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TIMESTAMPS
The Wayback Machine - https://web.archive.org/web/20110517083313/http://base.teamxbox.com:80/43202/
I'm going to settle this, 1937 technology is out dated, so modern headphones better the DT48. Why would you want to go backwards? & other FUD.
The Violin has been around since the 9th century. Are you going to tell me modern violins are much better violins from 100-300 years ago? I'm sure. The piano has been around for 300 yrs. Does that mean they are inferior & obsolete to modern piano's? Vintage acoustic instruments are highly thought after by many 'audiophiles.' But somehow a headphone made in 1937 is obsolete & inferior to modern headphones? Audiophiles cannot pic & choose.. Some of the most revered tubes are from the 50's & 60's. CRT is still the standard for broadcasting & movie production. Maggots are still used in hospitals to clean dead flesh off wounds..if using a electronic tool there is always a chance of error. Not with the maggots. The greatest architects of our time could not build a better pyramid. Is there a better pain killing drug then Morphine? Just how old is this? & is still the standard to relieve severe pain. Martial Arts is very old, are modern martial arts better? More effective?
So, please, ignore those who diminish the DT48 as a aftert though due to their age.
Headfi is spiraling downwards into a place members don't want to tread. Headfi is losing respect, trust, & leaving long time members asking the question. Monster? Why? Jude has his, as Lenin termed, 'useful idiots, who will stand by his side no matter what he does to more & more make headfi the butt of jokes & less of a serious site for audiophile minded individual. Members expect better then Monster, Skull Candy, Bose. They can find that at Best Buy.
Jude made the Cardinal sin of not listening to the people who make Headfi matter, the members themselves. To say Monster is hated is a understatement. But Jude see's a opportunity for more money. Damn integrity. This is all about Jude. Monster's practices are as low, sleezy & corrupt as a company can get.
Head Monster, Lee, sues anyone or small company that uses the word monster. With a unlimited amount of revenue Monster plays hardball threatening to sue anyone or company who dares uses the name monster. Monster can do this cause they have the resources for the lawyers etc. The people & small companies can't afford to keep up finanically & give in. Some is due out of simple fear & intimidation.
They lie about their cables, over blow their specs, & use junk science to justify it. They include 'features' on their HDMI packaging that every other HDMI cable manufacturer doesn't need to include. It's a sales pitch. Marketing 101 to confuse & entice Joe 6pack.
When it comes to Monster you just can't pick & choose, supporting their headphones is a poor excuse to support & feature Monster on Headfi's front page with a gimmick to sell Monster headphones.When you align yourself with Monster you accept their horrid past & baggage as well.
Jude's ego is getting out of hand, & he will like any companies products that financially supports Headfi, meaning, um, Jude.. So all you paying members are in fact supporting Monster as well. It's time Headfi elders say enough is enough & boycott Headfi.
T1 VS the DT48A
Some early impressions so far after 3 days with the T1...
There are some pluses and minuses...
Pluses:
- Spot on tonal balance, with no frequency emphasis over the all range. Great continuity and subjective linearity. Better than HD800 in this respect (no tilted highs).
- Total absence of distortion even at high volumes, leading to a very clean sound and perfectly focused imaging. Instrument separation is trully amazing with each instruments perfectly identified in its spatial position. Total absence of blurring. Quite impressive. Returning to the DT48A feels like congested haha. The first time I ever experience that. And I never thought I would write that !
Minuses:
- Timbrical accuracy is simply pure audiofool crap. The voicing of this headphone is simply way off. Nothing sounds like real life. Highs feels metallic (cymbals, violins), with a continuous impression of artificial metallic sound (tzing tzing). Even voices are rendered with a clear touch of metallic presences, appearing colder and harder than what they should. I really have no clue to what is causing that. Internal material used maybe (high rigidity plastic, etc...). Forget about the true blue sound. What a shame when we both know Beyer can perfectly do it. But I guess selling is the main point and Beyer did sacrifice true sound for a more attractive and impressive "hifi" sound.
