Talk:Caravanserai

"10th-century caravanserai of Khan al-Raba"?

During the American invasion of Iraq, "the courtyard of the 10th-century caravanserai of Khan al-Raba was used by the Americans for exploding captured insurgent weapons. One blast demolished the ancient roofs and felled many of the walls. The place is now a ruin" (Simon Jenkins in The Guardian). Do we have an article about that caravenserai? I can't find it. --Ghirla^-трёп- 07:37, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Every reference to this is based on one article, from The Guardian. Has it been indepedently verified? 138.162.128.52 (talk) 08:04, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

http://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/167/35661.html Klir2m (talk) 19:42, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

In music section

Do we really need references to songs with the word in their titles? Especially the complete discography of the Kitaro song seems excessive. Could this information be moved to a separate article? -- Margin1522 (talk) 00:58, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I'd prefer the entire music section be deleted (or moved to Caravanserai (music)) ? - Rod57 (talk) 11:21, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Who is in charge?

What do you call the person in charge of a caravansarai? 138.162.128.52 (talk) 19:06, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Caravanserai = Silk Road

Does anyone care to comment on or to add to this article the association of the term "Caravanserai" with the "Silk Road"? In my travels in Central Asia, I have heard this association numerous times in several countries (Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan). In these countries, the building (to which the main article refers) is usually called a "hana" - for example, "chaihana" (a tea-house) - and these hanas were typically found as waystations along the ancient Silk Road. So it would seem that they are the same as the "caravanserai" buildings refered to in the article. Drobezisi (talk) 15:09, 16 July 2009 (UTC)Drobezisi

Spelling

I realise that the word can be spelled in different ways but shouldn't it at least be the same in the headline and in the bold text in the introduction? And then maybe a paragraph about the different spellings? --Thathánka Íyotake (talk) 21:14, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

I totally agree, there should be a consensus about the spelling. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.147.182.248 (talk) 14:03, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

I think we'd better stick to the English language and respell the word caravansa as it is now, to caravansary or caravanserai all over the entry text. Some pros for this 1 No English dictionary gives the variant caravansara 2 Google hits give 300 000 or more clicks with caravansary versus 3 000 with caravansara. Complete rout of the latter variant 3 Encyclopædia Brittanica gives no variant for caravansara at all. 4 The examples of the usage of this word were somewhat doctored, respelling their original spelling caravanserai as caravansara, purportedly to justify the use of the word caravansara all over the text. Loreena McKennitt's album An Ancient Muse features a track titled Caravanserai. Link http://www.quinlanroad.com/explorethemusic/anancientmuse.asp The term also appears in the Gilbert and Sullivan operetta The Pirates of Penzance Yes, it did appear there, only it appeared as caravanserai, not caravansara Link https://www.gsarchive.net/pirates/pirates_lib.txt

So, pursuant to all those statements put forth above, I think the variant caravansary or caravanserai ( I really don't care which of them, but I would stick to caravansary) are much more in use than caravansara. I don't mind the inclusion of the variant caravansara in this text as an alternative spelling and in passages where it does fit, but to do it the top and foremost variant all over the article is not justified. If you think otherwise, please give your arguments and reasons for this, pure change of all the words with caravansara would be somewhat of vandalism IMO.

Please let's stick to the mainstream English so, therefore, I respell all the words caravansara inside the entry as caravansary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.147.171.51 (talk) 11:58, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

"Caravanserai" is by far the most popular in Google, Google Books, and Google Scholar, so I've standardized the article's spelling to that. Kaldari (talk) 18:11, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Gbook hits (-llc -wikipedia, counting only those with snippets) has "Caravansary" at ca. 450, "Caravanserai" at ca. 440, and "Caravanseray" at ca. 230, "Caravansaray" at ca. 110.--Zoupan 02:53, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Needs more detail

This article seems sparse. Perhaps some of the text at Sultanate_of_Rum#Culture_and_society could be used ? - Rod57 (talk) 11:08, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

In their construction of caravanserais, medreses and mosques, the Rum Seljuks translated the Iranian Seljuk architecture of bricks and plaster into the use of stone.[14] Among these, the caravanserais (or hans), used as stops, trading posts and defense for caravans, and of which about a hundred structures were built during the Anatolian Seljuqs period, are particularly remarkable. Along with Persian influences, which had an indisputable effect,[15] Seljuk architecture was inspired by Christian and Muslim Armenians.[16] As such, Anatolian architecture represents some of the most distinctive and impressive constructions in the entire history of Islamic architecture. The largest caravanserai is the 1229-built Sultan Han on the road between the cities of Konya and Aksaray, in the township of Sultanhanı depending the latter city, enclosing 3,900 square meters. There are two caravanserais that carry the name "Sultan Han", the other one being between Kayseri and Sivas. Furthermore, apart from Sultanhanı, five other towns across Turkey owe their names to caravanserais built there. These are Alacahan in Kangal, Durağan, Hekimhan and Kadınhanı, as well as the township of Akhan within Denizli metropolitan area. The caravanserai of Hekimhan is unique in having, underneath the usual inscription in Arabic with information relating to the edifice, two further inscriptions in Armenian and Syriac, since it was constructed by the sultan Kayqubad I's doctor (hekim) who is thought to have been a Christian by his origins, and to have converted to Islam.

