I had a different interpretation of the lyrics, although the New York vs. L.A. theme might at first seem like the obvious interpretation. I see the the "canyon" in the song as a street in New York with tall buildings on either side. It doesn't make sense that girls are going into a Southern Californian canyon (for what?) but through blinds in NYC one can see girls "coming into the canyon" in the morning walking on their way to work.
December 26, 2007 at 8:52 PM
Anonymous said...
What an amazing interpretation of this song. Living in N.Z. "radio" music was usually a background sound creation. I'd have never sought lyrics or meaning beyond superficial (what my ear could discern) until now. I get music during sleep (dreams) and 500 songs later I get Twelve - Thirty. I get messages about my life and the life of a man in the US. Why this song? The man aged 54 unmarried worked hard but no recognition traveled the US & elsewhere, lots of "friends" lots of living for the day but seeking that love beyond all lesser loves - not finding it until 2000. Slow process of shedding layers of paranoia (love is picky and is gone in a flash - one bad heartbreak kills trust long ago) suspicion, fakery, "hellos" with no spirit of warmth, shedding falseness. Why? True Love has come along but it's not to be truly met or consummated for some time. Last verse? Reflecting back as he's moving forward. Born Ithaca maybe lived NYC too.....he's warming to life but slowly so slowly 8 years so far. The girls? True love slowly melting the ice but so slowly. He can't keep closed to this, no-one can who yearns for it so much. But he needs a step. A quick marriage while on the high but this will go it's way - it is not lasting. My God this guy was living an illusion in the illusion though for nigh on 47 years. Not there yet.
April 11, 2008 at 6:32 PM
Anonymous said...
The canyon is Laurel Canyon, just off Sunset Blvd.,where many musicians, actors and lost seekers lived and experimented with unconventional stuff like drugs, occult, and assorted "living arrangements". It started out so promising, but ended up a let-down.
September 18, 2008 at 9:49 AM
Anonymous said...
Hey,
When ever I surf on web I come to this website[url=http://www.weightrapidloss.com/lose-10-pounds-in-2-weeks-quick-weight-loss-tips].[/url]You have really contiributed very good info here musicmusingmusic.blogspot.com. Frankly speaking we really do not pay attention towards our health. In plain english I must warn you that, you are not serious about your health. Research displays that nearly 90% of all USA adults are either obese or weighty[url=http://www.weightrapidloss.com/lose-10-pounds-in-2-weeks-quick-weight-loss-tips].[/url] So if you're one of these citizens, you're not alone. Its true that we all can't be like Brad Pitt, Angelina Jolie, Megan Fox, and have sexy and perfect six pack abs. Now next question is how you can achive quick weight loss? [url=http://www.weightrapidloss.com/lose-10-pounds-in-2-weeks-quick-weight-loss-tips]Quick weight loss[/url] is really not as tough as you think. Some improvement in of daily activity can help us in losing weight quickly.
About me: I am webmaster of [url=http://www.weightrapidloss.com/lose-10-pounds-in-2-weeks-quick-weight-loss-tips]Quick weight loss tips[/url]. I am also health expert who can help you lose weight quickly. If you do not want to go under painful training program than you may also try [url=http://www.weightrapidloss.com/acai-berry-for-quick-weight-loss]Acai Berry[/url] or [url=http://www.weightrapidloss.com/colon-cleanse-for-weight-loss]Colon Cleansing[/url] for quick weight loss.
I just found this in 2011 and it's one of the best reviews and analysis of a pop song that I've ever read. Twelve Thirty is one of the songs from the Sixties that really haunts me and I listen to it often. I never knew what it meant until now. What an amazing bit of writing this post is!!
Thanks, Mark. I am so happy I came across your post, and the comments. I was searching for the meaning of this song that I love so much. I too wondered if the Canyon were the canyons (that's what they feel like to me) of New York City streets, or Laurel Canyon in L.A. Well, I know an artist is entitled to all its interpretations :-) So, no problem there. However, if it's New York, then it makes more sense to me. The way the song depicts NYC is exactly the way I view it. Excitement and a rush, but at what cost humanity? I feel joy in Paris. I feel joy in Nice, France. I feel joy, excitement and exuberance in San Francisco and New Orleans. But, 12:30 describes EXACTLY my feelings when I visit New York City-- even the "new" NYC-- even under Bloomberg. I feel the weight of it on my shoulders. The fight everyday for your very existence. However, I do agree with the old adage: "If you can make it there, you can make it anywhere." :-) Anyway, I loved your interpretation. I've thought about that song a lot for nearly 44 years. I'm 66 now. Thanks again :-)
November 23, 2011 at 11:39 AM
Anonymous said...
Back in the mid 60s, the teeny boppers (rarely guys) would "go home" with the pop musicians and such from the Wiskey a-go-go, Pandoras Box, The Toubadore, etc... who had places in Laurel Canyon up from Sunset Blvd. In the morning you would see them walking back to wherever they came from. It was pretty sad in the morning light. I was there. I saw it.
December 2, 2011 at 7:58 PM
Anonymous said...
Thanks so much for the interpretation. Eloquent and much appreciated.
I discovered this song as a 6-year-old, in my parents' stack of 45s, and instantly bonded with it, as though I had been meant to find it and it was my song alone. To this day it is still me favorite pop recording, and its lyrics were quite fateful as I was raised in Manhattan and would eventually be much happier living in Southern California. Both John and Michelle mentioned the song in their biographies, and indeed there is no doubt that the canyon of the song is Laurel Canyon, and the young girls were those whom Denny had brought home the night before. Denny was enjoying his fame and the girls he was able to win as a single and very attractive celebrity, much to the sadness of Cass, who had carried a torch for him for years. John and Michelle were married, but it was quite unstable already due to their age difference, her wandering, his controlling, and the money and celebrity that complicated these things further. When they'd all first met in New York, they were great friends and very creative and hard-working - but hungry and struggling. The steeple in the song was actually that of a Library in Greenwich Village, which is still there. The Phillips could see it from their window, and indeed, in the mid-sixties, it underweant a long renovation, thus the clock would not have been working, and was probably stuck at 12:30, giving John his title and theme. Although it's not documented as such, I have often felt that this song was years in the writing, with two distinct ideas melded together. It was their last successful single, but it didn't climb very high, and was part of their last album before their reluctant but necessary breakup. I also find it interesting that the only voices you hear, in the verses, are Cass and Denny, the superior singers of the four. All four may be in the chorus, it's harder to tell because the mix is so rich.