- Low end is lacking clearly texture and microdynamic. Good presence and linearity, extends well, but lacks refinement. Feels like a subwoofer not properly set up. Listening to a double bass with the T1 is frustrating... It is sucked out of its life and seem to play just a handfull of notes and variations. Really disappointing. I'll pick the DT48 shy bass response any day over this.
- Details is fair and above average but nothing to write about. Lacks the ultimate sense of space in recordings and reverbs of studio, or even subtle variations and texture of instruments (microdynamic ?)... Maybe because it is an open design and will inherently offer less low level details than a good closed headphone. But I feel there is something lacking in the low resolution level, just as if engineers have focused more on the big picture (lack of distorsion, play loud without blurring) of the music rather than small nuances in it.
Neutral:
- Soundstage is not very wide in the center with many instruments packed together but extends a lot as you move further from the center I guess due to the inclination of the drivers. Good depth but the soundstage feels stretched from right to left. A bit difficult to adujst mentally to the overall picture, as it feels acoustic dimensions are not well preserved. But I guess this is something you can get used to in the long run. On the other side, within its limitations, the T1 is able to convey the different dimensions of recordings wether they are intimate recording with very close up mics or large scale orchestra which appear pushed back further on the scene. Not a true chameleon like DT48 is this respect, less coherent image, but still more faithfull than many headphones I have tried (including the HD800).
So overall impressions are not overwhelming... Quite a disappointment in fact. Beyer had the opportunity to combine the strengths of the DT48 (low level details, timbrical accuracy) with the strengths of the T1 (absence of distortion, precision in imaging), and could have hit a home run. But no, they preferred listening to their marketing department.
The DT48 simply defies logic, rhyme & reason. They are dynamic but have a distinct sound all of their own that cannot be categorized. They were created during a time when 5.1 SS, hi end headphones/speakers were merely a dream that was not possible in 1937. The thinking was different. Beyers wanted to reproduce audio as accurately as possible. Terms like audiophiles & out of head presentation & SS were not even conceived yet. The idea was simple & to the point. Being the first allows for many positives. No expectations. No marketing concerns or spreading hype. Not driven by revenue. Beyers just wanted to make a hi fi stereo headphone. The engineering was brilliant and way before it's time. No corners were cut. Talent, desire, Intelligence & ingenuity made up for the lack of technology many take for granted today.
In most cases the first of anything is improved a great deal over time. The first airplane, car, TV, telephone, computer, etc has improved by leaps & bounds. The DT48 defies this trend by standing the test of time. Even today with more advanced technology the DT48 is just as good if not better then any dynamic headphone currently in production, or out of production. They are a technical marvel still used by scientist, ENT's, field recording, hospitals, Studio work, & doing advanced testing. The above want the best for their application. Their work & data depends on it. Money is no cost, yet they routinely go to the DT48. A technology from 1937. Skeptics who claim they use the DT48 cause they are cheaper are missing the point. If you are doing testing that requires the up most accuracy, you want a device that will do just that. Cost doesn't even enter the equation when studios spend 20,000 on certain NAGRA recording equipment for mastering movie sound tracks etc.
When I first got the DT48 I knew they were special. My only taste of ultra high end headphones was the legendary K1000. The sound reminded me of the K1000. Later I compared the DT48 to the ultra high end HE6, & the DT48 held their own. I just knew they were in the same league with the best of the best in the dynamic world. I would wager only a handful of headphones, dynamic, ortho, electro, that are more resolving & detailed. (Detail varies from DT48 depending on type & era) The Sony Qualia 010 being one, & regarded as the most detailed dynamic headphone ever created.
I started 'hyping' the DT48's as I found a true gem in the rough that only a handful of people at head fi knew about. I was meet with skepticism, anger, ridicule, insults & on occasion personal attacks. This happened on Headcase.org as well. I was even being mocked for stated quotes by Beyers themselves. One member sent me a PM attacking me. I was even attacked by a mod. I was labeled as nuts & a Beyer shill. I don't work for Beyers. One person accused me of inflating the post count in the large DT48 thread. He stated half the post in the are by me. Well, I have been banned for 3-5 months now, & the thread is still going strong. I feel justified, as others are now praising the DT48 as I do. & many give them the biggest compliment a dynamic headphone can get.. Being compared to electrostats. Just check my DT48 praise thread. One member scoffed at the idea, stating every headphone gets praise, but not every headphone is 73 yrs old.
