Feb 16th 2012, 18:09 by A.U.
“DEAFENING SILENCE” was the phrase chosen by Joseph Daul, chairman of the European Parliament’s biggest party. He was describing the Dutch government’s response to a controversial website set up by Geert Wilders's far-right Freedom Party that solicits complaints about east and central Europeans living and working in the Netherlands. Mr Daul invited Mark Rutte, the Dutch prime minister, to break his silence and explain his government’s position in front of the parliament.
Actually, “dismissive laughter” may have been a panfairer description of Mr Rutte’s reaction to the website. Less than a week after it was set up he was asked to distance himself from it. He refused, saying that his government could not react to every stunt pulled off by political parties.
But there is something that sets this particular party aside: it keeps Mr Rutte’s fragile government afloat in parliament, giving it a majority of a single vote. The Freedom Party's backbench support for the minority coalition is detailed in a document accompanying the coalition agreement formed after 2010's parliamentary election.
The finer details of this complicated construction have been lost on the ten ex-communist countries inside the European Union. This week ambassadors from the ten in The Hague asked Mr Rutte and other Dutch party leaders to distance themselves from what they called a “deplorable” and “clearly discriminatory” initiative.
The website in question gives visitors an opportunity to report various types of nuisance, from noise to drunkeness, by migrants from these countries, as well as “loss of employment” suffered at their hands. As a carrier of a Polish passport resident in the Netherlands, I duly reported myself as having stolen a job, and can confirm that the site sends an efficient confirmation of receipt.
The Freedom Party promises to present the results of its efforts to the Dutch social welfare minister, and to ask for an adequate response from the government.
Once known exclusively for his fiery anti-Muslim rhetoric, Mr Wilders has started to diversify his populist repertoire. In recent months he has been foraying into various forms of Euroscepticism, including criticism of Greek bail-outs and a recent pandering to growing anti-Polish sentiment.
As he has previously done with immigrants from Turkey and Morocco, with his latest effort Mr Wilders builds on a number of justified grievances against a limited number of social ills brought by immigration. Such tactics, combined with his antiestablishment rhetoric, have previously proven a potent political recipe. In 2010's election the Freedom Party took 15% of the vote, giving it a kingmaker position in parliament.
Mr Wilders's message has begun to permeate mainstream politics. Even the usually moderate Christian Democrats have, since the last election, proclaimed the “failure of a multicultural experiment" and the “right of the Dutch people to feel at home in their own country.”
More importantly, it has also permeated Dutch policymaking. In exchange for Mr Wilders’s support for its harsh budget cuts, the government has agreed to stricter immigration policies and a number of symbolic anti-Muslim measures, such as a ban on wearing the niqab.
But Mr Wilders has also been losing support in the polls. A fall of about 2.6% may not seem much, but a for a movement that had grown used to steady growth it has become a cause for nervousness. (This may help explain the decision to create the controversial website.)
But this droop in the polls may have more to do with personality than policy. Mr Wilders's views remain popular, as shown by the steady rise in support for the left-wing Socialist Party, whose leader, Emile Roemer, insisted this week that he fully “understood the sentiment” behind the Freedom Party's website. The two parties look set to join battle to win the populist vote. Some 49% of Dutch voters say they would in principle be ready to vote for one of the two parties.
For a long while members of the Dutch political establishment have tolerated Mr Wilders’s wayward populism, wanting to show that they are listening to voters who feel like they are on the losing side of the globalisation debate, or that they have been left to their own devices in neglected immigrant neighbourhoods.
But there is a thin line between the desire to demonstrate openness to all voices and the tacit endorsement of unabashed hate-mongering and discrimination. No matter Mr Rutte's personal feelings about the website, if he fails to speak out the broader European public will make up its mind on which side he stands.
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Wow... this is definitely not the right article and forum to be Dutch (as I am). Most reactions aren't even about the article (all I am missing is the drug thing and the world cup final -our slightly too enthuastic physical approach of the match-). Anyway, please do note that the profile of the average Wilders/PVV voter is not one most Dutchmen envy and that most people with an IQ over 70 still think he is an idiot....Thank you.
Hmm, I wonder how can an average Dutchman tell that an individual behaving badly in the street is actually a citizen one of the Eastern European states?
