Talk:Joker (2019 film)

evaluation by the earned money is nonsensical

you have to adjust for inflation, the number of richer people and the population in general, the price of the ticket and availability — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.38.129.137 (talk) 16:31, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Joker (2019 film). The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Rusted AutoParts 02:08, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Picking this up for review. Will have my assessment ready tomorrow. Rusted AutoParts 02:08, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

@Some Dude From North Carolina: Tackle the points below and I'll be back to check progress within the week. Rusted AutoParts 21:10, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

@Rusted AutoParts: As of August 29, I have finished all the requested improvements except the archiving references request, which I am currently working on. Some Dude From North Carolina^{wanna talk?} 23:47, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

• As a primary contributor to this article, I'm going to say what I said at my talk page: I don't think the article is ready for GA yet. There's still a lot of production information that's missing, there may be some unreliable sources cited, the post-release needs to be fleshed out, and some sections probably need some rewriting. JOEBRO64 00:14, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
  • I've looked more at the article, and I think it actually needs a lot of work before it's GA-ready. IMO this nomination should be pulled. JOEBRO64 00:24, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

It's a bit late now to pull it, please feel free to make the edits you think need to be made. Rusted AutoParts 01:07, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

@Rusted AutoParts: I have finished all the requested improvements. Some Dude From North Carolina^{wanna talk?} 00:31, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

I'm a bit stuck on how to proceed. @TheJoebro64: would you be willing to outline the issues you feel still need to be addressed? Rusted AutoParts 19:06, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Rusted AutoParts, it's basically all the refideas I'd added on the talk page. I'm extremely busy right now (my time to edit should open back up soon though), and looking over the article again I think it's probably fine for GA (I was probably a bit harsh above, it's just that if I had nominated it I probably would've done a lot more work). I had plans to eventually bring this to FAC so I can add the refideas once I have time. JOEBRO64 20:11, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

✓ Pass Rusted AutoParts 03:16, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Lead/Infobox

• No issues for Lead paragraph.
• Remove names after Frances Conroy in infobox's cast list. Those names are not included in the official billing block (Click credits at the bottom of the page if the link doesn't auto-show the block).

Plot

• Plot meets WP:FILMPLOT requirements.

Cast

• "Although Batman himself does not appear in Joker, it ends with the murder of Thomas and Martha, which in the comics inspires Bruce to take on the Batman persona.[34]" Not sure if this is needed information.

Production

• "Marc Maron, who had recently finished filming the third season of the web television series GLOW". His filming of GLOW should be deleted. It would've been of note if it affected his scheduling for the film, but it didn't.
• "Phillips confirmed he was in the process of editing Joker in March 2019.[88] At CinemaCon the following month, he stated the film was "still taking shape" and was difficult to discuss, as he hoped to maintain secrecy.[89] Phillips also stated that most reports surrounding the film were inaccurate, which he felt was because it is "an origin story about a character that doesn't have a definitive origin."[90]" There’s a bit of an overuse of "stated" here. For the third sentence about most reports put it to something like "Phillips also denied most reports surrounding the film"

Release

• Home media subsection would make more sense here than under Post-release.

Reception

• Looks good

Post-release

• Themes and analysis typically would have it's own section.
• With Home media and Theme and analysis being moved, Cultural impact becomes it's owns section.

Future

• Looks good

References

• Looks thoroughly archived, see if any other sources need archiving.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 22:23, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that President Donald Trump watched the 2019 film Joker with his friends and family at the White House and reportedly enjoyed it?

Improved to Good Article status by Some Dude From North Carolina (talk). Self-nominated at 16:46, 2 September 2020 (UTC).

• Passes DYK check, article promoted to GA on September 2, 2020, hook properly cited and matches reference contents. --benlisquare_T•C•E 14:25, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

"failed standup comedian" isn't accurate

For most of the film he is not a standup comedian, and though he fails in many ways, it's ambiguous as to whether he is failing at standup.

He has some nervous difficulties on stage during his first booking which is beyond the normal range of cringe for a first-time standup comic, but not by all that much. The rest of the show may have been (and probably was) abysmal, but if it was, we are not shown. He leaves with his confidence squarely intact (delusional or not) and a bunch of media attention that seems like it would be sufficient to get him further gigs. He was not cast out and he has not given up. That isn't failure. In order to succeed at anything we first need to do it badly a few times. It's okay to do things badly. If you are bad at something, you can get better at it. It's important to have that internalized. I am worried that the people who perceive Arthur as having failed in standup do not get that stuff, and that would be no way to live, and they should try to cultivate more faith in themselves and others.

