Robert McClenon

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Feedback request: Society, sports, and culture request for comment

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Feedback request: Society, sports, and culture request for comment

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Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment

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Denice Zamboanga

Hello, Robert,

I saw you nominated this article for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Denice Zamboanga and it was deleted in a unanimous decision. But it has since been recreated by a sockmaster. I just came across it as I was handling one of their sockpuppets. Do you think this article has improved or does it warrant a second visit to AFD? Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:15, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

User:Liz - The article does not differ enough from the deleted article to satisfy notability. I have sent it on a second visit to AFD. Robert McClenon (talk) 04:46, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

For handing out "low-quality prizes" ...

		The Winnowing Fan Barnstar
		... this is the only proper thing to do! Well played, sir! Ravenswing 02:38, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, User:Ravenswing. I hadn't seen that barnstar, or some of the related barnstars. Interesting. A trout is a low-quality prize, but lacks originality. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:53, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

You're quite welcome! Ravenswing 09:23, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Climate Change RfC Closure

Robert McClenon and InformationToKnowledge, FYI: I requested closure [1] Bogazicili (talk) 18:44, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Precious

Eight years!

Robert Schumann is up for FAC, perhaps take a look. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:38, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

AfD

I saw the Matias Fernandez-Pardo AfD and just wanted to give you a heads up that the combativeness you're dealing with from EpicAdventurer is something I tried to help with awhile back that was summarized here. I still wonder how much a mentor type situation would help out with that editor, but the tone at that AfD doesn't look super promising either. In short, it's not just you, and you're being pretty even-handed with the draftify. KoA (talk) 22:06, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

User:KoA - It doesn't really matter whether they are angry at me or angry at everybody, and I agree that it is the latter. I thought of reporting them at WP:ANI for the personal attack and decided it was better to leave it alone. Anyway, User:GiantSnowman is an admin, and will warn them if he thinks that they need warning. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:18, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I was in the same boat about thinking about ANI for a time after seeing that, but moreso hoping someone could given them guidance to steer away from the cliff rather than trying to get them blocked. ToBeFree tried to give them some guidance after their last warning[2], so hopefully between the two of those admins things get turned around. KoA (talk) 03:04, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

User:KoA - I think that mentoring is very seldom useful for users who have a problem with anger. They are usually just angry people. There is only so much that a mentor can do to tell them not to express their anger, and eventually they will be blocked. There are two risks that I see. First, when the angry user is taken to WP:ANI again, they may be given one more warning than is appropriate, because they have the mentor. That is no big deal. Second, they may burn out the mentor. That may be a big deal, because the mentor is a valuable editor. It is less bad to lose the angry user too soon than to lose the mentor. So I think that we should either ignore angry users, warn them, or block them, but not mentor them. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:03, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree with a lot of your sentiments about mentoring as you describe it actually. I was thinking in this case more of a one-time event of an editor they didn't view as being in dispute with walking through the behavior issues (and what to do instead) as a sort of last ditch effort. I guess when I say a bit of mentoring is needed, it's moreso someone like an admin going through the steps I just mentioned as a warning that is meant to guide rather than something that would cause them to just lash out. The latter might still happen regardless for a lot of editors in that situation too though. I guess I should have been clear I didn't mean full-blown mentorship as is sometimes used on-wiki. Either way, hopefully disruption is minimized. Not much else to done at this point at least. KoA (talk) 03:00, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Questionable drafts

Found a series of drafts by a user that are generally are junk, but a few which are unsettling, and would like your opinion on the series as a whole since you have more MFD experience than I and this isn't as clear cut as my other recent delnoms. Do you consider these to be (generally) mundane and not worthy of deletion, or is there enough of a pattern, especially with the pages WANNA F*** ME and SHOULD I KILL MYSELF that they are egregiously contrary to Wikipedia that this user is warn/ban worthy and this whole series is offensively deletable? U5 will not apply (user has edited in mainspace), so I was thinking G3s on most, and G10s on the offensive/problematic ones, but want a second opinion given the uncomfortable nature of these. Thanks for your thoughts, Zinnober9 (talk) 22:47, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

User:Zinnober9 - I will comment more in a little while, but that user needs to be indeffed. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:01, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