August 9, 2012 at 2:55 PM
Anonymous said...
Hello, I thіnk your sіte mіght be hаving bгoωsег cоmpatibіlity iѕsuеs.
When I lоok at your blοg in Firefοx, it lοοks fine but when opening іn Inteгnet Eхplorer, іt has somе oѵеrlapping. Ӏ just wanted to givе yоu a quicκ heаds up! Οthеr then thаt, amazing blog! Also see my web page: silkn
I like all the interpretations. I was so sorry the music stopped when Cass died - in the UK. I was in my late teens and hot for any West Coast music. This for me was very complex and sophisticated - it still is. I never worked the lyrics out - I never had to! However like Steinbeck it painted my own pictures in my head. The way the song is put together just fits in that half dozen or so "songs" that we all carry around with us for ever. Someone, somewhere will be playing that internal(eternal) song player to themselves right now and that song will be on it!
February 3, 2013 at 3:50 PM
Anonymous said...
Woah! I'm really enjoying the template/theme of this website. It's simple, yеt effectivе. A lot of tіmеs it's very hard to get that "perfect balance" between usability and appearance. I must say you have done a superb job with this. In addition, the blog loads super quick for me on Safari. Outstanding Blog!
Do you have a spаm issue on this site; I also am а blogger, and I was wаnting to know your situation; we hаve cгeated ѕome nice mеthods and we are lοοking to exсhange solutіonѕ with otheг folks, why not shoot me аn e-mail іf interested.
Pleaѕe let me κnow if you're looking for a writer for your blog. You have some really good posts and I feel I would be a good asset. If you ever want to take some of the load off, I'd really liκe to write somе artіcles for your blοg in exchаnge for a link back to mіne. Plеase blaѕt me an email if intеresteԁ. Mаnу thаnks!
Pleaѕe let me know if уou're looking for a writer for your blog. You have some really good posts and I feel I would be a good asset. If you ever want to take some of the load off, I'd rеally liκe to write sоme artіcleѕ fоr youг blog in exchange for a link bасk tο mine. Please blaѕt me an emaіl if intеrestеd. Many thanks!
Hmm is anуоne else expеriеncing ρrοblems with the ρictures on this blog lοаdіng? I'm trying to determine if its a problem on my end or if it's the blоg. Any rеsρonses would be greatly aрpreciated.
Yοu reаlly make іt seem ѕo easy with your presentatіon but Ι find this matter to be reallу something which I think I would never understand. It seems too complicated and νеry bгοаd fοr me. I'm looking forward for your next post, I will try to get the hang of it!
You are absolutely correct. It is really far fetched to think this refers to a busy skyscraper canyon, in a city that he already described as being dark and dirty.
No, Laurel Canyon makes far more sense than a canyon of skyscrapers in New York City. A skyscraper canyon is a rare interpretation of the word canyon. He already described New York City as being dark and dirty. To say good morning and really mean it is more indicative of California than New York City. Don't forget he also wrote "California Dreamin",.where he felt safe and warm in L.A.
Read the first verse again....Clearly it was written in reference when the Mamas and the Papas were still living in NYC. To the exact time, almost, when "California Dreamin'" was written.. .It was not a dig, in any way at NYC
Read the first verse again....Clearly it was written in reference when the Mamas and the Papas were still living in NYC. To the exact time, almost, when "California Dreamin'" was written.. .It was not a dig, in any way at NYC
The clock was clearly broken...That's why it always read 12:30..The "Canyon" was Laurel Canyon in L.A NOT the skyscrapers in NYC I repeat: I've seen more than a few post, I think, thinking that the first verse was a dig at NYC. .Clearly, it was not.
April 17, 2013 at 1:34 AM
Anonymous said...
I vіsiteԁ several webѕitеs except the auԁіo feаture for auԁiο songѕ сuгrent at this web ѕite iѕ really fаbulous.
Attractive section of content. I just stumbled upon your web site and in accession capital to assert that I get in fact enjoyed account your blog posts. Anyway I'll be subscribing to your augment and even I achievement you access consistently quickly.
Hi woulԁ you mind letting me know ωhiсh webhost you're utilizing? I'νe loaded your blog іn 3 differеnt іnternet browsers аnd I must say thiѕ blοg loaԁs a lot quiсker then most. Can you recommend a good hostіng pгovider at a faiг priсe? Chееrs, I aρpreciаtе it!
Ηіya! Quick question that's entirely off topic. Do you know how to make your site mobile friendly? My blog looks weird when browsing from my iphone. I'm trying to finԁ a tеmplаte οr plugin thаt might be able to corгect this issue. If yοu havе any suggestions, plеase share. Thаnκ yоu!
The song is about the difference between the grim streets of New York (where newcomers are advised to never talk to strangers and to avoid eye contact on the street), and the natural warmth of L.A.'s Laurel Canyon. Back in the '60s, the Canyon was at the heart of the Summer of Love and the birth of new musical forms. Laurel Canyon, despite being just a short distance from the busy Sunset Strip, has (to this day) a wooded, almost rural feel to it, and with the cheap rents available at the time, its homes became a virtual commune to a cluster of up & coming singer-songwriters from the era, including Cass Elliott & Denny, Jackson Browne, Joni Mitchell, Crosby, Stills & Nash, Jim Morrison, Linda Ronstadt, Frank Zappa, Mickey Dolenz & Peter Tork, The Doors, The Byrds, Buffalo Springfield, Carole King, et al. It was a common sight to see young girls hitchhiking into Laurel Canyon; some were groupies in pursuit of stars, while others were just flower children in search of the new counterculture Eden. The song speaks of the simple joy of being able to say "Good morning" to passersby and really mean it, rather than as a mere formality, of opening the drawn blinds to embrace a new sunny world of promise and a genuine sense of community. The lines about muddy water casting no reflection are a critical comment on the old world left behind in New York (with the iconic broken clock), where this genuine beauty is lost in the cynical eye of the beholder. And, importantly, the song notes the changes happening in the songwriter, feelings that surprise & delight them, as they open up to this new reality of optimism and neighborliness, where they can no longer keep themselves from talking to strangers - as they slowly lose the shackles of bleak urban convention, and realize the simple joys of being part of a new, friendly, creative community - far removed from the gritty streets they left behind.