Would a Dutchman be able to distinguish between a Polish speaker from a Russian speaker? Or an Estonian from Finnish?
Immigrants problem is actually an economical problem.Having Greece be bankrupted, why this country must not be allowed to send its 1m/more immigrants to "AAA" granted EU countries?NL-Are you ready for this?
In better days, opportunists that urge suspicion and attacks on a disenfranchised minority were seen as vile and nearly criminal, but no longer. Such is people like Wilders, the SNP and the hundreds of race crimes against english that happen in scotland with increasing frequency and so many other small-world, little racist people are busy driving wedges in to the stupid class in every nation. And the economy ultimately suffers for the inability of a knowledge economy to synergise across class and nation state borders freely. Where would the US economy be without the immigrants that have driven silicon valley and their collegiate non-class-warfare ability to collaborate. And look at the loser nations that have lost those very same emigrants for their racist backward economic feudalism. Welcome to the new europe, learned nothing from 2 world wars, with new eugenics on the rise; praise the blue-eyed, tall folk-warrior, Gert the insipid; shame on the corporate media for not exposing the true nature of these tossers.
As long as the community being targeted by Mr. Wilders and his ilk was Muslims and other brown-skinned immigrants, The Economist tolerated it as an expression of the will of the citizens of a “liberal western democracy”. But now that Mr. Wilders has trained his guns on fellow (East) Europeans, The Economist could remain silent no more. So, it comes out with this warning – “But there is a thin line between the desire to demonstrate openness to all voices and the tacit endorsement of unabashed hate-mongering and discrimination. No matter Mr Rutte's personal feelings about the website, if he fails to speak out the broader European public will make up its mind on which side he stands.”
The editorial board of TE had no such concerns when the victims did not look like "one of us”.
can you point to anywhere in our coverage where we have endorsed attacks on Muslims or "other brown-skinned immigrants" (actually Muslims not necessarily immigrants, nor necessarily brown-skinned, but that's your stereotype, not ours). Your insinuation is as hurtful as it is inaccurate. Please justify or apologise.
The charge is not that the economist advocated violence, but that it did not speak up against anti-immigrant talk when it was only directed at non-europeans. Saying that you did not advocate violence does not answer that charge by un hmmm...
total nonsense. We have regularly criticised Wilders. try doing some research before spraying these allegations around. EG read
http://www.economist.com/node/17200240
Tolerating is not the same as endorsing (thanks Damn Dirty Ape). Remaining silent is not the same as endorsing. Please address the criticism instead of distorting it.
Yes - Muslims are not necessarily immigrants, nor necessarily brown-skinned. But you know as well as everyone else that most Muslims in Europe are brown-skinned and immigrants. If you call that stereotyping, The Economist should stop publishing, because most of your stories paint people and countries with broad brushes - Americans, Chinese, seniors, the unemployed, the rich etc. You can always apply same criticisms of "not necessarily" to all of these groups you write about. But that does not seem to stop you.
Please give me some time and I will cite instances to support my claim above.
the Economist writes all that blabber about a website but it doesn't give us a lnk nor does it tell us where to find the website so we can have our own opinion - I found it all in the Freedom's Party site http://www.pvv.nl and then i psoted a link to that famous website i can't mention - and i can't mention because Economist warned me it was agianst their rules . That's RICH . Economist writes about a website but no one is supposed to go there for a peep.
No wonder the reputation of this paper is turning bad, bad like pink liberal.
sorry, website is now linked to. No need to be rude
Not all of us readers care that it be linked to or given more notice than it deserves.
I a very good book in Dutch relesed in ...poland 1000 yeard of polish - Netherlands frienship// mayby this idiot should read it first. I am Polish, i did a lot for netherlandse people as nurse... well. This politics create hostility and show very ugly face of so called democracy. Mr Wilders i am invite you to Poland before situation between Varsaw and Den Haag will be even more frozen, one man did a lot of harm.
I as a Dutch person am deeply ashamed that populists who use the same tactics as the Nazi's are once again in the driving seat in the Netherlands. And we (the Dutch people) freely chose them. And they are the biggest party. UNBELIEVABLE!!!
And we do not have a lame excuse that we are poor. We are almost the richest country in the world.
