Talk:Shoe

Semi-protected edit request on 24 November 2023

In the "Shoe" article it's listed that "foot straps" were used to bind the feet into the "lotus foot" shape, and is simply stated that it was used to "lure men". In fact foot binding, as it was specifically called (there is a wiki article here, which should be linked https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_binding ) they used silk bandages, started by breaking and binding the feet at a young age (around 3-7 years of age) and it was considered a mark of beauty, and a way to "ensure a husband", which is stated in the article. At one point almost 100% of Han upperclass women had lotus feet. The foot binding and lotus feet are not shoes specifically, but it may be important in reference to the shoes that accompany them (and are really not referenced aside from the photo). Recommend that "foot straps" be replaced with "silk bandages", and a brief, concise description of foot binding and a link to the page should be included in that section (as it is vaguely alluded to and needs to be more clear). Also recommend the later remark of "Chinese feminists called for the ban of the foot strap" be possibly linked directly to the section "decline" from the foot binding article, and clarified to be that many called for the ban of foot binding, which started with Chinese writers calling the practice into question and an Anti Foot-Binding Society being formed. The editor can use discretion of what to add within this section, as there is a lot of information and a fair amount is not necessary to the shoe article.

Also in the article a phase states "the upper is lasted to the sole" which is not possible, as a "shoe last" is for shaping shoes and is more modern than the reference. I'm not sure how it would be rephrased, as the "shoe" article states that uppers being sewn to soles is more modern, as well as gluing, but I figure I might as well point it out. Damien-Silverfang (talk) 13:40, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Damien-Silverfang: your requests are more likely to receive attention if you

1. Put each request in a separate section with its own request template, instead of shoe-horning two requests into one section
2. Specify exactly what change you want made.   Maproom (talk) 20:51, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: Please heed Maproom's advice. This request is too difficult to follow, with regard to what parts should be changed, versus what is an addition.

When creating a request, please be specific about what X should be changed to Y, or where specifically Y should be inserted into X (or, possibly what X should be deleted entirely). It is best to separate each instance into their own requests. Be sure to provide reliable sources for each individual edit request (even if the sourcing repeats).

-- Pinchme123 (talk) 04:23, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

I came to look at the talk page to see if there were any comments on the peculiar language ("foot straps," "lotus feet") used on this page for what's usually referred to as foot binding, and decided following reading this simply to replace the phrases with the usual English "foot binding" and "bound feet". I don't know if I managed to change all of them.

However, I agree that the relevance of the passages on foot binding is limited unless the page says something about the nature of the shoes that were worn when feet were bound and the styles adopted when the practice was forbidden. And also that links to the relevant page on foot binding should be added.

FloweringOctopus (talk) 10:29, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 December 2023

Change "bone points bone awals" to "bone awls" under History. 134.88.137.102 (talk) 08:22, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done Tollens (talk) 09:49, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Prehistoric footwear

I hope to add some content on on prehistoric adoption of footwear to Shoe § History. Here are some sources I put together in a fairly thorough Google Scholar search:

Prehistoric footwear sources

Bennett, Matthew R.; Reynolds, Sally C.; Morse, Sarita A.; Budka, Marcin (2016). "Footprints and human evolution: Homeostasis in foot function?" (PDF). Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology. 461: 214–223. doi:10.1016/j.palaeo.2016.08.026. Harjula, Janne (2008). Before the heels: Footwear and Shoemaking in Turku in the Middle Ages and at the Beginning of the Early Modern Period. Archaeologia Medii Aevi Finlandiae. Vol. 15. Turku: Suomen keskiajan arkeologian seura. ISBN 978-951-96801-7-0. Helm, Charles W.; Lockley, Martin G.; Cawthra, Hayley C.; De Vynck, Jan C.; Dixon, Mark G.; Rust, Renée; Stear, Willo; Van Tonder, Monique; Zipfel, Bernhard (2023-04-03). "Possible shod-hominin tracks on South Africa's Cape coast". Ichnos. 30 (2): 79–97. doi:10.1080/10420940.2023.2249585. ISSN 1042-0940. Holt, Brigitte M. (2003). "Mobility in Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic Europe: Evidence from the lower limb". American Journal of Physical Anthropology. 122 (3): 200–215. doi:10.1002/ajpa.10256. ISSN 0002-9483. Ledoux, Lysianna; Berillon, Gilles; Fourment, Nathalie; Muth, Xavier; Jaubert, Jacques (2021-11-23). "Evidence of the use of soft footwear in the Gravettian cave of Cussac (Dordogne, France)". Scientific Reports. 11 (1). doi:10.1038/s41598-021-02127-z. ISSN 2045-2322. PMC 8610977. PMID 34815459. Levy, Janet (2017). "Sartorian vestments in the Southern Levant: Headwear, footwear, girdles, sashes and shrouds, 15,000-5,900 BP cal.". In Gonen, Sharon; Ronen, Avraham (eds.). Suyanggae and her neighbours in Haifa, Israel: Proceedings of the 20th congress June 21-28, 2015. Oxford: Archaeopress. pp. 60–79. ISBN 978-1-78491-538-4. Macintosh, A.A.; Pinhasi, R.; Stock, J.T. (2014). "Lower limb skeletal biomechanics track long-term decline in mobility across ∼6150 years of agriculture in Central Europe". Journal of Archaeological Science. 52: 376–390. doi:10.1016/j.jas.2014.09.001. Pearson, O. M., Pablos, A., Rak, Y., & Hovers, E. (2020). A Partial Neandertal Foot From the Late Middle Paleolithic of Amud Cave, Israel. PaleoAnthropology, 2020, 98-125. doi:10.4207/PA.2020.ART144 https://www.paleoanthropology.org/ojs/index.php/paleo/article/download/801/762 Pinhasi, Ron; Gasparian, Boris; Areshian, Gregory; Zardaryan, Diana; Smith, Alexia; Bar-Oz, Guy; Higham, Thomas (2010-06-09). "First Direct Evidence of Chalcolithic Footwear from the Near Eastern Highlands". PLoS ONE. 5 (6): e10984. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0010984. ISSN 1932-6203. PMC 2882957. PMID 20543959. Pop, Marlena V. (2013). "Paleology and Old History of Footwear in Romania". Revista de Pielarie Incaltaminte (in English and Romanian). 13 (3): 235–246. Qualls, Clifford; Evans, Peter; Perciaccante, Antonio; Bianucci, Raffaella; Lippi, Donatella; Appenzeller, Otto (2018). "The Human Hand and Foot in Evolution and Art: The Effects of Wearing Footwear". Journal of Biometrics & Biostatistics. 9 (2): 394ff. doi:10.4172/2155-6180.1000394. Soffer, Olga (2004). "Recovering Perishable Technologies through Use Wear on Tools: Preliminary Evidence for Upper Paleolithic Weaving and Net Making". Current Anthropology. 45 (3): 407–413. doi:10.1086/420907. ISSN 0011-3204. JSTOR 10.1086/420907. Soffer, Olga; Adovasio, James M. (2010-09-01). "The roles of perishable technologies in Upper Paleolithic lives" (PDF). In Zubrow, Ezra B. W.; Audouze, Françoise; Enloe, James G. (eds.). The Magdalenian Household: Unraveling Domesticity. The Institute for European and Mediterranean Archaeology Distinguished Monograph Series. Albany, New York: State University of New York Press. pp. 235–244. ISBN 978-1-4384-3367-7.</ref> Sorrentino, Rita; Stephens, Nicholas B.; Carlson, Kristian J.; Figus, Carla; Fiorenza, Luca; Frost, Stephen; Harcourt‐Smith, William; Parr, William; Saers, Jaap; Turley, Kevin; Wroe, Stephen; Belcastro, Maria G.; Ryan, Timothy M.; Benazzi, Stefano (2020). "The influence of mobility strategy on the modern human talus" (PDF). American Journal of Physical Anthropology. 171 (3): 456–469. doi:10.1002/ajpa.23976. ISSN 0002-9483. Trinkaus, Erik (2005). "Anatomical evidence for the antiquity of human footwear use" (PDF). Journal of Archaeological Science. 32 (10): 1515–1526. doi:10.1016/j.jas.2005.04.006. Retrieved 16 December 2023. Trinkaus, Erik; Jashashvili, Tea; Patel, Biren A. (2021-02-27). "Perspectives on Pliocene and Pleistocene Pedal Patterns and Protection: Implications for Footprints". In Pastoors, Andreas; Lenssen-Erz, Tilman (eds.). Reading Prehistoric Human Tracks: Methods & Material (PDF). Cham: Springer. pp. 121–132. doi:10.1007/978-3-030-60406-6_7. ISBN 978-3-030-60405-9. Trinkaus, Erik; Shang, Hong (2008). "Anatomical evidence for the antiquity of human footwear: Tianyuan and Sunghir" (PDF). Journal of Archaeological Science. 35 (7): 1928–1933. doi:10.1016/j.jas.2007.12.002. Villotte, Sébastien; Churchill, Steven E.; Dutour, Olivier J.; Henry-Gambier, Dominique (2010). "Subsistence activities and the sexual division of labor in the European Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic: Evidence from upper limb enthesopathies". Journal of Human Evolution. 59 (1): 35–43. doi:10.1016/j.jhevol.2010.02.001. Zipfel, B.; Berger, L.R. (2007). "Shod versus unshod: The emergence of forefoot pathology in modern humans?". The Foot. 17 (4): 205–213. doi:10.1016/j.foot.2007.06.002.