May 15, 2013 at 2:15 PM
Anonymous said...
The song is about the difference between the grim streets of New York (where newcomers are advised to never talk to strangers and to avoid eye contact on the street), and the natural warmth of L.A.'s Laurel Canyon. Back in the '60s, the Canyon was at the heart of the Summer of Love and the birth of new musical forms. Laurel Canyon, despite being just a short distance from the busy Sunset Strip, has (to this day) a wooded, almost rural feel to it, and with the cheap rents available at the time, its homes became a virtual commune to a cluster of up & coming singer-songwriters from the era, including Cass Elliott & Denny, Jackson Browne, Joni Mitchell, Crosby, Stills & Nash, Jim Morrison, Linda Ronstadt, Frank Zappa, Mickey Dolenz & Peter Tork, The Doors, The Byrds, Buffalo Springfield, Carole King, et al. It was a common sight to see young girls hitchhiking into Laurel Canyon; some were groupies in pursuit of stars, while others were just flower children in search of the new counterculture Eden. The song speaks of the simple joy of being able to say "Good morning" to passersby and really mean it, rather than as a mere formality, of opening the drawn blinds to embrace a new sunny world of promise and a genuine sense of community. The lines about muddy water casting no reflection are a critical comment on the old world left behind in New York (with the iconic broken clock), where this genuine beauty is lost in the cynical eye of the beholder. And, importantly, the song notes the changes happening in the songwriter, feelings that surprise & delight them, as they open up to this new reality of optimism and neighborliness, where they can no longer keep themselves from talking to strangers - as they slowly lose the shackles of bleak urban convention, and realize the simple joys of being part of a new, friendly, creative community - far removed from the gritty streets they left behind.
May 15, 2013 at 2:15 PM
Anonymous said...
It is Laurel Canyou, off Sonset. When the M&Ps got back tggether, they got separate homes and Denny bought a home in Laurel Canyon.
Denny allegedly was a chick magnet...ergo, the young girls were coming into the Canyon to be with him. And in the morning? Well, I guess they had to walk home down Laurel Canyon Dr.
Keep in mind that John wrote this song. His wife, Michelle, had an affair with Denny. Some have said that John has Michelle speaking in the lyrics.
The bridge is the strange part. Some think that's the heroin talking.
May 15, 2013 at 3:13 PM
Anonymous said...
I'll immediately seize your rss feed as I can't in finding your еmail subscription hypeгlіnκ or e-neωsletter serѵiсe. Do you've any? Kindly allow me know so that I could subscribe. Thanks.
Make Big Savings And V2 Ecig! These are the major companies of electronic cigarettes in the market place nowadays. According to the electronic cigarette evaluations, V2 cigs, Green smoke, Blu cigs are best electronic cigarette brands. As opposed to conventional cigarettes, E cigarette kit doesn't make any stains in the finger and teeth neither the breathing smell due to the fact it is not creating nicotine. Some cartridges are refillable, but numerous aren't.
I really enjoyed this post and the relevant comments. This is a song that I rarely listen to just once; I almost always hit the repeat button because it's such a magnificent piece of music. It's good to understand it better now.
July 22, 2013 at 4:16 AM
Anonymous said...
It’s really starts out as a beautiful piece of existential poetry, one might expect from a person on reflection. Musically, the piece begins with Denny’s beautiful tenor voice dancing with Cass’s high alto, in contrary harmony.
But then it comes in with an almost intrusive wall of sound, reminiscent of Phil Specter’s music…Young girls who come into the canyon… The full foursome, with Michelle’s childish shouts actually pronounced in reverb. It’s a deliberate contrast, no question. Reflective thought…then, almost anger? John is thinking one thought, and then exploding with Michelle’s perspective: damn fillies are flocking to Denny’s house in the canyon; and in the morning I can see the tramps walking home; I used to just try to ignore it; but now I have to speak out.
The song should end there, but John finds more to say. However, it is something he only interprets himself. He repeats the chorus three times. The last time he uses echo lyrics of the lines. He definitely wants to emphasize that chorus.
I think it’s the early character that draws people in, and then he hammers home his anger.
October 18, 2013 at 12:11 AM
Anonymous said...
Just an unnecessary note of agreement with those who say it's about the contrast between dirty/cold New York and Southern California. I'm not from California, but recognized the Laurel Canyon reference as such. Even if people don't know the name of the specific canyon, I think most people are aware there are hip canyony residential areas in LA from seeing them on TV or whatever. Additional though: it's kind of a Southern California companion-piece to "San Francisco," which was also written by John Phillips.
December 10, 2013 at 1:18 AM
Anonymous said...
My redone gay porn site http://gay.adultgalls.com/?page_ezra gay night clubs gay gifts gay pokemon jim carrey gay live gay chat
January 5, 2014 at 7:50 AM
Anonymous said...
All of these analyses on interpretation show so much knowledge and sensitivity that really speaks volumes about the writer. Each of you expresses him/herself in the most wonderful way and does the memory of the group all due respect and admiration.
Simply put: The girls partied with the Rockers in the Canyon and would leave with the morning sun. They were visible to all from the area and that particular march from the Canyon's hidden homes to Sunset Blvd lasted 'til the mid eighties when the homes there skyrocketed in value and long haired types moved away to cheaper pastures. Read Pamela Des Barres book about groupies for a better explanation.
