Talk:Valmiki

Removed to talk.

Removed following portion. Valmiki is a prime example in the disproof of the caste system as a religious system, seeing as he was a low-caste in the caste system showing this to be social rather than religious. Valmiki is wrongly said to have been a forest brigand, till the day Narada enlightened him. This has been proven otherwise by a contemporary study carried out by the late Dr Julia Leslie of the University of London's School of Oriental and African Studies and is set out in her book Hinduism and the Case of Valmiki.

When Lord Rama asked Sita to leave his palace because the subjects of his kingdom suspected her purity during her abduction by Ravana of Lanka (present day Sri Lanka), she obeyed the wish of Lord Rama and the people and was granted sanctuary by Lord Valmiki at his ashram, which is located in Amritsar and is currently known as Ram Tirath. It is here that her children Lava and Kusha were born. Rohitbd 15:02, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Legend of Ma-Ra-Ma-Ra...

Removed the portion referring to Valmiki being unable to pronounce "Rama".

The legend that Narada asked Valmiki to chant Ma-Ra-Ma-Ra... which turns out to be the same as chanting Ra-Ma-Ra-Ma... (i.e., Rama's name) is incorrect, as this is applicable only when written (and perhaps only in English), since the name "Raam" (the 'aa' is phonetically the sound of 'a' in the word 'ah') is written as "Rama" in English. This is an artefact of trying to write Indic words in English. In Sanskrit and most Indian languages, the true pronounciation (phonetic) of "Rama" is Raam or Raama (the 'aa' is phonetically the sound of 'a' in the English word 'ah') - the last 'a' (which occurs after 'm') is not uttered. So, saying Raa-Ma-Raa-Ma (which is correct if the 'a' in 'Ma' is not uttered) is neither compatible with Ma-Ra-Ma-Ra..., nor with Maa-Ra-Maa-Ra..., nor with Maa-Raa-Maa-Raa.... Additionally the legend holds true only in Hindi and Marathi where Maraa indeed means dead (in Hindi) and die (in Marathi), so Ma-Raa-Ma-Raa... is compatible with Raa-Ma-Raa-Ma Rohitbd 09:52, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

When was Ramayan written by Valmiki

Ramayan was written in Satyug. He taught the lessons of Ramayan to luv and kush also. So how that Ramayan reached to us when it was written at that time?

Agreed. At least, that should reflect in this article as Indian perspective.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Guttina (talk • contribs) 13:19, 26 August 2010 (UTC) 

Clean-up article

The article needs a large overhaul. For example, it constantly refers to the "Valmikis" which I'm guessing is a religious group, however they are not introduced anywhere in the article, but rather are just constantly referred to. Secondly, there is a lot of overlapping information regarding the Ramayan. Please keep in mind that a summary is not required - The Ramayana has it's own page. Finally, please refrain from using the name "Bhagavan/Bhagawan Valmiki" as it can be considered POV. Chopper Dave 01:53, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I would like to know, what exactly is a POV? Valmikis are a group of devotees that follow the teachings of Bhagwan Valmiki. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (User talk:talk • contribs) 16:19, 13 December 2006 (UTC).

POV means "Point of View". Eg If I wrote "Jesus is God", then this called "POV", as it's would be from my POV. Wikipedia doesn't allow POV articles. All articles must be written with a neutral tone.

In regards to Valmikis, great, however the article doesn't note this. Also, what is the difference between Valmikis and Balmikis? Chopper Dave 21:19, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Bhagavan doesn't always need to mean God. In samskritaM, "paramAtmA" means the supreme God, and that is not often used with anyone with a physical body. Bhagavan, on the other hand, can also be used as a title to indicate that he/she knows significantly lot about God himself. Of course, Bhagavan is also used to to address God himself, though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Guttina (talk • contribs) 13:26, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Valmiki/Balmiki

Balmiki is often the preferred way of spelling Valmiki by people from the state of Punjab in India.

Valmikis/Balmikis is the name given to devotees that follow the teachings of Bhagwan Valmiki as portrayed in the Yogavasistha and the Ramayana. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.7.144.65 (talk) 21:38, 14 December 2006 (UTC).