Millions died fighting the Nazi's and now we are once again doing it ourselves (altough we must never forget that the Dutch were the best collaborators in the second world war and a greater percentage of the Jewish people were killed here then anywhere else due to cooperation with the Nazi's of the Dutch). SHAME ON YOU ALL.
As a Dutch person myself, I could not agree more with your sense of shame at the whole mess. Unfortunately, your zeal in providing a background to which to compare your righteous indignation is ridiculous. The PVV is not the biggest party, and their brand of sad populism is not Nazism. Please do not debase the sacrifices of indeed millions of people in the fight against Nazism by immediately comparing any political act you find morally reprehensive to Nazism.
This hyperbolic reaction is exactly what has kept the fears of those people in Dutch society who are on the receiving end of globalisation out of the political arena. I'm not saying that it's pretty, but pretending these peoples' loss of a sense of identity and role in the globalizing world should not be discussed because it's all Nazism is exactly what drives them to support demagogues like Wilders.
You should know Poland accepted thousands of emigrants from Flanders, the Netherlands and Germany through the last 1000 years.
There are thousands of artifacts of Dutch settlement in Poland.
Millions of Germans, Flanders, Dutchmen, English, Scottish, Swedish and Austrians moved to Poland through the last thousand years.
We're tolerant. You aren't.
Poland has always been known for its tolerance, stretching back into Medieval times in which Polish kings accepted many of the Jews who were kicked out of other European countries. You would think the Dutch wouldn't be so intolerant considering the abysmal treatment they received from the British, but what can you do...people forget history.
When did the British treat the Dutch abysmally? When they deposed their lawful sovereign and installed a Dutchman as king in 1688?
Its a popular myth that the British disposed their own king. In fact the Dutch invaded England militarily and used propaganda flyers to convince the population they were invited. Then they installed their own Stadholder William III as king. The whole operation was financed by the States-General in Holland.
But then British historians omitted some details because well, they thought the whole episode was very embarassing from an English point of view.
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Dunno. Liberating their country from above-mentioned Nazis? People forget history, obviously...
Why Wilders has so few followers? Once he identified the cause of the evil - immigrants (outsiders) - the Neytherlanders should let him led them. I think, even between polls, you may have a political dis-solution of the government and appoint the Saviour of the Nation as PM.
- You, Dutchies, you miss the urgency of the situation. Get rid of them immigrants at once! Then you can burn down the libraries which infect the nation with subversive ideas.
"the government has agreed to stricter immigration policies and a number of symbolic anti-Muslim measures, such as a ban on wearing the niqab."
Sounds very rational, actually. We need more people like Mr Wilders, who speak out against fanatical and brutal ideologies full of hatred for followers of other ideas.
Polish and Czech working people are not normally classified as "..fanatical and brutal ideologies full of hatred for followers of other ideas", but then you did not bother to actually read the article, did you?
Mr Wilders is rapidly running out of targets(sorry, ideas) and thankfully, support.
this will not pass with Polish people mr wilders. stand up against nazie scums ! have guns ready for them. yet again Polish Nation ! fight ! Eye for an eye. Polish should be extremely tough in response. For how long we going to stand this ! they beat us like a dogs so we act like a beaten dogs. No more ! Every fakin Dutch who come to Poland should be caught, then put rope on his head, forced to work hard for shitty money. then we need to humiliate, ridicule, treat them like animals. make them frightened and so they will be more efficient. just like they do with us. whta kind of country is Hooland ? all they have they got they owe to collonialism and cheap labour expoloitation nowadays !
How is it the fault of the Dutch that your peoples move there and take low pay. The blame lays at the door of the immigrants for taking pittance, not the Dutch, none forces your people to move to the Netherlands.
If they really don't like it then the easterners would leave, it seems that for all the hyperbole talk is cheap.
so You from Africa or Asia, I dont care about african or asian migrants, so I won't discuss who is better. maybe easternes make up 40% of homeless (if this is true, show me statistics, and btw get familiar with unempoloyment and benefits statisctics, and compare east europeans with a&a) because we dont play rasist handicap card, we dont scrounge and get housing, we work or stay on the street. we work much harder and are much better technicaly educated and skilled then locals, and even if there are some Polish criminals they should be caught and put in jails or deported, very simple, that wouldnt be a big group though, because everywhere we go we make statisticly best group contributing migrants. as well because we look the same as locals, and asimilate completely in second generation (yes its racism but it wasn't me who invent this). so we wont keep our heads down, because some Polish was drunk, and You made big issue out of it, and You wont fak with Polish people, no way ! we work hard like no one else and I dont care if like us or not You must show fakin respect for work we do, we not your former colony to treat us with your shitty superiority
Please, this is a place for a nice discussion. Your offensive language and hate speech is unacceptable. I hope you do realize that calling yourself Polish and behaving like this is, in fact, very anti-Polish? You are ridiculing our nation by behaving exactly like Wilders would like you to: aggresively and stupidly.
