In a continuing New York Times series on immigration, Julia Preston, a national correspondent,wrote about Latin American migrants who are discovering how shaky their foothold is in the current U.S. job market. Room for Debate held a related discussion that looked at the competition between American-born workers and immigrants for lower-wage jobs. Here are excerpts of comments from readers, who shared their experiences and thoughts.
A Case Study: Building Fireplaces
As the son of a construction worker I used to hear about snide comments about how construction workers should have stayed in school and gotten a better job. And usually the person making the comment was some snotty white-collar person who believed that those people who worked with their hands were some lower form of life.
An incorrectly built fireplace can easily burn your house down.
They have no clue as to what it takes to do many jobs where you work with your hands. Take brick laying for instance. It takes years to become a skilled Journeyman. And yet Contractors will replace a skilled Journeyman with an Illegal Immigrant if they find out that the Illegal Immigrant at one time may have built a wall in his back yard. And they do it just so they can save a few dollars.
What most classist people do not know is that because of practices like this it is estimated that as many as half the fireplaces in our town were built incorrectly. An incorrectly built fireplace can easily burn your house down. They should think of that the next time they light a fire in their fireplace.
And when they next choose to put down hard-working Americans by saying that they should “study and better themselves” consider this. Maybe their neighbor’s fireplace or foundation was built by the $30 per hour skilled craftsman hired by an honest Contractor. And their fireplace or foundation may have been built by the $13 per hour Illegal Immigrant hired by the dishonest Contractor. And yet each paid the same price for their house. And if they have problems thanks to the dishonest Contractor, good luck proving anything or getting any satisfaction. The dishonest Contractor will be too busy laughing on his way to the bank while the honest Contractor fights to stay in business.
Meanwhile the home owner is stuck paying a fortune replacing a crumbling foundation, or rebuilding after a fire, or fishing their furniture out of the basement because the Illegal Immigrant carpenter did not recognize flawed or incorrect material.
— Norski
No One Else Wants This Work
I just drove around my neighborhood looking for someone to clean my yard of leaves for spring. Not one white, black, Asian or any other person out doing this work except Hispanics. Paying $25 to $30 for blowing leaves, and there are no kids trying to get in on this. Come on. American-born workers are not that interested in this type of work. I see it every day. And so to many of your readers: Let’s stop kidding ourselves about our work ethic. Low wage jobs are no picnic for immigrants, so don’t blame them.
— Michael H.
It’s About Money, Not the Work Ethic
All this propaganda about illegal immigrants working harder than Americans! Look, illegal immigrants work for less. They can’t organize because they can be turned in to immigration authorities. If they are injured, they can be frightened into forgoing their workers compensation rights or authorities can be called to remove them. They rarely sue or recover for injuries.
They are willing to live in incredibly substandard housing — witness all the garage renovations found in foreclosure housing. They are willing to live with others in a room in houses full of strangers. For these reasons, for many employers, they are more desirable as employees.
I work in a large organization. All the janitors work for a contractor and are illegals. They are “union” organized, in a captive union. They are docile workers and accept lower wages than natives and legal immigrants would. They pay taxes on their wages but not on their side jobs. They rent from Hispanic landlords, usually ones who have managed to become legal or who have papers to pass as legal.
Sometimes their landlords are their supervisors or contractors. It’s a form of indentured service or slavery. As happened in Roman times, the indentured/slave-based industries are winning out over the industries that employ natives. Welcome to America as it re-enacts the fall of the Roman empire.
— Jack
A Motivating Force
Fierce competition and low wages in these kinds of jobs are exactly what is needed to improve educational achievement in America. When you can own a house and provide for a family even with the most menial job, what motivation is there to innovate or pursue further education? When immigrants are willing to do more for a lower wage, Americans may start thinking twice about dropping out of high school and start looking for ways to become more employable (e.g., going to a vocational school).
While the process may cause suffering among families that were used to a good life based on inflated wages, these forces are what drive innovation and will make Americans rethink their educational goals. In the long run, this is necessary.
— LB
Go Back Home and Help Your Country
There’s no denying that Latino workers, whether illegal or legal, are hardworking and productive people. They are also friendly and sympathetic. And yes, they do the jobs that others don’t want, and they do them well. But the enormous numbers of illegal immigrant workers are overwhelming our social systems, and in these hard times, they are taking work that legal residents can do. Therefore, it’s time for the illegals to return to their countries.
This may be a harsh truth, but actually, illegals can look forward to better lives in their own countries. Those who have been here for a while have benefited from wages that they could have never made in their native countries. They have sent money home to their families, and therefore living conditions at home have improved.