User:Zinnober9 - Thank you. I have reported the user at WP:ANI. They haven't edited in two weeks, but I think that when they try to edit, they should be expected to explain, in their unblock request, what they were trying to do. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:36, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

User is now blocked (with talk turned off) and the full set of drafts deleted. Thank you for your replies and taking this to ANI while I was eating dinner. I appreciate it! Zinnober9 (talk) 01:30, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

You're welcome, User:Zinnober9. I took it to WP:ANI while my dinner was cooking. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:35, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Grrr (2024 film)

Hello, Could you have a look at the Afd or the page and see if you don't wish to change your !vote, so that the page can be speedy-kept? Yours is currently the only !vote that's not a Keep and the nomination has been withdrawn. !Thank you. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 11:00, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Ukrainian language/Names/Rsk6400

Hello, Robert McClenon. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or draft page you started, "Names/Rsk6400".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:43, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Question about your comment.

How can I add a tag for a redirect to be deleted? Newtatoryd222 (talk) 13:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

User:Newtatoryd222 - Do you have Twinkle? If so, from the CSD tab, select AFC move. Then wait for an admin to delete the redirect. If not, either get Twinkle, or put {{db-afc-move}} at the bottom of the redirect. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:06, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

Did you mean Twinkl or Twinkle? Newtatoryd222 (talk) 16:09, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

User:Newtatoryd222 - I was not familiar with Twinkl, which is not related to Wikipedia. I mean the Twinkle gadget. Reviewers should be advised to install the Twinkle gadget. If you don't have Twinkle, add {{db-afc-move}} to the bottom of the redirect, and then install Twinkle. If you have Twinkle, use the CSD tab. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:39, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

DTParker1000

The discussion at AN/I seems to have been prematurely archived (to the second most recent archive) after being caught up in a preceding section missing its Archive bottom template. It might not be the only section, but I'm on mobile atm so its been tricky working out this much and I'm not going to attempt to fix it. Please could you take a look. Thanks Awkward42 (talk) [the alternate account of Thryduulf (talk)] 05:49, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes, User:Awkward42, User:Thryduulf, the thread has been archived. Whether it was premature depends on how you define premature archiving. The bot was working correctly, because there was no activity in that thread for 72 hours. The archival wasn't early; the closure was late. There were six editors supporting the topic-ban and the proposer, for seven supports and no opposition. Robert McClenon (talk) 15:09, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for taking a look, it really wasn't clear on mobile. Thryduulf (talk) 21:34, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Please do not prefix draft-protected category links with colon

Hi Robert. Thanks for your reviews, contributions, project comments, and everything else you do. One thing: few users who create drafts bother to nest their categories inside a {{Draft categories}} template, but it's wonderful when they do, and I wish everyone did. This guarantees that categories are handled properly both on the Draft page (that is, displayed, but not categorized), and, crucially, also in mainspace whenever the Draft is released there, with no update required. This is true even if they forget to remove the {{Draft categories}} template, which is the whole point of using it: it handles categories differently, but correctly, in each namespace.

When you precede draft-protected categories with a colon, as you did in this edit at Draft:French Pavilion of Versailles, it defeats the whole purpose of having the {{Draft categories}} template, and means that when someone releases the page to mainspace, the categories will still be links, not categories, requiring someone to edit the article again to enable the categories (if they remember that they're disabled). The whole beauty of {{Draft categories}} is that it works in both, and you don't have to remember anything. I hope I can persuade you to add the {{Draft categories}} template to Drafts that don't have them, if you happen to be reviewing an article and head down to the footers of the Draft to check them out. Once again, thanks for all you do. Mathglot (talk) 07:50, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