uneployment rate among Polish people in UK is only 5.5% (http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/migration1/migration-statistics-quarterly-...).
WE WORK !
if You enjoy talkin about Shakespeare with immigrants from diferent continents while sitting on the dole that's fine for me, its Your country, they might be better to do this as they speak better english. but we do the jobs, and we got offensive coverage in medias because offending us is not against political correctnes.
@Francesco - is this dutch site is nice for You ? is this site provides any statistics ? proves anything ? I might be agressive but this is language wilders started to use and he wont understand anything else. enough with taking collective blame for every single Pole sleeping in London or drinking in Amsterdam. this is not fair and we have to speak out loudly. we do the jobs and we deserve minimum respect. no other option should be tolerated !
yes I know, You wish us to be your lackays, like it was for hundreds of years with other nations from your former colonies. not this time ! not with Polish people ! we wont bow down to you sir and take your endless insults, because You gave us job for 5 euros. You dont need us - fine, send Polish people home, if not - make sure that we'll fight every time You make website like this
But your people are the lackeys, and they are so willingly. Your people bow and bob and serve food for tuppence, and will do everything the manager asks. It is as if they were born to serve without self-respect... and when out of work they quickly go down hill. They become petty criminals and set up shanty towns, and become a pest.
This is the image those abroad have of your people, because of your people. Your government can pay to send them home, they came of their own accord they were not forced to come.
The website asks very good questions, and very good questions could be asked of the site. Your governments should cooperate, as it could only go badly for their people aboard if they carry on crying.
you were fakin lackeys, we won't be. and if you talk about crime statistics and any other statistics count in all your illegal African & Asian fellows as well. website is a lie, since it does not provide any figures. it can't because figures are in Polish favour. our goverment should catch this fake blond dutch manipulator and and lead to his prosecution for humiliating people
"For my part, I am continually astonished that a mark so simple is not recognised, or that men are of so bad faith as not to admit it. What is the end of political association? The preservation and prosperity of its members. And what is the surest mark of their preservation and prosperity? Their numbers and population. Seek then nowhere else this mark that is in dispute. The rest being equal, the government under which, without external aids, without naturalisation or colonies, the citizens increase and multiply most, is beyond question the best. The government under which a people wanes and diminishes is the worst. Calculators, it is left for you to count, to measure, to compare."
Jean Jacques Rousseau "Social Contract" 1762
Maybe we can argue about whether or not this was true in 1762?
Ironic how Geert Wilders, with his Indonesian ancestry, is so rabidly anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim. Perhaps he has deep seated issues with his own identity?
Read "While Europe Slept" by Bruce Bawer. Dutch and Indonesian people are well-mixed and Geert has no issues, deep-seated or otherwise, with his identity. Perhaps you may have a transfer syndrome in thinking that.
I hope you are aware that Anders Breivik, perpetrator of the 2011 Norway attacks, cited "While Europe Slept" in his manifesto.
As for Wilders' identity issues, why dye his hair blonde and wear blue contacts if he is so comfortable with his own roots?
À lot of people here say bad things about the Dutch in general, but they don't realise à lot of Dutch people don't like Geert Wilders or this government at all. It's supported by just over half of the population and that's bad enough, but the other half can't wait to see Rutte, Verhagen and Wilders go.
You know, I think that's called democracy. It is a very good system of government.
We have to be very worried. The Dutch know how to get away with the most horrendous of crimes.
For example, the Netherlands was the unsafest place for Jews during WWII after Nazi Germany. Most Jews were betrayed by their Dutch neighbors, arrested by the Dutch police, put on Dutch trains driven by Dutchmen to the concentration camps. After the war, the government freed all the citizens from any responsibility. The reason being too many people were implicated in murder. The worst of it was that the members of the Dutch security forces - who were directly responsible for Jew-hunting and executions - kept their jobs after the war. The murderers turned policemen/agents of the state.