Why the hate:
The DT48 goes against the grain. They are not ashamed to sound like a headphone, & not sound like a speaker system. No angled drivers, out of head experience. You get sound from the right & left channel that is in your head. This alone brings out the snobbery that Head Fi is becoming known for. I find it very ironic that people put down a headphone for sounding like a headphone. So people who love headphones get angry when it doesn't sound like a speaker system.
More to hate. The bass is more accurate then most. Another audiophile hypocrisy. Audiophiles who claim to want neutrality & accuracy prefer boosted bass.. So the DT48 gets slammed for that too. The DT48 doesn't coddle the listener or perform audio tricks to give you a wow experience & get the listeners attention. The DT48 is the total opposite. They give you a true blue sound without the fluff or any added colorization to make the music sound better. The DT48 stripes the recording & artist to their bare essentials & exposes them for better or worse. They make the recording & artist make the music pleasurable.. Not the other way around. Isn't this what audiophiles strive for? Their sound is the plain jane girl of the headphone world.
These qualities gets under the skin of many at head fi, & brings out the worst in some people with comments like.. "They suck". "They are the worst headphones ever". There is even anger towards those who bought them off recommendations & those who like the DT48. It's like your insulting them. I never seen such hate for a headphone & the people who enjoy them.
Why the threat
The DT48 goes against everything the majority of audiophiles believe in & makers of headphones.. No headphone company will dare make a headphone like the DT48. The DT48 is more durable and made better then any headphone ever created. All steel, nuts & bolts, no glue or plastic anywhere. This embarrasses every hi end headphone ever created. No cutting corners which headphone makers like Sennheiser, Denon, Grado, Sony, etc do on a regular basis with their hi end headphones. & these high end models cost more then the DT48. Even the much heralded HP1/HP2 (1,400-1,800 on the used market) uses hot glue, & according to one prominent engineer & cable maker, is not as well made as the DT48, & doesn't protect their drivers as well. The DT48 drivers are in cased in a 1/2 to 1 inch aluminum housing. No headphone regardless of cost does this. How does it feel to own a high end headphone like the GS1000 that falls to pieces & cost 1,000? Another reason to hold animosity towards the DT48, when a headphone 73 yrs old is more durable them hi end headphones of today, & can be had used between 25.00-150.00 dollars. It's shameful audiophiles let these companies get away with this. Another reason to dismiss the DT48, jealousy. How many headphones can survive being run over by a car & still function? End of story about hi end durability. Owning a 1-3 grand headphone less durable then the DT48 would piss me off too..
Every major headphone company comes out with a 'new' & advanced technology to bring headphone sound to the pinnacle of state of the art ingenuity. Read descriptions of the AKG701/2/Sony SA5000/HD800 (biggest dynamic drivers ever!! 56mm) This seems like great stuff, but the DT48 blows holes through these so called advancements in headphone technology. After hearing the DT48 exclusivly for a few weeks you begin to realize it's just market BS, & even made up Jargon.. The 701/2 uses 'HD drivers', yet the DT48 is more detailed with greater clarity? They hail their new technology as a wonder, but can't hold a candle to the simple & discrete DT48, that lacks fancy terms & FUD that others need to sell their hi end headphones.
A Beyer manager once told me that Beyers doesn't spend 1 cent marketing the DT48, & consider how cheap the parts are, the DT48 easily makes a profit. Name me a quality headphone that get's no marketing money, & stays in production for many, many yrs.. The DT48 forces people to look at the bigger picture, that many flagship headphones don't come close to the technical prowess that the DT48 has in spades. It's not good, when 1937 technology out performs modern & state of the art technology. It makes their flagship headphones look vastly over priced I think many people & headphone companies wish the DT48 would go away or stay under their rock, which they had been before I came along.. The cat is out of the bag. The DT48 is here is stay.