User:Mathglot - I would like your permission to copy this to the Articles for Creation talk page. At this time I am asking User:Novem Linguae if shehe will take a look. I almost never edit categories. I know that I know little about categories. The edit in question was a case where I pressed a button to invoke the AFCH script, and the rest of the editing was done by the script. I think that this is an issue with the script. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:52, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi, Robert; I suspected it may be something like that, because after I wrote you, I noticed similar edits to categories in other drafts up for Afc review. (I am not a habitué there, but am starting to learn a bit.) There is another angle to this, which is that there is a bot (DannyS712 bot 3) that adds colons to disable category links in drafts; that is being looked at right now with a view to a possible change to bot operation to use {{Draft categories}} instead—see this discussion. I have no idea if the bot and Afc are linked in any way, or if that is just coincidental and therefore o/t to the Afc aspect of this. You are of course welcome to copy any portion of this discussion or just take the central idea and rework it at Afc in your own way; I know I can be wordy sometimes, and I'm not particularly knowledgeable about Afc, so you may be able to distill the essential idea in a way that is clearer for folks there. Any way you want to do it, is fine with me. Mathglot (talk) 19:52, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Just reread the bot conversation, and it looks like the two are related somehow through the AFCH helper script, although I don't know how. Mathglot (talk) 21:15, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes, User:Mathglot, that is what I was saying. The category edits were made by the AFCH helper script when I pushed a button. I was inserting a comment into a draft. The comment included a template that was expanded by a bot, but that is a detail. It appears that the script also edited the categories. I was aware that the helper script sometimes did various sorts of cleanup. As I said, I very seldom edit categories. Because I know that I know little of categories, when I accept a draft, I normally tag it as {{Improve categories}} so that gnomes will edit the categories. I don't mess with categories, so I knew that it was the helper script. Robert McClenon (talk) 21:47, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

You did say that, and I must've glossed right over it as it didn't ring a bell until I reread the bot discussion, so it sounds like you nailed it at the outset. Not sure where we go from here, but likely the outcome of that conversation will play a role, and if the bot is updated per the request, it sounds like the problem will go away on the Afc side, iiuc. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 22:04, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

I have pinged you, User:Mathglot, at the AFC talk page. Some of them know more about how the script works than I do. Robert McClenon (talk) 22:32, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Psst, Novem Linguae has his preferred pronouns set and they are he/him. – Joe (talk) 08:13, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Pro tip: if unsure, you can use any of the {{they}}-series of templates, like {{they|Novem Linguae}} → he;{{their|Bishonen}} → her; {{they have|Joe Roe}} → he has; {{they do|Joe Roe}} → he does;{{them|Mathglot}} → them; and so on. Mathglot (talk) 08:25, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Oh this is amazing. Thank you @Mathglot for sharing that. (Sorry for the clutter @Robert McClenon!) Star Mississippi 17:24, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Happy First Edit Day!

Please

Next time you think it important to be clever, could you please not perpetuate stereotypes of blended families? Floquenbeam (talk) 18:11, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

User:Floquenbeam - Point made. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:16, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Beuys (disambiguation) (July 14)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by TechnoSquirrel69 was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Beuys (disambiguation) and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

—TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 05:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Robert McClenon! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 05:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Help with submitting a dispute resolution request

I need help with submitting a dispute resolution request. This is what I want to post in the request:-

IntGrah is removing text from the Abdullah Azzam article. See this, this and this edit. He is just removing text because he doesn't like it! Some dispute resolution is needed here. He is even defending the removals here. He has even reverted sourced content with this edit. Then, when I propose what can be added here with sources, he doesn't bother to respond!-Ganeemath (talk) 17:18, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

@Ganeemath, you have pinged me more than ten times in many places including WP:3O and WP:DR about the same thing. Please keep it to a single discussion thread. IntGrah (talk) 17:27, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

I am sorry about that. I will wait for Robert to start the dispute resolution process now and not ping you again.-Ganeemath (talk) 17:30, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

User:Ganeemath, User:IntGrah - Either of you can use the template at the Dispute Resolution Noticeboard to start the dispute. If you try to use it and have difficulty, then please let me know to start the dispute myself. However, the parties to the dispute normally file the dispute, after which point I can begin mediation. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:25, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Ricardians

Yes, that's right - people who insist that the half-Welsh, half-French Henry VII must have murdered the Princes in the Tower because he wasn't a true-blooded Englishman like Richard III. Some still complain about him being represented as a hunchback, even though the archaeologists recognised his bones by the very feature of a hunched back. Deb (talk) 12:23, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