Sad song lamenting our shallow distractions as user friendly victims and commodities for others profit or hedonism. When we came off the land to live in un natural industrialised enviroments with careers that compromise our integrity we started the journey away from what is real and intended for us. Solution is to go and find purpose wherever that may be but preferably in a natural surround. For example in a farming community everybody is needed regardless how dumb one may be as a purpose is readily available for all. Such lifestyle promotes self esteem, a community mindset that lubricates purpose and generates meaningful output for local needs not profit.
12:30 basically creates two halves of the clock / Circle, one half represents New York and the other Los Angeles, just like the verse and chorus reflects the attitude of Nee York versus Los Angeles. It’s true a lot of young girls ran away from home seeking fame and fortune, and found themselves in Laurel Canyon drinking, tripping, and sleeping with their favorite rock stars. The lines about the water and the reflection refers to seeing them passed out, and unresponsive -mascara smeared & hair tangled, basically the morning after. The hippie movement in the 60s for a moment created an atmosphere where people would say good morning or hello, or can I help you, and it made you feel good, and you felt like you were proud to be a human being, it didn’t last, but for a moment it was beautiful.
I can’t keep myself from talking, do a line of Coke and try and stop talking LOL
March 24, 2018 at 10:55 PM
bcameron54 said...
Besides the Canyon reference, the song title calls up a dissonant metaphor of a broken tower clock in a church steeple - churches do not commonly tell us the time of day, but do post scripture by chapter and verse. An uncommon steeple clock stuck at 12:30 (hour hand towards heaven, minute hand towards earth) makes an esoteric and perhaps unconscious cultural reference to love of God in Mark 12:30, which says "And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment." The melody and lyrics trace a transformation from metaphorical unconscious darkness to light, from grey to brightness, from the dark gloom of New York City to the joyful sunlight of Laurel Canyon in California, coherent with an emotional awakening and transformation in social awareness or fellowship. This otherwise arbitrary lyrical nonsense rhyme of twelve-thirty connects the transformation and brightening of awareness brought by social and spiritual enlightening, from an arrest of time or progress in the works of the City, to an awakening of artistic creativity in the Canyon.
September 21, 2020 at 5:00 AM
Like many twenty-somethings born and raised in the Northeast (or anywhere, really), I find myself in the New York City area. The Greatest City on Earth is truly astounding in the way it alienates as it creates community, fragmenting and disorienting people while allowing us to meet absolutely fascinating, generally intelligent people. If all the world is a stage, then New York is the greatest example of this, millions of self-conscious simulacra running around hoping for truth, style, and people to solve the contradition therein. New York pulls me in with promises, with endless activities which enlighten, help me find meaning, and ultimately distract me from the loneliness that comes with so much around, with the knowledge that 10 million people couldn't give two shits about who you are. Yet even this loneliness comes with a wry smile- after all, how alone am I if I'm alone together with so many?
Due to some stressful circumstances recently in my life, I've had moments where I've sunk into this deeply cynical view of this area. Perhaps this is why the Mamas and the Papas' song "Twelve-Thirty" has been resonating so deeply for me lately. Yes, it helps that I'm a sucker for impeccable songcraft, delicious harmonies, and twisting melodies with as many flavors as a meditative sip of fine wine. Yet, the meaning of the song really speaks to me because deep down it is a melancholic song that is suppressed through cheerful exclamations. One can sing along to it joyfully and playfully. But, the melancholy is there, lingering after the song fades.
The song opens on a delectably baroque minor chord, which will eventually become the relative minor of the main key. The relative quiet stasis of the melodic line, which resolves entirely on either guarded majors or deceptive minors, accents the melancholy of the lyrics:
I used to live in New York City Everything there was dark and dirty Outside my window was a steeple With a clock that always said 12:30
This is the realistic NYC, the downtrodden wasteland and dank isolation that characterized it in the 1960s. Even the church, for John Phillips the last outpost of solace and safety (see "California Dreaming"), is stuck in the past, stolid, unable to help. The grass must be greener, or the pavement cleaner, on the other side. And where is it cleaner? Where else for the Mamas and the Papas- Southern California!
Young girls are coming to the Canyon And in the morning I can see them walking I can no longer keep my blinds drawn And I can't keep myself from talking
The music shifts at this point to emphatic major, to a forceful melody that's instantly memorable and celebratory. The voices and instrumentation open up as well, reflecting the narrator's open personality. The mood shifts from delicate Baroque-pop to mid-1960s pop that unabashedly uses that poppiest of rhymes, walkin' and talkin'. Most importantly, though, is the change in tense between verse and chorus. The melancholic verse is in the past, and the music sounds like a black and white photograph. The celebratory chorus, though, is present all the way, and the ensemble sings with color and vibrancy. Cheerfulness and optimism reign supreme!
Or so it seems. The second verse describes the bewilderment of being friendly and cheery. "At first so strange to feel so friendly/To say "Good morning" and really mean it," sings the narrator. It is a dig against the rudeness of New York City, its posture of importance and business that views simple pleasantries as naive idiocies worthy of the deepest scorn. But, it also signals discomfort with letting go of that. Like a child discovering social mores through his/her parents, the narrator must re-rediscover how to act. The buoyancy of the chorus is still subdued by the narrator's self-consciousness. However, the chorus comes in to signal his attempt to overcome himself and celebrate the beautiful canyon full of approachable beautiful women.
Attempt, though, is the key word. The bridge contains one of the strangest lyrics in '60s pop music:
Cloudy waters cast no reflection Images of beauty lie there stagnant Vibrations bounce in no direction But lie there shattered into fragments
Through its almost labored abstraction, the narrator realizes that the beauty and "vibrations" of Southern California are just as fragmented as that dark and dirty New York City. Bizarrely, this lyric is set to music that extraordinarily recalls the chorus. A listener can completely miss these lines if s/he doesn't pay careful attention. The critique is devastating in a close listen, but Phillips' songwriting mitigates against comprehension. Listen to the happy Southern California music, he is saying, but if you pay attention, I'm still searching, still alone, the clocks here all read 12:30 too. Southern California is the narrator's home, but the melancholy still remains. Grass is still grass, pavement is still pavement, the narrator is still the narrator.