Discrimination by Hindus against the Valmiki community is still prevalent in modern day India. Please click on the following link:

http://onkar.blogspot.com/2006/10/im-dalit-how-are-you-this-is.html   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.110.39.217 (talk) 14:50, 3 February 2008 (UTC) 

Legend about valmiki

I edited the birth history of Valmiki he is not robber as every one thinks he is called agni shrama. There is external link : moralstories. Bhagwan Valmiki is frequently and ignorantly labelled as a robber by Hindus, there is a tendency to over-look hard facts please see the articules by Dr Manjula Sahdev under Writings and Articules on the following link:

http://www.bhagwanvalmiki.com/main.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.110.39.217 (talk) 12:27, 26 January 2008 (UTC) Further evidence of this disproof is also provided by a contemporary study carried out by the late Dr Julia Leslie of the University of London's School of Oriental and African Studies and is set out in her book Hinduism and the Case of Valmiki —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.110.39.217 (talk) 17:42, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I believe that the section on Valmiki's early life should be expanded to include all the various views on him as well as sources backing up these positions. e.g. adivasi assertions that Valmiki was either a Bhil or born in a Bhil house, vs. the story below... 173.70.192.62 (talk) 15:15, 14 September 2011 (UTC)R.E.D.

Bhagwan valmik ji was the son of the great King Varuna.Valmiki was born into Raja Varun's family due to his request.Valmiki incarnated his divine self on this earth a numerous amount of times.Another time he incarnated himself was due to the request of his disciple Rishi Bhardwaj.Valmiki is considered as the almighty,the creator of the universe and all living beings.Before the world was created there was nothing but water Bhagwan Valmki sat on the lotus flower and created the universe. Valmiki was the first poet hence the name Adi-Kavi(which means prime poet).Valmiki is famous for composing the ramayan and the shri yog vasisht however the true versions of these books which hold the key to enlightenment are not available today they are available in an impure form.This is due to the numerous amount of changes and variations made by the Brahmins who injected false stories into them, such as Valmiki being ratnakara (a dacoit) who praised rama and achieved enlghtenment this did not have anything to do with Valmiki this was the story of Balmik batwara who was a dacoit Valimik and Balmik were two completely different people.This is explained in detail in the Shri Ramayan Ad Dharm Granth also known as Adi vasi Dharm Granth.(which means the Granth of the native people) This was all a plan to bring down the name of Valmiki the almighty god and to make Aryan king Rama worthy of worship. Because all of Valmiki's creations have been altered another Ramayan has been given to the world by Bhagwan Valmiki it is called The Shri Ramayana Ad Dharma Granth.this was given to the late sant satguru Gurdev Singh ji Maharaj in Sachkhand (heaven)and written on earth.It is a true holy book which contains not only the bani of Bhagwan Valmik but a numerous amount of Hindu gods such as Brahma,Vishnu,Shiva ji etc godesess such as Lakshmi, Parvati etc, The Sikh Gurus and other Sikhs such as Baba Jiwan Singh (Bhai Jaitha) who managed to capture the severed head of Guru Teg Bahadur Ji Jiwan Singh was of the Valmiki caste and the reicarnation of Matang Rishi as stated in the Shri Ramayan Ad Dharm Granth. It also has the Bani of Bhagats such as Dhanna Bhagat,Parlhad Bhagat,Kabir,Farid and it also contains the bani of Satguru Ravidaas who was the saviour of the downtrodden. It speaks very highly of Satguru Ravidaas and tells us how he made the River Ganges flow in the opposite direction.It brings together all religions it even refers to prophets of christianity and Islam and there is no form of discrimination unlike the Guru Granth Sahib which says Valmik is "The killer of dogs and lowest of low".It tells us how Valmiki created the