Photokina 2014: Canon interview - Mirrorless 'in the very near future': Digital Photography Review

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Masaya Maeda - Managing Director and Chief Executive, Image Communication Products Operations at Canon - pictured at Photokina 2014 with the new EOS 7D Mark II and PowerShot G7X.

DPReview attended the Photokina trade show last week in Cologne Germany. As well as getting our hands on this season's newest photo gear we also sat down with executives from several major camera manufacturers. One of them was Masaya Maeda - Managing Director and Chief Executive, Image Communication Products Operations at Canon.

Our time with Mr Maeda was brief, but in our conversation he shared reactions to the 7D Mark II, and explained that Canon is very serious about mirrorless, as well as committed to making higher-resolution sensors.

How has reaction been to the EOS 7D Mark II?

Really really positive. Sorry to keep you waiting for five years!

You’ve had a long time to get feedback from 7D owners - what did they want most in a replacement?

Besides a bigger sensor, they wanted the same sort of features found in the EOS-1D X. We did a lot of interviews with 7D users - more than 5000 people in total - and we think that in the EOS 7D Mark II we got very close to achieving EOS-1D-type features in a lightweight body.

The new Canon EOS 7D Mark II updates the 2009-vintage 7D with a completely overhauled AF system and an action-friendly max 10fps framerate.

How would you characterize the typical EOS 7D owner?

The user profile of 7D owners is ‘high amateur’ and enthusiasts who want high framerates and professional photographers who want a lightweight, fast camera. And also anyone who doesn’t want to carry something big and heavy.

Why did it take so long to replace the EOS 7D?

I will ask our engineers! But basically we reviewed the entire design and architecture of the camera, and we improved every part of the autofocus system. This all takes time.

Dual Pixel AF is in its second generation in the EOS 7D Mark II. How long do you think it will be before it can rival conventional phase-detection AF in terms of performance?

I don’t know. We are working on it but it’s very difficult.

Canon's 'Dual Pixel' AF system allows for phase-detection autofocus in live view and video modes. There are two photodiodes at every pixel location (shown as red and blue in this illustration), the signals from which are compared to achieve on-sensor phase-detection AF.

Assuming you do achieve this, presumably at that point you won’t need a mirror?

Maybe…

What needs to happen before Canon will create a serious mirrorless camera?

We are serious. We are really focused on mirrorless and we’re spending lots of time, and devoting a lot of manpower to scaling up mirrorless development right now.

What has changed? Why are you more serious now than in previous years?

We’ve actually been serious about it since the very beginning.

The EOS 7D Mark II omits built-in Wi-Fi. Is this feature less important to 7D II users compared to (say) 70D owners?

No, we don’t think so. We considered adding this feature to the EOS 7D II but the body material presented challenges. But we have a solution with the optional Wireless File Transmitter WFT-E7A.

Canon released two cameras at Photokina - the EOS 7D Mark II and PowerShot G7X. One thing we’ve learned is that the sensor in the G7X is not made by Canon. Does this represent a new philosophy at Canon?

We select the best sensor, whoever the manufacturer is. That’s our policy.

Canon's latest high-end compact, the PowerShot G7 X, slots in beneath the G1 X Mark II and offers a 20MP 1-inch type sensor, 24-100mm equivalent F1.8-2.8 zoom lens, and a host of other enthusiast-friendly features.

One thing we know from our own testing is that Canon DSLR sensors can’t quite compete with some modern sensors from Sony in terms of dynamic range. How important to you is developing sensor technology?

We are very focused on getting the best image quality. I’m not sure what measurements you’re looking at but when it comes to dynamic range for example we consider image quality as a whole, from low to high ISO sensitivities and on balance we consider our sensors to be the best.

My ideal camera is one that can take a picture in any environment from complete darkness to the brightest sunshine.

So in your opinion your sensors are currently the best on the market?

Yes. In the EOS 7D Mark II for example the sensor we’ve used is improved compared to the previous generation, especially at high ISO and in shadows. There’s less noise.

Currently no Canon camera offers more than 22MP. Do your DSLR customers ask for higher resolution?

Yes. We know that many of our customers need more resolution and this is under consideration. In the very near future you can expect us to show something in terms of mirrorless and also a higher resolution sensor.

Mr Maeda, you’ve been at Canon for a number of years. Looking back, what are you most proud of?