I've always enjoyed traveling for the new experiences and escapes that it provides. But I try not to harbor illusions about how great the place I just saw was, or, more accurately, I try to keep a disaffected stance towards my leanings for having what I don't have now. Sometimes that dark and dirty place is, despite my every wishes and desires, where I really should be. I have to always remind myself of what I actually have, focus on the people who care for me rather than the hordes who don't know and won't know who I am. But still, I can dream and sing to the young girls who can't wait to meet me, even if I know they won't change a damn thing about me.
"The Mamas and the Papas- Twelve-Thirty (Young Girls Are Coming To The Canyon)"
49 Comments -
I had a different interpretation of the lyrics, although the New York vs. L.A. theme might at first seem like the obvious interpretation. I see the the "canyon" in the song as a street in New York with tall buildings on either side. It doesn't make sense that girls are going into a Southern Californian canyon (for what?) but through blinds in NYC one can see girls "coming into the canyon" in the morning walking on their way to work.
December 26, 2007 at 8:52 PM
What an amazing interpretation of this song. Living in N.Z. "radio" music was usually a background sound creation. I'd have never sought lyrics or meaning beyond superficial (what my ear could discern) until now. I get music during sleep (dreams) and 500 songs later I get Twelve - Thirty. I get messages about my life and the life of a man in the US. Why this song? The man aged 54 unmarried worked hard but no recognition traveled the US & elsewhere, lots of "friends" lots of living for the day but seeking that love beyond all lesser loves - not finding it until 2000. Slow process of shedding layers of paranoia (love is picky and is gone in a flash - one bad heartbreak kills trust long ago) suspicion, fakery, "hellos" with no spirit of warmth, shedding falseness. Why? True Love has come along but it's not to be truly met or consummated for some time. Last verse? Reflecting back as he's moving forward. Born Ithaca maybe lived NYC too.....he's warming to life but slowly so slowly 8 years so far. The girls? True love slowly melting the ice but so slowly. He can't keep closed to this, no-one can who yearns for it so much. But he needs a step. A quick marriage while on the high but this will go it's way - it is not lasting. My God this guy was living an illusion in the illusion though for nigh on 47 years. Not there yet.
April 11, 2008 at 6:32 PM
The canyon is Laurel Canyon, just off Sunset Blvd.,where many musicians, actors and lost seekers lived and experimented with unconventional stuff like drugs, occult, and assorted "living arrangements". It started out so promising, but ended up a let-down.
September 18, 2008 at 9:49 AM
Hey,
When ever I surf on web I come to this website[url=http://www.weightrapidloss.com/lose-10-pounds-in-2-weeks-quick-weight-loss-tips].[/url]You have really contiributed very good info here musicmusingmusic.blogspot.com. Frankly speaking we really do not pay attention towards our health. In plain english I must warn you that, you are not serious about your health. Research displays that nearly 90% of all USA adults are either obese or weighty[url=http://www.weightrapidloss.com/lose-10-pounds-in-2-weeks-quick-weight-loss-tips].[/url] So if you're one of these citizens, you're not alone. Its true that we all can't be like Brad Pitt, Angelina Jolie, Megan Fox, and have sexy and perfect six pack abs. Now next question is how you can achive quick weight loss? [url=http://www.weightrapidloss.com/lose-10-pounds-in-2-weeks-quick-weight-loss-tips]Quick weight loss[/url] is really not as tough as you think. Some improvement in of daily activity can help us in losing weight quickly.
About me: I am webmaster of [url=http://www.weightrapidloss.com/lose-10-pounds-in-2-weeks-quick-weight-loss-tips]Quick weight loss tips[/url]. I am also health expert who can help you lose weight quickly. If you do not want to go under painful training program than you may also try [url=http://www.weightrapidloss.com/acai-berry-for-quick-weight-loss]Acai Berry[/url] or [url=http://www.weightrapidloss.com/colon-cleanse-for-weight-loss]Colon Cleansing[/url] for quick weight loss.
March 23, 2010 at 6:16 AM
I just found this in 2011 and it's one of the best reviews and analysis of a pop song that I've ever read. Twelve Thirty is one of the songs from the Sixties that really haunts me and I listen to it often. I never knew what it meant until now. What an amazing bit of writing this post is!!
June 28, 2011 at 5:32 PM
Thanks, Mark. I am so happy I came across your post, and the comments. I was searching for the meaning of this song that I love so much. I too wondered if the Canyon were the canyons (that's what they feel like to me) of New York City streets, or Laurel Canyon in L.A.
Well, I know an artist is entitled to all its interpretations :-) So, no problem there. However, if it's New York, then it makes more sense to me. The way the song depicts NYC is exactly the way I view it. Excitement and a rush, but at what cost humanity? I feel joy in Paris. I feel joy in Nice, France. I feel joy, excitement and exuberance in San Francisco and New Orleans. But, 12:30 describes EXACTLY my feelings when I visit New York City-- even the "new" NYC-- even under Bloomberg. I feel the weight of it on my shoulders. The fight everyday for your very existence. However, I do agree with the old adage: "If you can make it there, you can make it anywhere." :-) Anyway, I loved your interpretation. I've thought about that song a lot for nearly 44 years. I'm 66 now. Thanks again :-)
November 23, 2011 at 11:39 AM
Back in the mid 60s, the teeny boppers (rarely guys) would "go home" with the pop musicians and such from the Wiskey a-go-go, Pandoras Box, The Toubadore, etc... who had places in Laurel Canyon up from Sunset Blvd. In the morning you would see them walking back to wherever they came from. It was pretty sad in the morning light. I was there. I saw it.
December 2, 2011 at 7:58 PM
Thanks so much for the interpretation. Eloquent and much appreciated.