world, how all gods such as Bramha,Vishnu,Shiva ji,Rama,Krishna, Hanuman etc bow to Bhagwan Valmiki and gives us proof that he is the almighty.This is the Ramayan in its purest form.whoever recites from the adi vasi dharm granth and abides by its rules will be enlightened and approach the gates of sachkhand. The Shri Ramyan Ad Dharma Granth as stated above was given to the late Sant Satguru Gurdev Singh Ji Maharaj in heaven.In the Sachkhand (heven) the holy Shri Ramayan Ad Dharm Granth was placed in water by Bhagwan Valmik ji and dissolved.Sant Gurdev singh bathed in this water therefore the Ramyana entered his body and dwelled there he had absorbed all the knowledge which was given to him by Valmik ji.It took 14 years for Sant Gurdev to write the Shri Ramayan.For Sant Gurdev Singh to write this was a miracle in itself because as a child coming from a poor Mazabhi sikh family in the punjab he was not able to go school, he had not been eduated whatsoever so how did he write this sacred holy book of all books? the answer to this is that Bhagwan Valmiki had chose him to fulfil this holy task and with the grace of Bhagwan Valmik ji an illiterate person was able to write the book of all books. This is a miracle as was when Valmiki had created Kush(the twin brother of Lav)out of hay also the time when the son of Draupadi, Abhimanyu was killed and crying at the gates of hell Vishnu, Brahma, Shiva ji and a numerous amount of other Gods were called to play the sankh(a large shell) for the gates of heaven to be opened for him but they were not able to fulfil this duty all the gods had said only the almighty Bhagwan Valmik can play the sankh to open the gates of heaven.So Bhagwan Valmiki was called and sankh was played and the gates of heaven had opened for Abhimanyu.This proves that Valmiki is the almighty,all knowing,creator of the universe and all living beings.Another time where Bhagwan Valmik ji's shakti(power)has been displayed is when the sons of Rama twins Lav and Kush two young boys defeated their uncles Shatrughan,Bharat and Lakshman and their whole saina(army)Sita cried and begged Bhagwan Valmiki to do something So Bhagwan Valmiki accepted Sita's request and prepared the first amrit(holy water) and showered the army of king Rama with it and were revived.Reference to this has even been made to this in the Guru Granth sahib Ji by guru Arjan dev "Har har har aaraadhheeai hoeeai aarog || Worship and adore the Lord, Har, Har, Har, and you shall be free of disease. Raamachandh kee lasattikaa jin maariaa rog ||1|| rehaao || This is the Lord's healing rod, which eradicates all disease. ||1||Pause||.This again proves Bhagwan Valmiki is god because only God holds the key to life and revivingsouls and only the amrit of Valmik can cure King ram chandra's army. After bringing back to life the army of Rama Chandra Bhagwan Valmik Ji buried the remaining Amrit (holy water) under a beri(tree)which is called the Dukh Bhanjni Beri.It was in Kalyug that it was discovered by Bibi Rajnhi who's disabled husband had seen crows dip into the sarovar which the holy water had formed and come out as doves due to seeing this he decided to jump in himself to cure his diseases.With going into the water it had freed him of all his sins and diseases and he came out cured.This is where the sikh golden temple now stands.The city in which the Amrit was buried had been named after this hence the name Amritsar.It is due to this that it is considered as the pavitar tharthi (pure land).Valmik Ji's ashram is also situated here . Valmik's Amrit was the first, before this there was no amrit and it is from there Guru Gobind Singh got the idea of Amrit and included it in his own sikh religion.According to the Ad Dharm Granth and also the sooraj Parkash Granth Guru Nanak and Guru Gobind Singh were later incarnations of Lav and Kush they wer descendants of the Sodhi,Bedi dynasty the charan sewak(disciples that bow to the feet of guru Valmik)of Valmik ji.It is because of the amrit which Valmiki Ji had buried there that big temple complexes have been erected there it is all with the grace of Valmiki that this has been able to take place.