(related note, I was reading, recently, many non-western cultures seem to engage in very little deliberate teaching, and some of it (as well as personal experience) is sort of suggestive to me of an innate human tendency to underrate peoples' capacities to learn. I wonder what that's about. I might consider a theory that... our capacity to learn has recently grown faster than our social instincts about learning could keep up with it... but I don't like this theory.)

Why are people saying "failed"? Where did that come from? I think there was a joker comic where that was the case, but you know, that's its own thing. Myas012 (talk) 04:54, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

updated to an aspiring stand up comedian.Asr1014 (talk) 06:35, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 January 2021

Plot summary currently reads: "... leaving swaths of the population disenfranchised and impoverished." The word "disenfranchised" means one has lost the right to vote. not that life is hard due to economic hardships. As such, the words "disenfranchised and" should be deleted leaving only "impoverished" in the referenced sentence. Mtbagg01 (talk) 21:14, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Comment From dictionary.com 1. to deprive (a person) of a right of citizenship, as of the right to vote. 2. to deprive of a franchise, privilege, or right.

A little more than voting. DonQuixote (talk) 21:28, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/disenfranchised includes: "deprived of some right, privilege, or immunity". A Google search shows that many reliable sources use the term about the plot. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:04, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Does this film count as a Batman film, in terms of Sub-Categories and what-not?

Yes this film is a DC film through and through, yes it's centered on Batman's nemesis more-so than any other film before it, but does it count as a Batman film itself, owing to the film's heavy use of the Wayne's as plot devices and the implication that Arthur Fleck may or may not, in fact, be Bruce Wayne's older half-brother? That, and the film employs many references to The Dark Knight Returns and Joker's arc in said story, only to segue to portraying Batman's origin story near the very end of the movie.Internet Informant (talk) 15:47, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

Introducing some homage or Easter eggs in Joker

Well, I watched Joker (2019 film), and I wonder why there is not any place and section to show homage and easter eggs in Joker; it adapt many source from multiple film, Martin's and several batman films.

If you cannot make a place for show homages, how about this way? Now Joker article includes this news story, introducing some homage source, such as "bad day" sentence from Batman: The Killing Joke, officer Debra Kane's name, Zorro, The Gay Blade, bat pole, etc. And also, Werner's bro Korea demonstrated 11 easter eggs from previous batman film, mainly The Dark Knight: police car scene, 'freak' word.[4](Korean)

I do not think that all of them are must included in Joker. But, I guess, is it ok that Debra Kane the officer in 'cast' paragraph, and "bad day" sentence and TDK homage is described as notes in 'Writing' paragraph, like notes in 'plot' paragraph at MCU film articles? It do not harm any portion, just adding new neutral information; at least, in 'Writing' paragraph, TDK also is added as motive film. Reiro (talk) 16:32, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Lots of poorly written sentences, and some awful ones.

Sorry, I don't have the time or inclination to rewrite any of this myself. I hope it will catch the eye of an interested editor.

The poorly written sentences that I found were in the Design/Set section:

"...said he established the filming location of Gotham Square in Newark as a film set because there was still poverty."

"that it is a more realistic name in the real world."

"The theater scene displays posters of Zorro, The Gay Blade and Excalibur, commonly found visual elements in other media when the parents of Bruce Wayne are dead, including Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.; additionally, the poster of Arthur, released in 1981, noticed a specific period in this film."

"The norm "Super Rat" in radio broadcast referred to Ratcatcher, one of the Batman villains..."

"Pogo's Comedy Club where Arthur played stand-up show is named after stage name of John Wayne Gacy, being notorious as "killer clown"."

"The billboard written "Ace in the hole", located on behind of clowns in the last scene, was from a line of Joker in The Dark Knight; "

I would hope everything I have marked above with a bold effect is obviously wrong to those reading this.

This list above is not necessarily exhaustive: I suggest looking at who added/edited the sentences I identified, and reviewing all of their edits (at the very least, on this page).

Ed10101 (talk) 22:58, 7 April 2022 (UTC)