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Etymology

It is written under the title of etymology that the word "khan" is of Persian origin and that the first caravanserai were made by persian. Both are wrong. Caravansaries were first built by the Seljuk Empire in the 10th and 11th centuries, and the word "khan" was taken from the word "han", which means "ruler" in Turkish. This should be corrected. In addition, the reason that the word "caravanserai" is of Persian origin, the Seljuks adopted Islam and admired the Persian language.Kartonpiyer (talk) 22:19, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

The section did indeed need some revising, as it's not a uniquely or even predominantly Persian-only word; however the word is of Persian origin. I've revised the section and added more references. Cheers, Robert Prazeres (talk) 23:21, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Just NO and your personal opinion is completely wrong. You better take a look at cited sources. Persian khan has nothing to do with a title like khan (see Khan (title)). They are two words with very different meanings. Each one of them has different etymology, origin, and root. Seriously who calls an inn/architecture a ruler? You can also see both words on Wiktionary[1] (Ottoman Turkish and Persian). Modern Turkish han is just a descendant of those two words. And didn't you read Caravanserai#History? How caravanserai is a Seljuk-only architecture when it existed before Seljuks in both pre-Islamic and Islamic eras? I think User:Robert Prazeres has done a good job by expanding and improving the article.[2] Now it covers all kinds of caravanserais; Arabian, Persian, and XYZ. The tone of article is neutral. --Wario-Man (talk) 05:11, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Revising image selection and removing gallery?

The article is now long enough that more images can be added in the main body of the text (instead of the gallery at the bottom), but currently the image selection there is entirely of Iranian examples (which are very relevant but not the full range of examples). I'm proposing to revise this a bit, try to keep the best images currently present but remove one or two and add more examples from Turkey, Egypt, Morocco, etc.
I'm also wondering whether the image gallery at the bottom of the page should be reduced or removed; as per WP:GALLERY, galleries should be avoided unless they are really helping the text. Now that the article is longer, as mentioned, a separate gallery is less useful. There is already a list of "notable caravanserais" before this too so readers can go to these links to see more about various caravanserais. Or, an alternative to removing the gallery entirely might be to include a smaller gallery in the "notable caravanserais" section to show off interesting examples that wouldn't fit elsewhere, if desirable. Robert Prazeres (talk) 18:28, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

The khan is often NOT an "urban caravanserai"

"[The khan is] typically referred to as an "urban caravanserai" built within a town or a city." There are too many examples of khans outside towns as to leave it standing like this. It must be qualified, or else the user is misled. I don't know, maybe it's true in Persian- and Turkish-influenced regions, but not in other ones? All the caravanserais in historical Palestine are called khan, and a majority of those I can think of are at major road junctions and next to bridges, with no settlement anywhere in sight. Maybe elsewhere in the Middle East too. Arminden (talk) 20:47, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Yeah this looks like an oversight due to limited sources. Both citations there do kind of say that "khan" is for caravanserais in town rather than the countryside, but that can't be true overall as the word is used for nearly all Turkish caravanserais both in and out of cities, for example. I can go ahead and change that, if it helps, though I'll look for a quick source to justify the qualification, so it doesn't stand out as unsourced. Thanks for noticing, Arminden. R Prazeres (talk) 21:38, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

"Funduq" not restricted to Maghreb

"The term funduq is frequently used for historic inns in Morocco and around western North Africa." In Jordan too, and that's in Sham, not Maghreb. Maybe in the wider Middle East too. Needs more research. Arminden (talk) 20:53, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

I'm sure the word is used elsewhere too, but in the Maghreb it stands out as the one standard and most commonly used term, in contrast with Cairo, Damascus, and Turkish cities (where "khan" is mostly used, and "wikala" too in Cairo at least). That's easy to check with the source cited there but also with any reference that covers the monuments in those regions (e.g. for Morocco see the sources cited in the brief sections at Moroccan architecture#Funduqs, Landmarks of Marrakesh#Funduqs, etc). So that point should remain and it isn't dubious. That said, there's nothing there stopping the addition of examples of its usage elsewhere, which wouldn't be surprising; if you can cite some with sources, I'd encourage you to go ahead and add mention of this to that section. Cheers again, R Prazeres (talk) 21:51, 3 May 2021 (UTC)