In Srebrenica - the Dutch UN troops aided genocide again. No one was found responsible. No crime was committed.
A Dutchman Frans Cornelis Adrianus van Anraat (born August 9, 1942 in Den Helder) is a businessman who sold raw materials for the production of chemical weapons to Iraq during the reign of Saddam Hussein.
A Dutchman Pieter Menten became a SS officer only to execute all the members of a Jewish family who he had trade dispute with.
Dutch war crimes in Indonesia are widely known - yet, no one got punished. Even after forty years since the war Dutch military behaviour still gives fuel to heated political "debate". The author Graa Boomsma got prosecuted because he qualified certain Dutch military actions to be similar to the methods which were used by the German SS. Where was free speech then?
Today Netherlands could be safe haven for war criminals:
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A leaked secret memorandum from the Dutch Ministry of Foreign Affairs suggests the government is seeking to ensure Israeli and other foreign officials who may be pursued for war crimes can visit the Netherlands without fear of arrest or legal accountability.
The memo, which was leaked to the Dutch television station KRO reveals that Foreign Minister Uri Rosenthal sought advice on possibilities for the state to prevent prosecution of foreign government officials who visit the Netherlands (“Minister Rosenthal wil vervolging buitenlandse politici in Nederland tegen gaan,” 26 January 2011).
Rosenthal sought advice from the ministry’s legal department after Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono canceled his state visit to the Netherlands last October following imminent legal action linked to his alleged role in crimes against humanity. However, it was clear that Yudhoyono could not be prosecuted because of his diplomatic immunity as president.
Rosenthal’s request for advice on the matter may have been triggered by concerns about future visits by Israel officials. Several high-ranking Israeli officials have within the past year canceled planned visits to European countries fearing arrest in connection with allegations of war crimes and crimes against humanity in Gaza, documented in the UN-commissioned Goldstone report.
In its memo, the Department of Legal Affairs writes that diplomatic immunity is the only guarantee against criminal prosecution. In order to get around this limitation, the memo proposes the option of a new “generic” law to protect foreign politicians from prosecution in the Netherlands.
Another option would be a short-term agreement with a state to grant immunity to a specific person for a limited period. This would carry the publicity risk that “the Netherlands protects a war criminal,” the officials who authored the memo wrote.
Yet another possibility the Dutch officials consider is that the state could take over an invitation to a foreign official issued by a private party, thus providing the foreign official with a form of state protection and indicating that such a visit is important to the foreign relations of the Netherlands. Previous court cases have shown, the memo notes, that “judges are sensitive to the argument that the judiciary should exercise restraint in cases that affect foreign relations.”
This was “astonishing advice,” Menno Kamminga, Professor of international law and director of the Maastricht Centre for Human Rights, told KRO television. “The Netherlands is bound by various treaties to prosecute violators of human rights; you cannot try to evade this unilaterally with a new law,” Kamminga said.
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Few people know that all Africans who were transported to America as slaves were transported by Dutch ships. Even when slavery in Europe was illegal - the Dutch continued transporting them arguing they were involved in property transport only - not in slave trade.
I did hear that over 90 percent of dutch jews perished during the holocaust. This is astonishing given that the Nazis managed to wipe out close to 70 percent of the jews in Poland where anti-Semitism was fairly rampant. The point is, it would have been exceedingly hard for the Nazi's to hunt down 90 percent of jews in the Netherlands without active local cooperations.
A record that the Eastern countries when it comes to the treatment of Roma massively surpasses.
There are very few around that were alive when the Dutch committed those acts, however, eastern European brutality towards Roma goes on even today.
"Eichmann in Jerusalem" Hannah Arendt
"Holland had been the only country in all europe when students went on strike when Jewish professors were dismissed and where a wave of strikes broke out in response to the first deportation of Jews to German concentration camps."
The massive numbers of Jews killed in Holland is explained in the book by two factors: "First, there existed a very strong Nazi movement in Holland, which could be trusted to carry out such police measures as seizing Jews, ferreting out their hiding places, and so on; second, there existed an inordinately strong tendency among native Jews to draw a line between themselves and the new arrivals, which was..because anti-Semitism in Holland, just as in France, focused on foreign Jews."