My team. Also the fact that we brought video to the DSLR world, and the Digital Elph / IXUS. We created something stylish, which was widely copied by our competitors.

Canon's EOS Mark II wasn't the first DSLR to offer a video feature, but arguably it was the most influential product in the general movement towards filmmakers using DSLRs for capturing video content.

Canon established ‘the’ digital camera concept and everybody else followed. We were also very proud of our film cameras, and the way that we continued and made the transition to digital with the two brands - EOS and Elph / IXUS.

When was the first time you saw a picture from a Canon digital camera and thought ‘that’s better than film’?

2004. That’s when the reproduction of color exceeded the capabilities of film. Across our entire product line.

That was ten years ago - what’s the next big moment?

You tell me!

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Total comments: 597

The 7D is a product of Canon's marketing strategy, which tries to avoid competition among its own products. The 7D tries not to take sales from the 1D-X by keeping the sensor small, and it tries not to compete against the 5KIII by keeping the frame rate higher. What people want is a camera lighter, smaller and cheaper than the 1DX, and it is full frame, rugged, and as fast in frame rate as the 7D, but at the same time cheaper than the 1DX.

0 upvotes

"Also the fact that we brought video to the DSLR world..."

Wasn´t it Nikon who came with the first DSLR with video when they released the D90?

0 upvotes

Canon behavior is based on their fear. They fear their own mirrorless could cut their own DSLR sales.
Mirrorless is becoming a real alternative to DSLR.
At the end, Canon (and Nikon) are loosing the mirroless race because they feared creating concurrent products to their DSLR...whereas they already loose their DSLR market with Sony, Fuji, Pana, Oly mirrorless.
They thought almost no DSLR user was going to replace a DSLR by a mirrorless, and so keeping their own brand big sensors mirroless away was a security for their DSLR sells, but it is already happening for years.
And now, they are late. Very late in fact. They fear the revolution, but it is already coming to their doors.

13 upvotes

Do you not think that in a Canon R&D lab somewhere, they have a mirrorless camera under development that can jump straight into being the next 1DX tomorrow, if they wanted to? Same with Nikon. These companies aren't stupid, and they certainly know what they are doing when it comes to developing cameras and imaging equipment. When the time comes, they will release products that are competitive and will sell well. After all, they are there to make money, which is something that the smaller mirrorless makers are not doing very well at.

Its often the company that comes to market second that makes a more successful product than the first-to-market products. Time will tell :)

4 upvotes

Yes, it is a probability.
But i've already seen big mistakes from big companies in the film era ;)
Of course it is not the same danger level, but like in a race, it depends on your reactivity.
Will Canon and Nikon react like with Apple iPhone 1 and surprise everyone ? I don't think so. Sony already done it, it will not work again :D
But time will tell, like you said ;)
We will know if they lost the curve in less than 5 years.

1 upvote

I agree that it won't be a marvel (say like the Sony A7S has become) but it will probably be a market-leading product, like the 1DX and D4S. They simply have the resources to pull amazing tech together more easily than the smaller companies, with the exception of Sony (being a huge company) which is why they are doing so well :)

1 upvote

Im afraid of one fact: camera developers have left Canon and escaped to Sony and Fuji. I myslef would like to buy some (non DSLR) Canon camera better then my old Canon Powershot G11, but they dont produce anything... so I will also migrate to Sony. As Mr. Juza did: http://www.juzaphoto.com/article.php?l=en&t=from_reflex_to_mirrorless_sony_a5100

0 upvotes

I switched to Canon from Sony to get away from mirror less. Cost thousands, but very pleased with the handling of my Canon 6d compared to Sony Alpha A77. It feels like a proper camera again.

0 upvotes

This makes no sense GlowSticks. Why would they care what they are selling as long as they are getting the cash?? If im selling lemonade on the corner and I think people would rather buy grape juice, what do I care? As long as I don't lose money ill do it.

1 upvote

Normally I do not read the interviews.

For my self is new gear not the most importent. Vision of the company and that the listen to there users is importent for me. After reading that the did take the mirror less seriously give me dome question marks. The EOS M had not that much support from Canon as expected. Lenses firmware etc etc.

After struggling with the wight of the big Canon 5D3's I owned I decided after a year of using a Fujifilm X Pro1. To ditch all Canon gear an take the step to Fujifilm X cameras. In the beginning it was a big step. But when looking back it was for my self a very good step.