Illegal workers have learned to work in American businesses with modern machines and they have been trained in the latest techniques and have become skilled in working with technology. They can take many skills and new ideas back to their countries and will be able to find jobs that require training and experience. Their experiences will benefit their native countries.
Illegal workers and their children have benefited from a generous and efficient school system in the U.S. They have had the opportunity to become literate and educated. They can take this education back with them and use it to improve themselves and their communities.
Finally, illegal immigrants have had the opportunity to live in a country with a political and social system that, although imperfect, functions well enough. They can return to their countries with a different attitude and new ideas about the relationship between the government and its people. They can use their experience here in the U.S. to help improve the status of citizens in their own countries.
Although it’s extremely difficult and heart-wrenching to uproot a family that’s been living peacefully and productively here for years, those illegals returning to their own countries should look for the silver lining in the cloud: they are returning with better skills, more education, and different attitudes. They will be able to use their skills and experiences to live well and improve their communities and countries.
— utagawa
My Talented Kitchen Workers
I have two restaurants and have grown to admire, care for and even love the 90 percent of my kitchen workers. In the dining room, several have taken English classes and been promoted to waiter. A couple make a thousand dollars a week. It’s because of talent and drive. I only hire and retain the best. During the economic slowdown we have laid off no one. My Mexican chef’s uncles think he is dealing drugs because he sends so much money back to his sick mother. (He is not.) I rarely see an Anglo applicant. We need a pathway for the motivated undocumented. We can’t (I can’t) get by without them.
— Michael O’Reilly
They Are Defenseless
I have never understood why it is that an American is inherently more deserving of a job than an immigrant. The truth is that the average immigrant has had to endure poverty that is unheard of in the United States. I am traveling in Peru right now and I have seen children who don’t own shoes who live in the very cold mountains.
The fact is that in today’s globalized economy, the employer will always look for the cheapest and most productive work force whether that means hiring an illegal immigrant in the United States or shipping their factory abroad. Many of the industries that hire these illegal immigrants dedicate large percentages of their revenue to payroll. Hiring native-born Americans who refuse to work these jobs without significant pay raises would only force these companies to increase the prices for their services or products. The deflationary effect that these immigrants provide for the cost of these services or products is often overlooked by xenophobic natives. How much do you think a hamburger would cost if illegal immigrants didn’t raise, slaughter, and cook the cow?
Also, I take issue with all those who complain about educating the children of illegal immigrants and using medical services. Mexican immigrants are renters and buyers of houses just like anyone else and, therefore, pay property taxes either directly or indirectly. Since they help fund the school systems they should be entitled to its benefits. Since Medicare taxes are withheld from their paychecks they should also be allowed access to health care. The heartless responses I have been reading from most of the people on this message board are absolutely infuriating. You all are picking on the most defenseless people in our society.
— Ezra Teter
Of Course, They Get Benefits
I live in Los Angeles County. If you ever visited any hospital here, you would see waiting rooms full of illegal immigrants in our ER’s and clinics. Hospitals do not turn anyone away, and they have several low-cost programs available that use income as qualifiers.There are NO police there asking about immigration status.
Have you ever seen a welfare office? They are FILLED with pregnant woman waiting to sign up for WIC. What they just suddenly became pregnant because that will help them work so hard to better their standard of living?
Taxes, you say. Sure illegal immigrants pay taxes. The U.S. even gives them a tax I.D. number for them to use. But do we really break even on that? Noooo. These starter babies are now dependents, and the great welfare program called the Earned Income Tax Credit ensures that they get most of those taxes back. More babies, more money you get back.
— erika
The Immigrant Illegal
The Immigrant Illegal is a bogeyman of sorts
haunting us at work, at play and even in our courts
as economic crisis deepens all across our land
our fear of this poor fellow is continually fanned
by demagogues and rednecks and the mindless hoi polloi
who claim they steal the coconut from every Almond Joy
overworked, exploited, and in fear of deportation
the Immigrant Illegal knows about humiliation
they do the dirty work that solid citizens abhor
when they’re sick and crippled we just shove them out the door
Oh Immigrant Illegal, I don’t wish you any harm
neither do I find you have abundance of great charm
I wonder how your country would react if I were there
without a proper visa, living off the thin blue air?
I don’t think they would welcome me with open arms and smiles
instead they’d have me working behind bars on large rock piles
when I’m abroad I have to put up with so much red tape
why do you deserve all that malarkey to escape?
— Tim Torkildson
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