This meant that "a large number of Jews (went) into hiding — twenty to twenty-five thousand, a very high figure...at least half of them were eventually found, no doubt through the efforts of professional and occasional informers."
The majority of the Dutch people cannot be blamed for the rounding up of Jews in Holland. Some historical context as provided shows that clearly.
It seems that you believe that it is actually Poles who wiped out 70% of Jews in Poland. To surprise you, Poland was the only country in Europe that did not create a police or quasi-state that collaborated with Nazi Germany nor hunted Jews. What is more, Polish Underground Army (biggest resistance movement in Europe at the time) strongly supported Jews during war time. Just look up how many Poles were awarded the Yad Vashen award of The Righteous Among Nations and then compare it to other European nation.
How does this differ from the treatment of Roma in France, Spain, Italy, Greece, etc.
treatment of roma in Spain? are you kidding me? Im sorry but stop mixing everyone in one bag. What is going on in Italy is not comparable to Spain. We give them houses, they hunt them down. I hate the roma and would never defend them, but as someone that loves italy, speaks italian, is friends with italians: their lack of empathy towards these peoples it worries me for two reasons: It means the government hasnt protected italian interests and its people. And 2. What it has done well is allow a culture of hatred to the immigrant. In Spain the Roma arnt just tolerated. They are part of our culture (As much as i hate it)
The French just give them money and send them back... as for the others, it just goes to show how little the mindset of the continent has change, yet they get treated better than they do in the east.
These are citizens of your countries practically fleeing from the brutality of the neo-Nazi actions of their fellow countrymen. Easterners complain about what Wilders is doing should take a good long hard look in the mirror.
There is some truth in what you say. However, Roma communities are treated badly wherever they happen to be. I bet that if a 20.000 strong camp of Roma settled in the middle of London, it wouldn't take long before a riot would break out.
Racism cannot be justified but I think that comparing Roma in Slovakia or Romania (you use the term 'Eastern Europe' but the Roma people are actually fairly rare in Poland and the Baltic States) to Poles in the Netherlands is misleading.
This is reply to Martel_es, below:
The Europe's behavior in the colonies was horrible; all that the poor immigrants to Europe today are trying to do is make a living--not trying to conquer. The fact that you refer to them as "invaders" points to the problem. Contrast your behavior with the United States, where I, an immigrant from Asia, have lived and worked for more than 40 years. I am now retired. I am typing this reply at a McDonald's cafe, where I come often to eat breakfast and to drink coffee (40 cents or 1/3 of a Euro for Senior citizens). The staff here is Black, Hispanic and white. In the last two months, at this cafe I have seen immigrants (or their children) from at least 20 different countries. I have not seen one single incident of hostility among any customers or from the staff towards customers. Compare this with my brief experience in Europe. In the eighties and nineties, I used to travel in Europe on behalf of the American computer company I worked for, which has offices all across Europe and employs thousands of people over there. I was treated well at my company's offices, but elsewhere it was a mixed bag. Compared to England and Italy, Netherland was actually a very civilized place. Or so I thought until one night, in a jazz club in Amsterdam, a young punk started harassing me. I left. He followed me to the parking lot where I had parked my rental car. To make a long story short, I had to break his nose before he would give up (yes, he was very surprised that I fought back.) I took the next flight I could catch to London. In 40 years in America, I have not encountered anything like I did in just a few weeks in Europe. I am now retired, but I used to be a very well paid professional; I have graduate degrees; I dress well and speak, what I am told by my American friends, excellent English. If I was treated in this manner, I can only imagine, how poor Asians or Arabs might be treated in Europe. This is not to say that all of Europe is bad; but enough of it, at least, for Asians, and I guess, for Arabs as well. I feel truly sorry for Netherland. It is a small country. Its geophysical situation makes it very vulnerable. It thrives on international trade. And to prosper, it has to learn to live with the emerging economies of Asia and elsewhere (virtually everything my former company distributes out of its warehouse in Netherland is made in China or Malaysia). If Netherland does not make the effort to accommodate immigrants, it will suffer. Perhaps some of your people should come to America (there are non-stop flights between Amsterdam and San Francisco, full of executives of American companies that have set up operations around Amsterdam) and try to understand the immigrant experience in America, and why US thrives, with the help of immigrants from all over the world (including quite a few from Asia and the middle-east and some from Europe).