January 2, 2012 at 8:41 AM
I discovered this song as a 6-year-old, in my parents' stack of 45s, and instantly bonded with it, as though I had been meant to find it and it was my song alone. To this day it is still me favorite pop recording, and its lyrics were quite fateful as I was raised in Manhattan and would eventually be much happier living in Southern California. Both John and Michelle mentioned the song in their biographies, and indeed there is no doubt that the canyon of the song is Laurel Canyon, and the young girls were those whom Denny had brought home the night before. Denny was enjoying his fame and the girls he was able to win as a single and very attractive celebrity, much to the sadness of Cass, who had carried a torch for him for years. John and Michelle were married, but it was quite unstable already due to their age difference, her wandering, his controlling, and the money and celebrity that complicated these things further.
When they'd all first met in New York, they were great friends and very creative and hard-working - but hungry and struggling. The steeple in the song was actually that of a Library in Greenwich Village, which is still there. The Phillips could see it from their window, and indeed, in the mid-sixties, it underweant a long renovation, thus the clock would not have been working, and was probably stuck at 12:30, giving John his title and theme.
Although it's not documented as such, I have often felt that this song was years in the writing, with two distinct ideas melded together. It was their last successful single, but it didn't climb very high, and was part of their last album before their reluctant but necessary breakup. I also find it interesting that the only voices you hear, in the verses, are Cass and Denny, the superior singers of the four. All four may be in the chorus, it's harder to tell because the mix is so rich.
August 9, 2012 at 2:55 PM
Hello, I thіnk your sіte mіght be hаvingω sег cоmpatibіlity iѕsuеs.
ο g in Firefο x, it lο ο ks fine but when κ Ο thеr then thаt, amazing
bгo
When I lоok at your bl
opening іn Inteгnet Eхplorer, іt
has somе oѵеrlapping. Ӏ just wanted to givе yоu a quic
heаds up!
blog!
Also see my web page: silkn
January 31, 2013 at 12:55 PM
I like all the interpretations. I was so sorry the music stopped when Cass died - in the UK. I was in my late teens and hot for any West Coast music. This for me was very complex and sophisticated - it still is. I never worked the lyrics out - I never had to! However like Steinbeck it painted my own pictures in my head. The way the song is put together just fits in that half dozen or so "songs" that we all carry around with us for ever. Someone, somewhere will be playing that internal(eternal) song player to themselves right now and that song will be on it!
February 3, 2013 at 3:50 PM
Woah! I'm really enjoying the template/theme of this website. It's simple,
yеt effectivе. A lot of tіmеs it's very hard to get that "perfect balance" between usability and appearance. I must say you have done a superb job with this. In addition, the blog loads super quick for me on Safari. Outstanding Blog!
Visit my blog post ... home laser hair
February 15, 2013 at 2:28 PM
I alω аyѕ used to reаd pіecе of wrіting in nеws paρ erѕ but now as
I am a user of inteгnet so from now I am using net for сontеnt, thanks to web.
Неre is my webpаgе; just click the following article
February 16, 2013 at 10:53 AM
Do you have a spаm issue on this site; I also amο ο king to exсhange solutіonѕ with otheг folks,
а blogger, and I was wаnting to know your situation; we hаve cгeated ѕome nice mеthods and we are l
why not shoot me аn e-mail іf interested.
Here is my web page; relevant site
February 16, 2013 at 12:48 PM
Pleaѕe let meκ now if you're looking for a writer for your blog. You have some really good posts and I feel I would be a good asset. If you ever want to take some of the load off, I'd really liκ e to write somе artіcles for ο g in exchаnge for a link back to mіne.
ο g post; V2 Cigs
your bl
Plеase blaѕt me an email if intеresteԁ.
Mаnу thаnks!
Also vіsit my bl
February 18, 2013 at 3:08 PM
Pleaѕe let me know if уou're looking for a writer for your blog. You have some really good posts and I feel I would be a good asset. If you ever want to take some of the load off, I'd rеally liκ e to write sоme artіcleѕ fоr youг blog in ο mine. Please blaѕt
exchange for a link bасk t
me an emaіl if intеrestеd. Many thanks!
my pagе: V2 Cigs
Also see my website > Ibase45.com
February 18, 2013 at 3:08 PM
Thanκ s a lot foг sharing this wіth all folkѕ you aсtuallу κ ing about! Boο kmarked.κ oveг with my site =).
ν e a linκ altегnatе аггаngement among uѕ
ν isit mу web pаge :: v2 cigs reviews
realize what you are spea
Please alsо tal
We maу ha
Also
February 20, 2013 at 5:18 PM
Hmm is anуоne else expеriеncingρ rο blems with the ρ ictures on this blog lο аdіng?ρ onses would be greatly aрpreciated.
I'm trying to determine if its a problem on my end or if it's the blоg.
Any rеs
Fеel free to vіsіt my site .
.. please Click the up Coming post
February 25, 2013 at 12:26 AM
Yο u reаlly make іt seem ѕo easy with your Ι find this matter to be reallу ν еry bгο аd fο r me.
presentatіon but
something which I think I would never understand. It seems
too complicated and
I'm looking forward for your next post, I will try to get the hang of it!
Also visit my web blog: v2 cigs reviews
March 4, 2013 at 8:03 PM
You are absolutely correct. It is really far fetched to think this refers to a busy skyscraper canyon, in a city that he already described as being dark and dirty.
April 9, 2013 at 11:53 PM
No, Laurel Canyon makes far more sense than a canyon of skyscrapers in New York City. A skyscraper canyon is a rare interpretation of the word canyon. He already described New York City as being dark and dirty. To say good morning and really mean it is more indicative of California than New York City. Don't forget he also wrote "California Dreamin",.where he felt safe and warm in L.A.
April 10, 2013 at 12:02 AM
Read the first verse again....Clearly it was written in reference when the Mamas and the Papas were still living in NYC. To the exact time, almost, when "California Dreamin'" was written.. .It was not a dig, in any way at NYC
April 17, 2013 at 1:28 AM
Read the first verse again....Clearly it was written in reference when the Mamas and the Papas were still living in NYC. To the exact time, almost, when "California Dreamin'" was written.. .It was not a dig, in any way at NYC
April 17, 2013 at 1:28 AM
The clock was clearly broken...That's why it always read 12:30..The "Canyon" was Laurel Canyon in L.A NOT the skyscrapers in NYC
I repeat: I've seen more than a few post, I think, thinking that the first verse was a dig at NYC. .Clearly, it was not.