Do you think closed headphones could have an inherent advantage over open headphones when it comes to details retrieval, especially those with great sealing characteristics ?
The remaining ambient noise floor is almost never below 40dB. Wouldn't that naturally reduce the perceived resolution and details in a heapdhone ?
The DT48 are extremely detailed (easily superior to me to the HD800) but at the same time, also provide the best natural noise cancelation blocking out all external sounds, giving very often this sensation of listening in an anechoic room. Coincidence or consequence ? What do you think ?
My take. I know one owner who feels the 800 is more detailed. Another owner feels they are on par detail wise.. One person who auditioned the HD800, said the HD800 could give you the impression of better detail due to their treble emphasis in the higher frequencies & greater instrument separation. I never heard the HD800 personally, but just having this debate is remarkable considering we are talking about 73 yr old technology against state of the art technology. Common sense would tell you the 800 is easily more detailed, but when talking about the DT48, common sense gets thrown out.
I personally think that the DT-48 treble is more tilted (down) that the HD-800 is tilted up. I also do not think the DT-48 conveys "subtle and low level intonation in mids and vocals" better than the HD-800 or, for that matter, conveys sound-field as well as the HD-800. In fact, other than midrange tonality (where the DT-48 is fully the HD-800 equal), when doing analytical (analyzing headphones, not music) listening the HD-800 "wins" most of the various audiophile categories. But...
I have previously made the statement that comparing the DT-48 to anything else is futile, that they are in a category of their own. And this is why (roughly, metaphorically and IMHO):
HD-800 DT-48 (ratings out of 5)
Bass extension: 4.5 3.5
Bass clarity: 4.8 4.4
Midrange tonality: 4.7 4.8
Treble extension: 4.6 3.8
Treble clarity 4.7 4.5
Sound-field 4.8 3.6
Mathematical average based on analytical listening: HD-800: 4.68 DT-48: 4.12
Listening rating based on overall sonics and musical value: HD-800: 4.7 DT-48: 4.5
So the DT-48, despite it's weaknesses, as a musical whole come mighty close to the newer (and considerably more expensive) 'phone in overall "quality". In my view, this is why many people who give the DT-48 just a cursory listen come up disappointed and wonder what others see in them. It takes time for the DT-48 more subtle qualities to come to the fore to neutralize (in a large degree) their weaknesses.
To me, the Bard said (pretentious? moi?), "Comparisons are odious". I would say this applies especially where the DT-48 is concerned. They are what they are without reference to what other phones are designed to be and are best appreciated in that sense.
I think it's time to apply for KBI's reinstatement. To me, he was an overall benefit to this forum and I for one don't believe anything he said here could have been all that bad considering some of the swill I see posted.
Kevin
Pure golden words. It is still to be seen if KBI is interest on this.
Any way I endorse the appeal 100%.
A
We will trully miss you KBI. It is very unlikely anyone is going to put as much efforts as you did to give the DT48 a deserved place - imo - in the pantheon of headphones.
Shamu
Others were deleted. Very low Head Fi. Members who miss me can't say there last good byes & express their concerns about my contributions. What TOA did they break? Very classless.. & I'm still waiting to know why I was banned. Your MOD FAQ's are a joke. How about you follow your own guidelines. You bunch of schmucks. Jude. Voltron. Erik. Jpeg. Currwong. I'd love to meet anyone of you at a meet personally, to see how far you go to avoid me, especially Jude, who has a little mans complex.
173 pics.. & more info on these headphones then anywhere on the net. Guaranteed. Join. Become a fan. Read why these headphones are still in production after 73 yrs.
I marketed your DT48 on headfi, not with any interior motive, but because I love the DT48 so much. I put the DT48 on the map. Others might have brought it up, but none had the desire or dedication to make these headphones known. I am personally responsible for the sale of many DT48 headphones. Check your DT48 numbers. I will guarantee you more were sold between 08-10, then in 05-07. I also own many DT48 headphones & my passion is unlimited. I will take any job, even as a intern to get my foot in the door. Take this seriously. I live in CA. & don't forget about the large DT48 thread. One of the largest on Head Fi. My email address is coolbubbaice@yahoo.com