To bad Canon did not take Mirrorless seriously and came with a system dat can deliver good IQ and user experience in a smaller box ;-)

Goodbye Canon you lost a costumer with your lack of vision ....

2 upvotes

there comes a time for any company who's been leading for years to decide whether they are willing to face the competitors head on and sustain their leadership, or keep milking the cow and become irrelevant in short period of time.....

the examples are endless....

IBM,
Kodak,
Nokia to name but a few...

leaders in their industry once, nowhere to be found now... I think that Canon is doing a good job printing a nice label of their logo (using canon printers :-) so that they can join this long list....

Angry and uttterly dissapointed being a canon customer. the "plastic' executive ooozes this message....

2 upvotes

IBM is a bad example, as they are still a very successful company, just not in the consumer PC market.

1 upvote

that's what I meant. Sure IBM leads in other fields mainly services...

The example was mostly used to demonstrate how could a giant like IBM go from leader to extinct in an industry (that of PC hardware) in a relatively short period of time.

Sure canon may enjoy a sustained leadership in printers or scanners.... their position in cameras though is being challenged every day.

Let's not forget that for people entering the market, brand is a major element. When I bought my first EOS 5 (film), I chose Canon because of their apparent leadership and then then innovative retina tracking focus system (stayed on the bandwagon ever since)

Newcomers are getting a completely different picture as to who is the innovator and it certainly isn't Canon. Even worse, newcomers don't have to take the gamble of going SONY or SAMSUNG or PANASONIC. Nikon mops the floor with Canon every day

it a very precarious strategy that Canon has chosen and I'm afraid they will achieve the impossible ;-) ...

2 upvotes

The funniest thing is when you tell ppl Canon and Nikon don't innovate compared to Sony,Fuji, Pana and Oly, there are a lot of ppl saying : What ? They are the two first DSLR makers !
Trouble is DSLR is going to die soon, but ppl are not ready. Like Canon and Nikon. This is what is happening when there is a technical revolution, and ppl still think the old way.
Remember Minolta ? If Canon or Nikon camear section fall, Sony will buy it to improve their optics...like Minolta ;)

2 upvotes

@ gLOWx

they are the two first DSLR makers by merit of their lenses not their bodies.

Honestly now, if you could shoehorn your existing lenses to any camera body, would you honstely buy Canon from their existing lineup...?

1 upvote

Interesting conversation about the 7D, seems to confirm that the original version had focus and noise/dynamic range problems. I dumped Canon because of my experience with the 7D and went mirrorless with Fuji.

2 upvotes

The Canon's MD & CE looks dodgy...like their impossible marketing campaign.

2 upvotes

"Impossible" seems to mean getting marketing oiks to stop mangling English.

0 upvotes

"That was ten years ago - what’s the next big moment?

You tell me!"

OMG, Canon really is impossible!

4 upvotes

I wish Sony has E mount super telephoto lenses . Then I won't look at canon at all.. I will be satisfied with their latest Mirror less..

1 upvote

Nikon did the "Next Big Thing" promotion several years ago too. The next big thing-Lower Case Intentional-that was announced was; nikon is the next big thing. Lower Case Intentional.

Note to senior management at chikon Lower Case Inentional......

Is anybody home?

0 upvotes

Can you stop with the non sense of writing "Lower Case Intentional", it makes it easier to read your post(s).

0 upvotes

Maybe an impossible canon mirrorless can be done?

0 upvotes

Here is a good marketing PR for Canon.

Canon EOS should be an really good camera, otherwise the swimmer from Japanese National Team would not steal it in the international game in South Korea couple of days ago.

"I want the camera this time too has been taken," he said.

http://www.wikitree.us/story/5071

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting

1 upvote

above you see the reason why canon is so conservative.

a bunch of old guys who have no clue about todays technology.

it´s not that canon cameras are bad.. the opposit.
but they need to be more agressive. canon has to push the technology.

Comment edited 10 minutes after posting

6 upvotes

"We select the best sensor... That’s our policy." I wish Canon had this new policy when they select/buy G1X-MK2's sensor.

Let's see how Canon select/buy G1X-MK3's sensor.

Comment edited 28 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

so the 5D MK4 will have a sony exmor.. can´t wait.

