VenFlyer98

AMS Delta PDX date

What did you change the date format? Since this is a European airport, shouldn’t the format be Day/Month/Year? 2600:1700:8544:D000:CD4C:E5E4:C3C8:23DC (talk) 12:36, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Correct. Don’t know why you changed it to MM/DD/YYYY after, then. It’s all fixed now. VenFlyer98 (talk) 18:15, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

New Orleans Airport - Breeze Airways routes

I've changed the sources to Simple Flying for both MSY-LAS, MSY-LAX. Both of these websites correctly source what you can find and book directly on flybreeze.com. I wouldn't source an O/D pair without it being bookable directly on the airlines webpage. Bretonrlong (talk) 04:16, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Bretonrlong:,

I know Breeze has these routes bookable. However, none of the sources you’ve provided meet WP:RS. SimpleFlying is not reliable either (see WP:SIMPLEFLYING).

Thanks! VenFlyer98 (talk) 02:16, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

This has got to be one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard of. So because someone considers these data sources to “not be reliable” the page is displaying incorrect destination information for the airport. This page is UNRELIABLE!! The route is literally bookable directly on Breezes own website, how much more reliable can you get. Bretonrlong (talk) 22:50, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

@Bretonrlong:

This is the policies of Wikipedia, please see WP:RS and WP:V. You need reliable, secondary sources. The ones you are providing are not reliable. I am not the only one who would consider these unreliable, plenty of users do. Not sure how often you edit airport articles, but they need to follow Wikipedia's policy on reliability. If you find a reliable source, then add it so the article is accurate, but don't get angry at me for following Wikipedia's own policies. VenFlyer98 (talk) 23:57, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

I've actually been editing airport articles for years. It makes zero sense to need a secondary source if the airline themselves offer said service FOR SALE on their own website. What exactly is needed for proof a receipt of purchase? I would never trust any secondary source over the primary airline source. By reverting the page it not only makes the wiki page unreliable, but also reduces public trust in the page. As for some of the airline blogs, especially those that appear to now be AI generated, I understand your point completely and agree those shouldn't be sourced. However, if the airline itself is offering the service and its bookable directly on their website (not through a third party website) that should be considered a source truth (better than a secondary source). Bretonrlong (talk) 00:27, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

This is the part I have a beef with

"I know Breeze has these routes bookable. However, none of the sources you’ve provided meet WP:RS. SimpleFlying is not reliable either (see WP:SIMPLEFLYING)."

Curious, why are you just undoing rather than contributing and providing better sources? In the above statement you even admit the routes are bookable. So if several hundred passengers book this service, but no one writes an article about said service, that service doesn't exist? Bretonrlong (talk) 00:33, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Does this article suffice?

https://neworleanscitybusiness.com/blog/2024/07/08/breeze-airways-adds-nonstop-route-from-new-orleans-to-tourist-destination/ Bretonrlong (talk) 00:35, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

@Bretonrlong: It has been discussed numerous times at WP:AIRPORTS that you need RELIABLE SECONDARY sources for airline routes (see WP:AIRPORT-CONTENT, which states "airlines and destination tables may only be included in articles when independent, reliable, secondary sources demonstrate they meet WP:DUE. A review of the closure of that RfC yielded no consensus to overturn it"). There has been RfCs about this before and most recently, it was agreed that these tables need secondary, reliable sources when adding information. As for me reverting, I have been trying to find better sources but none are available yet and I couldn't find any. The link you provided is the best one I found, it just doesn't mention the date for the LAX route. Additionally, using the airline's own website and booking engine is WP:OR, which is why that isn't allowed to be a source. Feel free to trust the primary source, but on Wikipedia we use secondary reliable sources. VenFlyer98 (talk) 01:12, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Are you joking? With airlines routes you have to use published schedules…not news articles. Tofutwitch11 (talk) 21:03, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Stop adding incorrect information

I don’t know what the deal is, but BDL-IAH does not resume until March 2025 per United schedules. Your source is incorrect, just because it’s published on the internet does not mean it is right. It is outdated and inaccurate, please stop adding incorrect info. Tofutwitch11 (talk) 21:02, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

