Talk:Martin Heidegger

Poor introduction

The introduction is narrow-scoped and the explication of ideas lacks context -- if you're going to include pithy expositions they need to be sufficiently general that they sit in context with his broader thought, not just one work. As such, it's misleading to readers who might want to acquaint themselves with the thinker. The controversial elements need to be mentioned -- but the breadth of influence of his ideas suggest that his very questionable political activity and failures in his personal life can, at least in part, be evaluated separately from his philosophical output. To make the introduction more representative, his philosophical project and breadth of work needs to be outlined more fully, including mention of his influence on subsequent philosophy. 184.148.136.17 (talk) 02:10, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

"Biography" and "Personal Life"

What is the difference, and why are they considered separate segments? Is the same or similar logic applied to other parts of this article? 32.221.207.102 (talk) 20:40, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

I agree. These should be integrated. There is a strong case to make for continuing to maintain the Nazi stuff as its own section, but at least some of this material would probably fit better under a unified Biography section. Patrick J. Welsh (talk) 22:02, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

The essence of technology

Below I copy a section from the phenomenology page that did not really fit. It's sourced though, and since you don't have coverage here, I thought it might be incorporated. I leave the specifics to those actively involved on the page.

Cheers,

The "essence of technology"

According to Heidegger, the essence of technology is the way of being of modern humans—a way of conducting themselves towards the world—that sees the world as something to be ordered and shaped in line with projects, intentions and desires—a 'will to power' that manifests itself as a 'will to technology'. Heidegger claims that there were other times in human history, a pre-modern time, where humans did not orient themselves towards the world in a technological way—simply as resources for our purposes.

However, according to Heidegger this 'pre-technological' age (or mood) is one where humans' relation with the world and artifacts, their way of being disposed, was poetic and aesthetic rather than technological (enframing). There are many who disagree with Heidegger's account of the modern technological attitude as the 'enframing' of the world. For example, Andrew Feenberg argues that Heidegger's account of modern technology is not borne out in contemporary everyday encounters with technology. Patrick J. Welsh (talk) 20:00, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

References

overlapping lists of students

There is duplication in the lists of Heidegger's students at Marbug (unsourced) and Freiburg (two sources). If there is a mistake in the first list, it should be corrected; if students followed him, that should be stated explicitly to avoid interpreting the duplication as an error. Patrick J. Welsh (talk) 18:54, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Ideal TOC for Philosophy section?

At present, this article is quite disappointing in its treatment of Heidegger's philosophy, which — since this is is the only reason he has an encyclopedia entry — is a serious shortcoming.

My knowledge of the secondary literature is limited and surely outdated, but I know Being and Time reasonably well, and I can improve coverage of this part of his philosophy in neutral language sourced at least to his own writing.

I can also produce a short section on his work on the "essence of technology" and maybe some of his work on language. Possibly also his stuff on the work of art, although my assessment of this part of his philosophy is rather low—readers would probably be better served by a more sympathetic editor.

The whole project of producing a history of being requires someone else to step up. Based on my limited reading of the relevant texts, I am highly critical of this project. It belongs in the article, but I am not willing to do the research necessary to do an adequate job of presenting his positions. Even absent proper coverage, however, it would be helpful to create a place-holder section in the TOC.

What else needs to be covered? Just having a good TOC in place encourages productive edits. And the further away we get from Being and Time, the less I know. Suggestions for what needs to be covered (if possible, with good secondary sources!) in what sort of order are most welcome even if you cannot commit to making the edits yourself.

Cheers, Patrick J. Welsh (talk) 22:30, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

I've done some reorganization, and I've just added a new section "Being-in-the-world" that I think, together with the "Fundamental ontology" section, covers most of the major claims of Division I of BT.

I am hoping to write two more sections on BT: one on authenticity and das Man, and one on historicity.

Comments and suggestions most welcome!

Cheers, Patrick J. Welsh (talk) 22:33, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

I am going to cut back the section on "The Turn" because it is more of a debate about how to organize the scholarship than it is about Heidegger's actual thought, much of which remains absent or obscure in this article.

Besides the history of being section, I think we need sections on the three items mentioned above: technology, language, and art. Patrick J. Welsh (talk) 17:15, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

A lot of the material at Heideggerian terminology is more detailed than what appears on this page, and it also covers important concepts not covered here at all. Very little of it is sourced, which is unfortunate, but I still call attention to it as a potential resource. (My understanding of Wikipedia policy is that it is fine to copy material like this as long as you acknowledge it with a hidden HTML comment. I've also see notes to this effect added to the yellow box thing on the Talk page, which I'm guessing is more for more extensive borrowings, but I don't know the exact rules.) Patrick J. Welsh (talk) 17:24, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Reception in France

Does anyone have any thoughts on this section? Right now it is disproportionally long, and I believe it will remain so even as the treatment of Heidegger's philosophy expands. My suggestion would be to make use of WP:SS, that is, to break it off into its own article, which this article would summarize in about a paragraph with a link out to the "main article". Patrick J. Welsh (talk) 18:25, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

On closer reading, aside from being poorly sourced, much of this was either too much about Sartre' existentialism or redundant with material already covered in the Nazi section. I have condensed and integrated under the head of European reception.

For the time being, I am moving the material on the The Farías debate up to the Nazi section. It can be determined later how much to keep in what form. Patrick J. Welsh (talk) 14:01, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

REFSPAM issue

Nader El-Bizri or someone close to him appears, unsurprisingly, to be responsible for the large number of references to his work. I notice, in particular, the activity of Levantine, who I suspect is the author, and AcademeEditorial, who I would guess is a well-meaning student. But I'm not familiar with all the forensic tools used to determine such matters with greater certainty. For now, I am just going to scrape at least most of the offending references. Patrick J. Welsh (talk) 05:27, 27 August 2023 (UTC)