5 upvotes

nothing wrong with the G1X MkII's sensor, read reviews... use IR comparometer and look at higher iso shots, it murders the Sony RX100's, also better than the 70D etc., its a great sensor for its purpose. as to the general state of Canon's APS-C sensor line up, they are a bit behind Sony and NIkon imho.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

0 upvotes

More pixels are not the way. But prosumers demand that. Hard to make predictions. The future is in SW triggered devices. HW is only a tool, becoming a commodity. Mirrorless is the answer. You do no more need pentaprism and else. We are in a situation like migrating from film to digital.

And Canon represent one of those backward oriented companies, at least in their classic digital camera line. They like themselves most, accompanied by such an unreflected Director's smile and reply. Markets will resolve this.

1 upvote

Mirrorless is the answer for a lot of people but the real big spenders are the bird and wildlife enthusiasts who cannot accept mirrorless. Traditional SLR will always be faster.

0 upvotes

DSLR will not always be faster.
There are already hybrid phase/contrast focus, electronic viewfinders are still a bit "slow" and average IQ but it gets better every year, even 6 months ;)
Biggest advantage of DSLR is no-lag, perfect definition optical viewfinder combined with fast autofocus (phase detection).
As EVF improve, and mirrorless already get phase/contrast focus....in less than 5 years, you will get an equivalent mirrorless to the faster DSLR. In technology, there is no "never". Only a question of time, and time is running fast ;)
For now, and for sure, nothing can beat a fast/sport DSLR.

0 upvotes

"Will your AF systems ever become competitive to Nikon's offerings?" :)

0 upvotes

joking right! my 7D's AF is much faster and more accurate than my D7100 and my D7000, so not sure what you are one about... and the 7D is way older too.

1 upvote

Will the sun ever outshine the moon? Will the cheetah ever outrun the turtle?

0 upvotes

This shows in real world testing how far the 5D MK3 is behind the D810

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR7Kjeq2aH4

4 upvotes

what´s next.. you posting k. rockwell as a serious source?
these guys do everything to get attention and clicks.

that´s how they make money.

show me what he has done except a book he promotes and a crappy image for a cereal box?

his statements are just to stir up sh*t and lure more noobs to his website.

1 upvote

You know that with the number of shots done there that those percentages are only a few shots apart and conditions are not well controlled or identical in the test shown there (e.g. the camera was not approached at exactly the same speed etc..). In other words that was not statistically significant nor rigorous and if you ask Tony that directly I think he would agree. Having used the camera longer he might believe the focus is better, but I doubt that that conclusion would have been based only on that test.

0 upvotes

Having both mirror and sensor Phase-AF is waste.
I know that Movie AF cannot use the Mirrored AF sensors, but That what SLR IS. Single Lens Reflex.

Hope to see No mirrored SLR-styled cameras from Canon soon.

1 upvote

Sony created a fixed semi-transparent mirror for their DSLR.
They don't make any new DSLR and concentrate on mirrorless.
Life is funny, sometimes :D

0 upvotes

AFAIK the sony's fixed semi-transparent mirrored DSLT doesn't have sensor phase detection AF(except A99, but actually A99 sensor phase detect didn't have enough AF region. And the center part doesn have phase detect AF at all). So they should stick to the semi-transparent-mirror and external phase-AF solution.

Quite different.

I know the term "Life is funny, sometimes" -> and I totally agree with you ;-)

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

CMON man he's making a mockery of the blind canon fanboyz

"What needs to happen before Canon will create a serious mirrorless camera?

We are serious. We are really focused on mirrorless and we’re spending lots of time, and devoting a lot of manpower to scaling up mirrorless development right now.

What has changed? Why are you more serious now than in previous years?

We’ve actually been serious about it since the very beginning."

2 upvotes

Trying out my new A6000 with the 35mm 1.8: yes, the sensor seems very powerful : I can crop to within 100 % and still get useable results. But my 700d's sensor is better for sharpness and colour.

0 upvotes

Whoa, Canon, slow down.. What is this crazy talk about new hi-res DSLRs?