@Tofutwitch11: You need a reliable, secondary source. The airline’s schedule is a primary source that is WP:OR, and WP:AIRPORT-CONTENT states “The consensus among the participants in a 2023 request for comment (RfC) was summarized as follows: airlines and destination tables may only be included in articles when independent, reliable, secondary sources demonstrate they meet WP:DUE.” You can’t use primary sources (airline’s websites) as a source. Thank you. VenFlyer98 (talk) 01:49, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Wrong wrong wrong. So you are letting articles show wrong outdated info? I don’t get it. How can you keep saying that BDL-IAH starts in September when that is simply not true? Are you for real? What a joke this has become Tofutwitch11 (talk) 11:25, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Also, every single airport article has the AIRLINE SCHEDULES listed as a source for the destinations table. JFK- every source for the timetable is literally the airline schedules. So with your mindset I should be OK to remove the entire airlines and destinations page on every airport unless there is a source that isn’t from the airline or the airport (that would be too accurate or primary) to source the info from. Right? Tofutwitch11 (talk) 11:58, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Hello. This is a message to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions did not appear to be constructive and have been reverted. Please take some time to familiarise yourself with our policies and guidelines. You can find information about these at our welcome page which also provides further information about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. If you only meant to make test edits, please use your sandbox for that. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on my talk page. Thank you. Stop adding wrong information to the protect Tofutwitch11 (talk) 11:34, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

@Tofutwitch: Again, please see WP:AIRPORT-CONTENT. There was a big RfC at WP:AIRPORTS and the consensus was, when adding any information to destination tables on airport articles, you need a reliable, secondary source that supports your information which you have been failing to provide. The only reliable source for BDL-IAH shows the date. If it’s wrong, then please find a RELIABLE SECONDARY source that supports a different date. If you cannot, then leave the information alone. This is Wikipedia policy, please see WP:V and WP:RS. Thank you. VenFlyer98 (talk) 17:03, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

So then we should be deleting the entire destinations page for every airport, right? Because they all list the AIRLINE TIMETABLES as a source. Tofutwitch11 (talk) 18:34, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

@Tofutwitch11: This has been discussed before at WP:AIRPORTS and I’m not disagreeing with you about it, but that’s a much bigger issue for a different time. When it comes to adding information, however, you need a reliable, secondary source. VenFlyer98 (talk) 19:05, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

You can disagree about the tables, but arguing that you need a news article when nothing is more accurate than the primary source (airline) is ridiculous. It’s openly putting false information on the project. Airline schedules change constantly, and assuming there is a news article to report them all is insane. Yet even more insane is ignoring obvious truths to post a lie just because you have what you consider a “reputable source”, though outdated, clearly. Following “policy” (as you interpret) in a way that makes you publish inaccurate information is a waste. Tofutwitch11 (talk) 19:21, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

@Tofutwitch: It’s not about it being a “news article,” it’s about it being a reliable source. Booking engines (like Google Flights) do not meet WP:RS. If you add it again, I’ll probably just throw a “citation needed” or “better citation needed” since you seem to rather want to edit war than find a reliable source. Waste of energy on my end at this point. VenFlyer98 (talk) 21:40, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

I’ve provided 2 different sources for BDL-IAH. Tofutwitch11 (talk) 21:44, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

@Tofutwitch: Ok, that’s great, but they aren’t reliable sources. How many times can I say booking engines like Google Flights and FlightsFrom are not reliable? They are WP:OR. That makes them not reliable. You’ve been on Wikipedia for 15+ years at this point, you should understand Wikipedia policy. Seeing as you’d rather call my edits vandalism, you refuse to understand policy but I’m done at this point. VenFlyer98 (talk) 22:03, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Lol, this is ridiculous. You are out here putting obviously false information on Wikipedia, citing an outtdated and wrong source. When all the other tables are cited via airline timetables - what is wrong with this? Or why don’t you delete the whole table? Tofutwitch11 (talk) 22:05, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

If you really care about the accuracy of Wikipedia why are you sitting here debating me when it is glaringly obvious that the flights are not resuming September 25? Do you think United really would have this route NOT be bookable if it was starting in 2 months? And the many sources that you say are not reputable (yet they aren’t from United, and are reputable) that show March 30? FlightsFrom literally states on the website that flights start “03302025”. …. Tofutwitch11 (talk) 22:14, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

@Tofutwitch11: Of course I know when flights are beginning, but for Wikipedia, you need reliable sources that state this. You are not providing reliable sources. I really don’t understand what is so hard about understanding that and finding a reliable source. VenFlyer98 (talk) 22:23, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

So you are admitting the information for the September start is wrong and your source is out dated? Tofutwitch11 (talk) 22:24, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