User:Deb - Thank you. Every country has its own historical villains, some of whom have been recognized longer than others. That is interesting about the archaeologists. I assume that you are referring to the recent discovery of his bones, which were then reburied with state honors, because a villain king is still a king. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:13, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes. I wouldn't dream of suggesting he wasn't a king. Deb (talk) 19:02, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

User:Deb - And Henry VII of England had a great fondness for gold and silver. Robert McClenon (talk) 21:46, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes - he left England in a great position financially, but then his son went and spent it all and had to ransack the monasteries for more! Deb (talk) 09:09, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Question about dispute resolution protocol

G'day, I would like to know about the DR protocol sequence. We have long term disput with lots of discussions in TP so I prepared DRN request upon agreement to come here, but we never formally went through any methods that precede DRN - we didn't request for third opinion, and we didn't request for comment. My question is, can we just skip procedures that precede the DRN, is that even OK, and if we fail here, can we go back to RfC, etc.? Also, if I post a request today, but am unable to participate from this Monday until next Sunday, is it possible to ask that the discussion be put on hold rather than closed? ౪ Santa ౪^99° 15:51, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) Hey Santasa99. There's no prescribed order for DR, and provided there's been thorough local discussion, no DRN volunteer would decline a case due to a lack of 3O or RfC. The RfC option will definitely still be available after a DRN case, and often the result of DRN is a well-crafted RfC. I would not recommend filing a case if you're not available to follow up for many days. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 15:56, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm moving, and my cable informed me just now to come on this Monday to cancel cable and Internet from the old address on this Monday and apply for connection at the new address. It usually takes 3-4 days, but to be on the safe side I would say all will be finished on Monday, July 29. If it's too long, I'll ask the other participants that we postpone, hopefully they won't mind. Anyhow, thank you very much, I really appreciate it. ౪ Santa ౪^99° 16:22, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

User:Santasa99 - The prerequisite for DRN is extensive article talk page discussion. The ability to take part in DRN discussions at least every 48 hours is also required. If you will be off-grid for several days, I agree with User:Firefangledfeathers that you should wait to file the case until you have reliable connectivity again. Far from preceding DRN, an RFC (as Firefangledfeathers says) may follow DRN, and I may decline DRN if there has been a recent RFC and it has established rough consensus. DRN should not be used to override or change the result of an RFC. (I will conduct DRN if there was an unsuccessful RFC, but not if the only problem was that someone didn't like the result.) So I will be ready for a case to be filed in a few days or a week (but I am usually ready for a case to be filed). Robert McClenon (talk) 18:09, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Robert, I appreciate. I will ask the guys that we postpone for a week. We had extensive TP discussion, but we didn't have RfC or asked for 3O, I believe we are good to go with DRN next week. Thanks again and hopefully see you soon. ౪ Santa ౪^99° 19:46, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Please reply at the MfD

You're not making sense there. Nothing unusual is happening, except for the MfD for a draft article that is not finished or perfect. No rules have been broken. I am within the rules for article creation. I'm doing what many experienced editors do when they create articles in their userspace. Please explain yourself there. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 02:37, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

User:Valjean - I had already seen your questions at the MFD, but had other priorities besides answering your questions. Bludgeoning an AFD, MFD, or DRV is usually not the most effective approach. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:45, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Ngāti Tukorehe

Hi. You added a comment to Draft:Ngāti Tukorehe a few months ago that said it was a "draft on a subtopic of an existing article, Ngāti Tukorehe". But Ngāti Tukorehe is just a redirect, not an article. Did you mean to say something different? Thanks. Nurg (talk) 08:38, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

User:Nurg - Yes. I meant to discuss at Talk:Ngāti Raukawa, since there seem to be differences of opinion as to whether Ngāti Tukorehe is a subtribe of Ngāti Raukawa or a separate tribe. Yes, I made a mistake. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:49, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Ok. I see you have fixed your comment. Thanks very much. Nurg (talk) 03:05, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Camarines

Hi Robert,

You marked Draft:Camarines as "under review", and haven't accepted nor declined. Are you still reviewing this? A friendly reminder. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 09:43, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

User:SafariScribe - I forgot about it. I have dropped it from review so that you can look at it. I will take another look at it, but it's your turn now if you wish. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:30, 31 July 2024 (UTC)