[edit] First Poet and the First Sloka

Some time after Narada left, Valmiki went to the river Ganga to bathe. A disciple by name Bharadwaja was with him carrying his clothes. On the way they came across the Tamasa Stream. The water in it was very clear. Valmiki said to his disciple, "Look, how clear is this water, like the mind of a good man ! I will bathe here today."

Valmiki was looking for a suitable place to step into the stream, when he heard the sweet chirping of birds. Looking up he saw two birds flying together. Valmiki felt very pleased on seeing the happy bird couple. Just then one of the birds fell down hit by an arrow. It was the male bird. Seeing the wounded one, its mate was screaming in agony. Valmiki's heart melted at this pitiful sight. He looked around to find out who had shot the bird. He saw a hunter with a bow and arrows, nearby. The hunter had shot the bird for food. Valmiki became very angry. His lips opened and words came out:

mAnishAda pratishTAtum samagah ssAshvatIssamAh yat krouncha mithunAdEkam sokam avadhIm kAma mOhitam

"You who have killed one of the bird engaged in the act of love, thus, may you not yourself live long!"

The form he used is called a 'sloka' in Sanskrit. It means a couplet. A sloka was born out of his mouth automatically in a mood of sorrow. [5]

Later Valmiki composed entire Ramayana due to the begging of Lord Brahma in the same meter that issued forth from him as a sloka. Thus this sloka is revered as the "first sloka" in Hindu literature. Valmiki is revered as the first poet, and the Ramayana, the first kavya.

This is all explained in much more detail and in pure form in the Shri Ramayana Ad Dharm Granth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.110.39.217 (talk) 22:00, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

5000 years

have tagged the statement about Valmiki being 5000 years old as dubious. pls provide a quote from the cite work to substantiate this claim. Doldrums 16:49, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

BHAGWAN VALMIK JI - OUR PATH FINDER

The life and times of Guru Valmik Ji are shrouded in history. Ancient Indian history, lacking authentic recorded material and frequently archaeological arti-facts, present us with a problem when analysing the period of Aryan and Dravicham struggle. History if one can call it history, was 'recorded' by this Victor Aryans who naturally depreciated the Nagas and Dravidians. I say 'recorded' because most of the hindu texts were first memorised and later after hundreds of years were written down with much distortion, mythical symbolism and sometimes down right lies. There is much chaff and little wheat in the Hindu texts but never the less it is still possible to piece together the life and mission of Guru Valmik from fragmentary evidence of the ancient texts and modern archaeology.

Guru Valmik is famous for - the Yog Vasistha and the Ramayana. The Ramayana and Yog Vaisitha in their present forms have had been completely distorted. We knew for a fact that parts of Ramayana were later deleted, distorted and added to by the crafty Brahmin priests and writers.

Here I quote Valmik who himself praised Ravana on several ocasions- 'Ravana was a great and good man. He was magnanimous and handsome. But he (Ravana) chastised Brahmins whenever he saw them performing Yagarns and drinking Soma juice.' (Ravana and his Lanka (Hindi) by Chander Parsad Yagiasu)

But in Hindu Ramayana's Ravana is described as a notorious demon king, while Valmik mentioned Ravana as a great learned man a great saint, a master of scriptures, I quote Ralph T.H. Graffith, translator of the important work of Valmiki Ramayana in English. Graffith has written in introduction of Ramayana of Valmik, 'There is every reason to believe that the seventh book (Uttar Kanda) is later addition.

Hence the original Ramayana of Valmik Ji is some what older and altogether different from Hindu texts. Ramayana is essentially the story of the so called Aryan expansion into South India. This expansion was facilitated by the use of iron tools and weapons and his use of iron in North and Central India was introduced round about 1000 BC and 250 years. Many people may disagree with the date of Ramayana but I have archaeological evidence.

I feel that in our community there is a tendency, from self respect viewpoint; to ascribe as older date as possible for Guru but this thinking can only discourage the younger generation from learning about their culture and history and hence it must be avoided.

Around about 1500 BC the Nomadic barbarian Aryans invaded N.W. India and over ran an already ancient, by decaying, civilisation later known as the Indus Valley Civilisation was renowned for many features it gave to the Indian society e.g. architecture, drainage system, waterlocks trade, system of standard weights and measures, granaries, written script, astronomy (the Nak-Shatrya system) medicine Lokayata philosophy etc. etc,. The first 10 chapters (mandalas) of the R —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.110.37.231 (talk) 20:17, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I would beg to differ. I would think of two points here to raise:

* The Wikipedia, in my opinion, should reflect both perspectives of ancient Hindu beliefs and "modern" research and findings.
* When making such claims as above, or in fact any claims about ancient India, it would be good if we can quote some from ancient Indian texts themselves. Otherwise, the text on Wikipedia would remain as oriented towards western perspective.

First, I would like to have a list of links to publicly available resources, source of research for Julia Leslie's work "Authority and Meaning in Indian Religions: Hinduism and the Case of Valmiki". I have a lot of doubts in this context.

The name "vAlmIki" itself is so common, it cannot help a researcher to easily pin point the author of works like "shrImadrAmAyaNaM" in the vast history of ancient time. Also, from "shrImadrAmAyaNaM" itself, it is said it was never written. According to the same, vAlmIki just narrated the entire poem to lava and kuSa, the twins, who then spread the poem around.