@Tofutwitch11: and there is no reliable source that states such. Unless you find one, add it. You keep adding sources that are not WP:RS and edit warring with me. That’s vandalism. Why is this so hard to understand? VenFlyer98 (talk) 22:27, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Adding accurate information isn’t vandalism. Every airline / destination page is sourced to airline timetables. That being said, I found another source, FlightsFrom, that literally states the route starts 2025-0330. And yet you continue to revert my changes with your out dated source? No, that is vandalism. It is clear also that my source is correct, when cross referencing with the airline. Are you trying to make Wikipedia worse? spreading false info? Tofutwitch11 (talk) 22:30, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

All I’m saying is your sources are NOT reliable. Reliable sources are required on Wikipedia to be used as sources. You refuse to understand that and I’m starting to think we may be dipping into a competence issue here. Not sure how many times I can explain it. VenFlyer98 (talk) 22:37, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Certainly a competence issue. So what happens September 25 when the flights don’t start? We just leave the wrong information because there is no newer source? And how can you say that FlightsFrom is any different than your source? Also, again, if every airlines/destinations table uses airline website / timetables as a citation, how is this different? Still found another source… and you debate it. Imagine believing in the integrity of Wikipedia and then obviously publishing false info using an old source. Tofutwitch11 (talk) 22:44, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

However you want to cite it is up to you, but Avelo DAB-BDL starts November 8th. The only reason I'm even addressing this is you Level 3'd me for not citing, yet reverted it each time to your post and source which yields, at least regarding this city pair, incorrect information. Even after correcting with secondary sources to verify the date (DB News-Journal, WFTV), you again reverted it to November 7th. JSprague24 (talk) 04:23, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

@Jsprague24: All good, it was my bad. Think I just got confused. It’s all fixed now, my mistake. As I said on your talk page, just remember to try and not use bare URLs. As for the level 3, that was due to the original edit in addition to past edits you made unsourced. You’ve been making edits for several years, so you should be familiar with the policy regarding that. Anyway, as I said it was my bad. Thanks! VenFlyer98 (talk) 06:38, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

All good! Jsprague24 (talk) 17:45, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Disrespectful Without Permission

⚠️@VenFlyer98 If You Do It, Or If You Disobey me, I'll Block You For Watch You Did! You Blocking Me Because I Was Try To Replace Change To New Planes, Not Old, As Been 23.1 Years Ago, In You Don't Understand, YOU KNOW WHAT???? I HAD NO CHOICE, BUT YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE BLOCK IT, AND YET, YOU JUST BLOCK IT ME BECAUSE WATCH YOU DID, IN THAT IT SO UNACCEPTABLE SO PREPARE YOURSELF. JUST YOU WAIT IN SEE!!! I DON'T WANT TO HEAR YOU ANYWAY!!!!!!! Holoanimetiktok (talk) 15:43, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

@Holoanimetiktok: Uhhh…ok then. Just don’t WP:PA. VenFlyer98 (talk) 17:12, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Good! Holoanimetiktok (talk) 17:58, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

@Holoanimetiktok: I mean, don’t threaten me or anything like that. I don’t even really understand what you’re saying, but hey, you do you. VenFlyer98 (talk) 18:08, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

I know i know, but i'll stop that, and then, i'm calm down, In You apology accepted! I believe you!:) Holoanimetiktok (talk) 02:53, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Quick Question

Hi! Just a quick question for you. Why do you remove a route when it doesn't have a reliable source just to add it back with a better source. Shouldn't you just get the route and add the source? Thanks! Ryanlovestravel (talk) 13:30, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

@Ryanlovestravel: Hi, the source you used was a Twitter link which violates WP:UGC. Additionally, you didn’t include the start dates. Thanks! VenFlyer98 (talk) 18:12, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

I totally understand that, appreciate the reply. I was referring to an incident in March on the TPA page with Breeze. You send me a threatening message that was kind of rude for a route that was real, I just didn't have a source yet because I was new to actually editing on the platform. It's no big deal, I was just curious why you wouldn't just add a source to the existing route I wrote, instead of deleting what I wrote. No problem if you don't remember. Thanks! Ryanlovestravel (talk) 01:45, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

@Ryanlovestravel: Oh, that in March was because you added unsourced content. That message is pre-written by Twinkle and I used a level 3 warning since that wasn’t the first time you added unsourced content. Regardless if I reverted or just added the source, I would’ve sent that message anyway since you added unsourced content. Thanks! VenFlyer98 (talk) 02:32, 9 August 2024 (UTC)