3 upvotes

"Open Source Brings High-End Canon 5D MK III Dynamic Range Closer to Nikon D800."
Source:
http://www.zdziarski.com/blog/?p=2792

Canon 5D MK III, dual iso, 2,5k movie, 2560x1090 raw, 24 fps
Source:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=12796.0

0 upvotes

14-bit RAW on Canon 5D Mark III vs. factory default vs. GH3 - Image Detail test.

http://vimeo.com/66063838

0 upvotes

Current features from magiclantern:

-Audio controls, on-screen audio meter, audio monitoring via A/V cable
-HDR video, bitrate control, FPS control, auto-restart
-Precise ISO, White Balance, and Shutter Speed controls
-Zebras, false colour, RAW histogram, waveform, spot meter, vectorscope
-Focus peaking, 'magic zoom', trap focus, rack focus, follow focus, motion detection
-Automatic Exposure Bracketing, focus stacking
-Intervalometer, bulb timer (up to 8 hours), bulb ramping
-Custom cropmarks/on-screen graphics
-On-screen focus and DOF info, CMOS temperature, clock
-Customizable menus and scripting
-Customizable "P" Program mode
-14-bit RAW video on some DSLRs
-Dual-ISO for increased dynamic range up to about 3 EV
-Auto-Dot-Tune on some DSLR's for automatic micro-focus-adjustment to calibrate lens and body (5D2, 6D, 50D, 5D3 and 7D)

0 upvotes

Plenty of time to change the G7X to bounce that flash like Sony and Panasonic and Fuji do. To not doing shows a disconnected leadership.

0 upvotes

Seems like Canon is more and more likely to become little more than a lens manufacturer, with only a token camera offering (a la Sigma). Wouldn't be a bad thing though - Canon lenses with a native mounts for the other systems would sell rather well I think.

Who knows, maybe we'll be soon talking about Sonikon (or Nikony) instead of Canikon.?

Comment edited 36 seconds after posting

4 upvotes

Not likely to happen. The mount is a camera maker's most treasured asset, and lenses are a way to attract buyers to buy their cameras. If Canon makes lenses for other brands, then their camera sales will suffer. Canon has not refreshed their 5DIII, 6D or 1D-X but their replacements will likely come in the next couple of years.

2 upvotes

"lenses are a way to attract buyers to buy their cameras" - indeed, and that is why Canon really needs to step up their game, because Sony's A7/r/s allows you to enjoy the freedom of any lenses out there thanks to a wide range of adapters. The days where Canon could guarantee good sales of their DSLRs because of their great lenses is coming to an end.

3 upvotes

Wow. And so the Sony A7 series will focus properly and quickly with the Canon lenses, will they? And you get full control over the aperture of Canon lenses that you mount to the Sony cameras, right?

0 upvotes

Well, with some adapters you get all that, incl EXIF info.
maybe not fast AF, but then again neither do EOS-m.

1 upvote

It may not be good enough for pros, and those who think they need pro-like performance, but it is good enough performance for most amateurs and hobbyists, and they tend to make up more of the market.

1 upvote

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Article

Photokina 2014: Canon interview - Mirrorless 'in the very near future'

How has reaction been to the EOS 7D Mark II?

You’ve had a long time to get feedback from 7D owners - what did they want most in a replacement?

How would you characterize the typical EOS 7D owner?

Why did it take so long to replace the EOS 7D?

Dual Pixel AF is in its second generation in the EOS 7D Mark II. How long do you think it will be before it can rival conventional phase-detection AF in terms of performance?

Assuming you do achieve this, presumably at that point you won’t need a mirror?

What needs to happen before Canon will create a serious mirrorless camera?

What has changed? Why are you more serious now than in previous years?

The EOS 7D Mark II omits built-in Wi-Fi. Is this feature less important to 7D II users compared to (say) 70D owners?

Canon released two cameras at Photokina - the EOS 7D Mark II and PowerShot G7X. One thing we’ve learned is that the sensor in the G7X is not made by Canon. Does this represent a new philosophy at Canon?

One thing we know from our own testing is that Canon DSLR sensors can’t quite compete with some modern sensors from Sony in terms of dynamic range. How important to you is developing sensor technology?

So in your opinion your sensors are currently the best on the market?

Currently no Canon camera offers more than 22MP. Do your DSLR customers ask for higher resolution?

Mr Maeda, you’ve been at Canon for a number of years. Looking back, what are you most proud of?

When was the first time you saw a picture from a Canon digital camera and thought ‘that’s better than film’?

That was ten years ago - what’s the next big moment?

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