From the "yOga vAshisthaM" and "SrImad rAmAyaNaM" works, Valmiki appears contemporaneous to vasishtha. "vEda vyAsa", who wrote "mahA bhArataM" along with many other works such as "purANA"s and "itihAsa"s, is said to be great grandson (at least) to vasitha:

vyAsaM vasishtha naptAraM SaktEH poutramakalmashaM parASarAtmajaM vaMdE Suka tAtaM tapOnidhiM

व्यासं वसिष्ठनप्तारं शक्तॆः पौत्रमकल्मषं पराशरात्मजं वंदॆ शुकतातं तपॊनिथिं

(I pay honor to vyAsa, who is son of parASara, grandson of Sakti and great grandson of vasishtha)

Though there are other factors, which I can easily pull out from the "yOgavAsiShTha" book itself, I would like to start with the fundamental question. If "mahAbhArataM" was written by "vyAsa", written around 400BCE (from Wikipedia itself, again based on western only perspective), how come vAlmIki live around 400BCE???

Also, from many Indian philosophers, "vyAsa" is a designation to someone who contributes a lot to Hindu dharma. This can be verified from "yOgavAsishThaM" itself. That is another side.

For responding to what should be reasonably latest date for Indian works, I would think of the ancient Indian philosophy "if someone does not want to believe, let them not". If we all have to believe that any and all culture, knowledge and civilization came in to existence only around Christian era, I am not entirely sure if any of Indian intellects comprehend with that. Many intellects with open mind strongly believe rich cultural heritage of India has it's roots much much more deeper than Christian era.

Also, as many a research support Aryan Invasion theories, so are enough to prove it otherwise.

When talking about ancient Indian topics, particularly the ones like the current ones, I would ask for both Indian and Western opinions to be presented to the reader without taking any side.

I would propose to add the following to the article, please let me know your objections.

== The Indian Perspective ==

Statement in intro

A statement keeps being added to the introduction by an editor. This statement reads, "Valmiki is wrongly said to have been a forest brigand, till the day Narada enlightened him. This has been proven otherwise by a contemporary study carried out by the late Dr Julia Leslie of the University of London's School of Oriental and African Studies and is set out in her book Hinduism and the Case of Valmiki" This statement begins with some original research, "Valmiki is wrongly said to have been a forest brigand, till the day Narada enlightened him." I do not know where this is from. Also, Dr Julia Leslie's book may be a reliable source, but exactly how and what she proved "otherwise" is far from clearly stated. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 14:48, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Julia Leslie's work is a reliable source (WP:RS) but the anonymous editor needs to study the text to understand what is said there. The offending statement (that Valmiki was a "forest brigand") wasn't in Valmiki's original text. It came from later writers, and thus it became a story habitually attached to Valmiki. The anonymous edit introduces a distracting and extraneous issue here.Fconaway (talk) 22:09, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Kindly give the source of information, research resources and other reliable information based on which Julia Leslie's work is based on. The book itself is not available in public domain. Also, while there are millions of books from Indian intellects, it is really interesting why none of them is mentioned here, at least to reflect Indian belief. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Guttina (talk • contribs) 13:16, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

The contentious Sambuka story

I have removed the following text:

"This stage also produced a pronounced emphasis on Varna- Dharma: Sambuka, the Sudra ascetic, is killed by Rama in order to bring a Brahmin boy back to life."

Reason for this edit is that Sambuka story is highly controversial, and there is no established authority to say either/or. The Hindu circles don't believe that this incident took place, where as the non-Hindu circles, especially the christian missionary circles, continue to believe and spread this story as a fact in India. Either way, in order to put this incident here on the Wikipedia, a strong "factual" reference is needed as per Wikipedia editing guidelines. No point in putting things here on hearsay.

R. Patel (talk) 03:43, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

VAlmiki Tirath - Amritsar

I believe that the article must have information about Valmiki Tirath, Amritsar. This is the place where Valmiki Ji gave shelter to Mata Sita and where Lav and Kush were born. This is the place where he completed Ramayana. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.51.223.161 (talk) 08:11, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

No reply ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.51.223.161 (talk) 12:10, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

If I do not recieve reply to this discussion then I will have to add Ram Tirath part into the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.51.223.161 (talk) 05:41, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Indian Perspective

I am planning to add Indian perspective and views of some of southern Indian intellects to this article. If anyone can contribute about northern Indian intellects perspectives, it would be great. I would like to first post the article here (below) and once it comes to a good shape, move it to the main article.

Also, those who have objections, please raise and discuss.

Guttina (talk) 13:37, 26 August 2010 (UTC)