, and no gamer would consider that enough. Take out the outdated sports games, and you're probably down to around 50, and take out the ones that got awful reviews and you're probably down to about 30. Can 30 decent to good games carry a system? Hell no. Can hundreds of good ps2 games help it, absolutely. Sony claims in another quote that they dropped the price because they listened to their customers. I don't think ANY ps3 customer or future ps3 customer would want bc removed.
Brendon
Brendon
Oct 6th 2007
4:41PM
Sony ran out of feet to shoot long ago. I think they must be up to their nose by now.
3 hearts vote downvote upReport
SuMtOnE
SuMtOnE
Oct 6th 2007
3:10PM
www.N4G.com

This is to dispel some confusion among potential consumers mind. Although the 40 gig PS3 isnt backwards compatible with ps2 games (AT THE MOMENT) it can fully emulate all PS1 games.

However look forward to firmwire updates which would make software emulation of PS2 games possible on PS3.

This is what BIZ DAILY is reporting :-

"GameDaily BIZ also contacted SCEE spokesman Nick Sharples who told us, "We have made clear on many occasions that our priority is on developing innovative new features and services for PS3 and not on backwards compatibility. The 40GB model no longer contains any elements of the PS2 chip set which powered backwards compatibility in previous models, and is therefore only compatible with PS one titles."
MasterInsan0
MasterInsan0
Oct 6th 2007
4:23PM
So Sony Europe and Sony Japan and Sony USA all have different priorities? That's a great way to run things.
3 hearts vote downvote upReport
that's the sony way
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Mark
Mark
Oct 6th 2007
8:56PM
Please don't quote anything from N4G.com...I'm a fan of all consoles, but that site is such shite. For some odd reason, it's completely overrun with fanboys (predominately Sony fanboys) and people just submit whatever crap opinion they can find on the internet (despite the validity of the claims) that supports whatever system they have. It hurts my eyes trying to read the comments there; which subsequently causes thousands of my brain cells to die when I try to understand their "logic". It's awesome in concept, but downright awful in practice. Can anyone tell me why it's such a horrible fanboy-driven site?
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Andrew Hagan
Andrew Hagan
Oct 6th 2007
3:13PM
I haven't heard anyone discuss this, but what about the reduced number of USB ports.

there have been rumors that Rock Band's wireless guitars require USB plugins, one per guitar. What about the drums and mic? If all four parts required USB ports, will the 40G be capable of playing Rock Band? (without buying a extra USB hub, because mainstream gamers are not gonna do that).

As for back compatability, how exactly am I gonna get my God of War and Shadow of the Colossus on?
So you think gamers would spend $160 on a single game, but not buy a $5 USB hub? Four USB ports is convenient, sure (though I've only ever used 1), but since even a single USB port can be expanded with a hub, multiple ports is hardly a necessity.
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HB96st
HB96st
Oct 6th 2007
3:13PM
Wow.. Grimy... And ya'll still support sony?? Wow..

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