April 17, 2013 at 1:34 AM
I vіsiteԁ several webѕitеs except the auԁіo feаtureο songѕ сuгrent
for auԁi
at this web ѕite iѕ really fаbulous.
Heгe is my blog post :: V2 Cigs
April 21, 2013 at 5:39 PM
wrіting at thіs place at this webpаge,
I ha
also commenting herе.
Hеrе is my web site :: http://www.sfgate.com/business/prweb/article/v2-cigs-review-authentic-smoking-experience-or-4075176.php
April 21, 2013 at 5:39 PM
Attractive section of content. I just stumbled upon your web
site and in accession capital to assert that I get in fact enjoyed account
your blog posts. Anyway I'll be subscribing to your augment and even I achievement you access consistently quickly.
Check out my site :: SlimBerry Cleanse Health
April 26, 2013 at 2:29 PM
Hi woulԁ you mind letting me knowω hiсh webhost you're utilizing? I'ν e loaded your blog ο g ρ preciаtе it!
іn 3 differеnt іnternet browsers аnd I must say thiѕ bl
loaԁs a lot quiсker then most. Can you recommend a good hostіng pгovider at a faiг priсe?
Chееrs, I a
Here іs mу page: V2 Cigs Reviews
May 3, 2013 at 8:14 PM
What's up, after reading this amazing article i am as well delighted to share my knowledge here with colleagues.
my homepage: Click This Link
May 5, 2013 at 4:53 AM
Fіne way of tellіng, аnԁ fastiԁious pіeceο n tο рic, which i аm going to present
of writing to get data regarԁing my presentatі
in acaԁemy.
Here is my wеb sitе - ipl Hair removal
May 7, 2013 at 6:05 AM
I wο ulԁ like the actual 12% discount сode make sure you.
Look at my weblog :: green smoke electronic cigarette review
May 7, 2013 at 6:51 PM
The belt uses gel pads postioned over the center abdominals and the
outdoors obliques.
Also visit my web blog flex belt discount
May 8, 2013 at 4:40 PM
Third, distributors are so confident in its abilities that
they provide cash back guarantees for people who attempt it
out.
Also visit my page :: eliseosebastian.ning.com
May 8, 2013 at 4:40 PM
plugin thаt might be able to corгect this issue.
If y
share. Thаn
Fееl freе to surf to my wеb site: click the following page
May 11, 2013 at 9:07 AM
The song is about the difference between the grim streets of New York (where newcomers are advised to never talk to strangers and to avoid eye contact on the street), and the natural warmth of L.A.'s Laurel Canyon. Back in the '60s, the Canyon was at the heart of the Summer of Love and the birth of new musical forms. Laurel Canyon, despite being just a short distance from the busy Sunset Strip, has (to this day) a wooded, almost rural feel to it, and with the cheap rents available at the time, its homes became a virtual commune to a cluster of up & coming singer-songwriters from the era, including Cass Elliott & Denny, Jackson Browne, Joni Mitchell, Crosby, Stills & Nash, Jim Morrison, Linda Ronstadt, Frank Zappa, Mickey Dolenz & Peter Tork, The Doors, The Byrds, Buffalo Springfield, Carole King, et al. It was a common sight to see young girls hitchhiking into Laurel Canyon; some were groupies in pursuit of stars, while others were just flower children in search of the new counterculture Eden. The song speaks of the simple joy of being able to say "Good morning" to passersby and really mean it, rather than as a mere formality, of opening the drawn blinds to embrace a new sunny world of promise and a genuine sense of community. The lines about muddy water casting no reflection are a critical comment on the old world left behind in New York (with the iconic broken clock), where this genuine beauty is lost in the cynical eye of the beholder. And, importantly, the song notes the changes happening in the songwriter, feelings that surprise & delight them, as they open up to this new reality of optimism and neighborliness, where they can no longer keep themselves from talking to strangers - as they slowly lose the shackles of bleak urban convention, and realize the simple joys of being part of a new, friendly, creative community - far removed from the gritty streets they left behind.
May 15, 2013 at 2:15 PM
The song is about the difference between the grim streets of New York (where newcomers are advised to never talk to strangers and to avoid eye contact on the street), and the natural warmth of L.A.'s Laurel Canyon. Back in the '60s, the Canyon was at the heart of the Summer of Love and the birth of new musical forms. Laurel Canyon, despite being just a short distance from the busy Sunset Strip, has (to this day) a wooded, almost rural feel to it, and with the cheap rents available at the time, its homes became a virtual commune to a cluster of up & coming singer-songwriters from the era, including Cass Elliott & Denny, Jackson Browne, Joni Mitchell, Crosby, Stills & Nash, Jim Morrison, Linda Ronstadt, Frank Zappa, Mickey Dolenz & Peter Tork, The Doors, The Byrds, Buffalo Springfield, Carole King, et al. It was a common sight to see young girls hitchhiking into Laurel Canyon; some were groupies in pursuit of stars, while others were just flower children in search of the new counterculture Eden. The song speaks of the simple joy of being able to say "Good morning" to passersby and really mean it, rather than as a mere formality, of opening the drawn blinds to embrace a new sunny world of promise and a genuine sense of community. The lines about muddy water casting no reflection are a critical comment on the old world left behind in New York (with the iconic broken clock), where this genuine beauty is lost in the cynical eye of the beholder. And, importantly, the song notes the changes happening in the songwriter, feelings that surprise & delight them, as they open up to this new reality of optimism and neighborliness, where they can no longer keep themselves from talking to strangers - as they slowly lose the shackles of bleak urban convention, and realize the simple joys of being part of a new, friendly, creative community - far removed from the gritty streets they left behind.
May 15, 2013 at 2:15 PM
It is Laurel Canyou, off Sonset. When the M&Ps got back tggether, they got separate homes and Denny bought a home in Laurel Canyon.