Trinkaus (2005) is a good place to start, and would alone significantly improve this article. Feel free to add content from these sources now. If not, I'll get around to it eventually. Daask (talk) 01:02, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Advertisement template

The current version of the Wikipedia article on shoes exhibits an advertisement-like tone in certain sections, such as Athletic Shoes, Boot, and Dress and Casual Shoes. These sections contain detailed brand histories, specific product names, and descriptions that resemble promotional material rather than neutral, encyclopedic content. For instance, the Athletic Shoes section includes detailed accounts of brand histories and specific product names, which can be seen as promotional rather than informative. Similarly, the Boot section contains detailed descriptions of specific types of boots and their features, including mentions of specific brands, which might be interpreted as promoting those brands rather than providing neutral information. Additionally, the Dress and Casual Shoes section includes detailed brand information and specific product types, which could be perceived as more suited to a marketing brochure than an encyclopedia article. To align with Wikipedia's standards of neutrality and reliability, the article should be revised to present information in a neutral and educational manner, focusing on the historical, cultural, and functional aspects of different types of shoes, while ensuring that claims about specific brands or products are supported by reliable sources. Cleter (talk) 01:49, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Chopines origin

@PCC556: re your edit here, which you summarise: "Chopines were never worn in Turkey and the source used to back that claim is a random blog. Historical evidence and academics point to chopines originating in were invented in Spain".

Given your strongly-expressed edit summary, can you please explain, by responding here, why you believe such a definitive change from ""Also during the 15th century, chopines were created in Turkey, and were usually 7–8 in (180–200 mm) high." to instead "... created in Spain ...", is justified by citing only Anderson (1979) which says (for example)?:

Examples of the chopine, imperfect but probably the earliest in existence, have been recovered from piles of rubbish under a stair at the Alhambra ...

— Anderson, Ruth Matilda (1979). Hispanic costume, 1480-1530. Hispanic Society of America. ISBN 978-0-87535-126-1. p. 229 [emphasis added]

from the previous version of the article?

You made a similar drastic change at Chopine, inserting into first sentence of lead: "... of spanish [sic] origin" and "Chopines originated in Spain in the 14th century and spread to Italy and other parts of Europe throught [sic] the 15th century". This is also concerning (i.e. similar lack of discussion or consensus-building, poor sourcing, for a very fundamental change). Thanks, AukusRuckus (talk) 08:32, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

edit request 2024

Barefoot shoes is a type of shoe, not yet listed in the "types" section. 173.222.1.141 (talk) 06:05, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

another edit request 2024

add Cordwainer and Shoemaking to the see also section 173.222.1.141 (talk) 06:34, 22 September 2024 (UTC)