Good answer to all this hate-mongering.
It is true: Europe has to learn a new identity to play in the international arena and compete against world powers. But dont be wrong. Its not just a 'dark man - light man - asian man' thing. Its a national identity question too. Its Polish and German. Spanish and French. Italian and English thing. We are built on the values of ethno-social nationalism. That is to say. Our countries have the blue prints of invading peoples distinguished by genetic identity. We have to grow out of it to succeed as individuals and to evolve as a continent. But dont be confused. We have an advantage. Europe has seen it happen already. The US. Dont get me wrong. Europe will never be like the US. But theres alot of good in that too. The US is far from perfect, and in the racial arena too.
The underlying frustrations of colonial war and slavery have made it a breeding ground for social divisions unimagined for such a rich country. Yes Obama, a black president. Yes jewish industry (hollywood and such) growing in the midsts of a christian country, and yes asians invited to partake in what is now the global melting pot. But obamas origins are in Kenya not in the US. Jewish industry (ie hollywood) points out the fact that there is a distinction with other industry and asian-americans? are you serious. YOU ARE AMERICANS! The thing that impreses me the most of anglo-saxon culture is race awareness!
So yeh. If Europe doesnt manage to outgrow this ill just leave and go join you there myself. :P
I would add to Bekaar's thoughtful post that if you asked an american to describe Bekaar, he would not be described as an immigrant, he would be described as an american. They might throw in asian-american but this is to refer to his race, not his origins. An asian-american is thought of as asian about as much as an african-american is thought of as african. Bekaar is one of us, that is how we feel.
In my experience in Europe they do not feel this way. Their countries are not collections of like-minded people, they are collections of similarly descended people. Why do all the dutch look the same? Because they have been living with each other for centuries. The Europeans (no need to pick on the Dutch here) think of their countries as the homelands of the indiginous race. There is no problem with this, provided that all of your immigrants look the same as the natives. They don't and so they look "foreign" and are treated accordingly. Try as they might to assimilate, they will always seem foreign. In the US, if you can speak English, it is assumed that you are american until proven otherwise. I have heard that Canada is the same way.
Europe should have a frank discussion about whether or not they want to have racial diversity in their countries. There are drawbacks to having diversity in a nation. What they should stop doing, is voting yes to diversity with their laws but keep saying no in their hearts.
You raise some excellent points. Europe will never be a US-style melting pot of ethnicities and nationalities, despite policymakers' attempts to legislate Europe into becoming one. Basically, Europe may have to trade-off its competitiveness in a globalized world (e.g. attracting the top talent from around the world, as the US has done for generations)to preserve its homogeneity.
"No matter Mr Rutte's personal feelings about the website, if he fails to speak out the broader European public will make up its mind on which side he stands."
And is the "broader European public" of one mind on this issue? It is fine to speak of them as if they were a single agent or even a single mind. But such suppositions are a fantasy are they not?
The Dutch didn't have any problem raping and pillaging Asia (Indonesia, in particular). But now they don't want anyone else coming to their country. Bloody hypocrites. I say destroy their flood gates and let them drown.
So for you present-day african, asian and latin american flood of inmigrants to Europe is akin to European colonial expansion in the past? You're giving more reason to those europeans who want to defend'emselves from their new conquerers. The fact that in the past european colonizers were strongers and better organized that the natives of their colonies, is no reason for present-day west Europeans to surrender to foreign invaders.
They did not, they civilized Indonesia, the Japanese are the ones who raped and pillaged. The Dutch East India Company, VOC (Verenigde Oost-indische Compagnie) like the British East India Company traded and benefitted the Far East. They have an overwhelming amount of foreigners in their country, it's just that they don't like those who are unwilling to assimilate and bring along with them their deeply flawed culture, the religious filth that ruined the very country from whence they came.
good good. i like what you did there. Admitting that cultural values can be morally differentiated is basically the only aspect of worry in mass immigration. Anything else is just plain racism
extra respect for the religious contempt. Personally i would like a purely atheist Europe, but hey thats just me.
The people who enslave fellow humans, steal their wealth, treat them badly in their Owen Country, are far from being civilised.
When the going gets bad, the BAD get going. They emerge like 'white-ants' from rotting woodwork..