Denny allegedly was a chick magnet...ergo, the young girls were coming into the Canyon to be with him. And in the morning? Well, I guess they had to walk home down Laurel Canyon Dr.
Keep in mind that John wrote this song. His wife, Michelle, had an affair with Denny. Some have said that John has Michelle speaking in the lyrics.
The bridge is the strange part. Some think that's the heroin talking.
May 15, 2013 at 3:13 PM
I'll immediately seize your rss feed as I can'tκ or e-neω sletter serѵiсe.
in finding your еmail subscription hypeгlіn
Do you've any? Kindly allow me know so that I could subscribe. Thanks.
Look into my weblog http://www.sfgate.com/business/prweb/article/V2-Cigs-Review-Authentic-Smoking-Experience-or-4075176.php
May 16, 2013 at 10:30 AM
Make Big Savings And V2 Ecig! These are the major companies of
electronic cigarettes in the market place nowadays.
According to the electronic cigarette evaluations, V2 cigs, Green smoke,
Blu cigs are best electronic cigarette brands. As opposed to conventional cigarettes, E cigarette kit doesn't make any stains in the finger and teeth neither the breathing smell due to the fact it is not creating nicotine. Some cartridges are refillable, but numerous aren't.
Feel free to surf to my weblog: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/v2-cigs-coupon-codes-released-at-theecigexpertscom-183592391.html
June 5, 2013 at 3:00 AM
I really enjoyed this post and the relevant comments. This is a song that I rarely listen to just once; I almost always hit the repeat button because it's such a magnificent piece of music. It's good to understand it better now.
July 22, 2013 at 4:16 AM
It’s really starts out as a beautiful piece of existential poetry, one might expect from a person on reflection. Musically, the piece begins with Denny’s beautiful tenor voice dancing with Cass’s high alto, in contrary harmony.
But then it comes in with an almost intrusive wall of sound, reminiscent of Phil Specter’s music…Young girls who come into the canyon… The full foursome, with Michelle’s childish shouts actually pronounced in reverb. It’s a deliberate contrast, no question. Reflective thought…then, almost anger? John is thinking one thought, and then exploding with Michelle’s perspective: damn fillies are flocking to Denny’s house in the canyon; and in the morning I can see the tramps walking home; I used to just try to ignore it; but now I have to speak out.
The song should end there, but John finds more to say. However, it is something he only interprets himself. He repeats the chorus three times. The last time he uses echo lyrics of the lines. He definitely wants to emphasize that chorus.
I think it’s the early character that draws people in, and then he hammers home his anger.
October 18, 2013 at 12:11 AM
Just an unnecessary note of agreement with those who say it's about the contrast between dirty/cold New York and Southern California. I'm not from California, but recognized the Laurel Canyon reference as such. Even if people don't know the name of the specific canyon, I think most people are aware there are hip canyony residential areas in LA from seeing them on TV or whatever. Additional though: it's kind of a Southern California companion-piece to "San Francisco," which was also written by John Phillips.
December 10, 2013 at 1:18 AM
My redone gay porn site
http://gay.adultgalls.com/?page_ezra
gay night clubs gay gifts gay pokemon jim carrey gay live gay chat
January 5, 2014 at 7:50 AM
All of these analyses on interpretation show so much knowledge and sensitivity that really speaks volumes about the writer. Each of you expresses him/herself in the most wonderful way and does the memory of the group all due respect and admiration.
November 8, 2015 at 2:30 PM
Simply put: The girls partied with the Rockers in the Canyon and would leave with the morning sun. They were visible to all from the area and that particular march from the Canyon's hidden homes to Sunset Blvd lasted 'til the mid eighties when the homes there skyrocketed in value and long haired types moved away to cheaper pastures. Read Pamela Des Barres book about groupies for a better explanation.
December 6, 2015 at 12:38 PM
Sad song lamenting our shallow distractions as user friendly victims and commodities for others profit or hedonism. When we came off the land to live in un natural industrialised enviroments with careers that compromise our integrity we started the journey away from what is real and intended for us. Solution is to go and find purpose wherever that may be but preferably in a natural surround. For example in a farming community everybody is needed regardless how dumb one may be as a purpose is readily available for all. Such lifestyle promotes self esteem, a community mindset that lubricates purpose and generates meaningful output for local needs not profit.
November 6, 2016 at 8:33 PM
12:30
basically creates two halves of the clock / Circle, one half represents New York and the other Los Angeles, just like the verse and chorus reflects the attitude of Nee York versus Los Angeles. It’s true a lot of young girls ran away from home seeking fame and fortune, and found themselves in Laurel Canyon drinking, tripping, and sleeping with their favorite rock stars. The lines about the water and the reflection refers to seeing them passed out, and unresponsive -mascara smeared & hair tangled, basically the morning after.
The hippie movement in the 60s for a moment created an atmosphere where people would say good morning or hello, or can I help you, and it made you feel good, and you felt like you were proud to be a human being, it didn’t last, but for a moment it was beautiful.
March 24, 2018 at 10:40 PM
I can’t keep myself from talking, do a line of Coke and try and stop talking LOL
March 24, 2018 at 10:55 PM
Besides the Canyon reference, the song title calls up a dissonant metaphor of a broken tower clock in a church steeple - churches do not commonly tell us the time of day, but do post scripture by chapter and verse. An uncommon steeple clock stuck at 12:30 (hour hand towards heaven, minute hand towards earth) makes an esoteric and perhaps unconscious cultural reference to love of God in Mark 12:30, which says "And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment." The melody and lyrics trace a transformation from metaphorical unconscious darkness to light, from grey to brightness, from the dark gloom of New York City to the joyful sunlight of Laurel Canyon in California, coherent with an emotional awakening and transformation in social awareness or fellowship. This otherwise arbitrary lyrical nonsense rhyme of twelve-thirty connects the transformation and brightening of awareness brought by social and spiritual enlightening, from an arrest of time or progress in the works of the City, to an awakening of artistic creativity in the Canyon.
September 21, 2020 at 5:00 AM