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Request name	Motions	Initiated	Votes
Mzajac and Bbb23 Wheel War		8 January 2024	0/1/1

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Mzajac and Bbb23 Wheel War

Initiated by Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} at 19:55, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed parties

Guerillero (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), filing party
Mzajac (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
Bbb23 (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

None needed per WW

Statement by Guerillero

Arbs, I present to you a wheel war over at New Orc Times (log). The page was created by Mzajac, deleted by 331dot (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) as an G10, undeleted by Mzajac out of process (as an involved action at both the page and topic level), and then deleted by Bbb23. All of this was done without a substantive discussion on the merits being closed.

I ask the rest of the committee to explore if both of the admins that I listed as parties should retain their tools in light of the tool misuse. --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 19:55, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Either WHEEL is a bright line prohibition or it isn't and I am shocked, ToBeFree, that you don't see it as one --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 20:34, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Mzajac

I was informed twice that I had created an “attack page” by SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk · contribs), with no indication which page they referred to.[1][2] I responded there[3] but received no reply. I surmised that it was probably New Orc Times and The New Orc Times (not New Ork Times with a K, as stated above), and saw that both were nominated for speedy deletion. I followed the “contest deletion” button/link on both pages, and spelled out the reason for not deleting at talk:New Orc Times#Contested deletion and talk:The New Orc Times#Contested deletion, with identical text on both pages.

After this, one of the pages was deleted – I thought by the speedy nominator – and apparently out of process after I had contested the speedy. At no time did they engage me in meaningful discussion, respond to my posts, or acknowledge any of my edits. So I re-created it, and redirected it to a better target where I had in the meantime cited references directly related to the subject (an internet meme) and tagging it as {{R from non-neutral name}} for clarity.

The other page was taken to RFD, at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 January 8#The New Orc Times, where it is currently under discussion.

The accusation of creating an “attack page” and the seeming urgency of other editors’ actions surrounding these redirects have been undue. Per WP:RNEUTRAL, “Because redirects are less visible to readers, more latitude is allowed in their names, therefore perceived lack of neutrality in redirect names is not a sufficient reason for their deletion.” I created naked redirects thinking that they would be automatically tagged and cleaned up by maintenance, and never suspecting that editors would react so aggressively against a name that made fun of a media corporation.

Now I have been taken to arbitration. This seems over the top. —Michael Z. 20:41, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The timeline by user:Blablubbs omits that I contested the nomination for speedy deletion. —Michael Z. 20:48, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I left the speedy tag in place because that was the state of the page after I contested the speedy deletion. I am not aware of the SD process, and I assumed the way it worked was the way it is supposed to work. —Michael Z. 20:50, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Bbb23

I'm lost. I saw a page that was tagged for deletion as WP:G10 by another editor. Honestly, I misread who had tagged it for deletion and thought that the creator of the page had done so in their last edit, which is why I deleted it per G7, even though there was an intervening edit. I did not notice the deleted history showing that 331dot had deleted the page as a G10 earlier. If I had, I probably would have just left it alone, although I'm not sure how my repeat of a delete, even if with a different rationale, constitutes wheel-warring. Frankly, I think the whole thing is silly and certainly doesn't merit an arbitration request, but this is, after all, Wikipedia. In any event, at worst I screwed up.--Bbb23 (talk) 20:09, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

After posting the above, I thought about it some more and I believe I now understand how my delete was - or at least could be construed as - wheel-warring. That doesn't change my conclusion, which is I screwed up. I do try to be careful in my administrative actions, but I'm a long ways from infallible. If someone had pointed out that what I'd done was wrong, I would have undone my deletion.--Bbb23 (talk) 20:34, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by RoySmith

I know arbcom is where admin behavior problems get heard, but I can't help but feel this needed at least some time for discussion in other forums before finding its way here. All of this happened over the past couple of hours. I see the beginnings of a conversation on User talk:Mzajac started earlier today, but it seems to me more time could have been spent trying to work things out there before playing the arbcom card.

On the other hand, I also see a thread from 4 days ago started by Mellk which concerns me a bit more. This doesn't appear to be about any specific admin actions taken by Mzajac, but Melik does mention a concern about Mzajac holding a mop, which gets me paying a bit more attention. Then we get to Maybe you could try to accept the idea that I will keep editing Wikipedia and that I will remain an admin which doesn't quite get to the level of a threat, but it's certainly not a shining example of an admin exhibiting the best qualities we hope to see.

TLDR: yeah, I think arbcom needs to take a look. RoySmith (talk) 20:23, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by 331dot

I just wanted to say that I am not totally familiar with policy on redirects, and deleted it as G10 because the redirect seemed like an attack(even knowing that it was based on a meme). I see that was likely an error and not a clear-cut case. I didn't know anything else happened after my deletion until being pinged here. 331dot (talk) 20:43, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Blablubbs

For the benefit of those without undelete goggles, the history here goes:

04:25, 7 January 2024: Mzajac creates the page
15:58, 8 January 2024: Someone tags it for G10
16:47, 8 January 2024: 331dot deletes per G10
19:09, 8 January 2024: Mzajac undeletes 2 revisions
19:11, 8 January 2024: Mzajac modifies the undeleted page, leaving the speedy tag in place
19:20, 8 January 2024: Bbb23 deletes per G7

I'm slightly confused, but not too concerned, by the G7; given the still-present G10 tag in the last revision, I could easily see how a "bad" delete might happen here without ill intent. I don't think this really meets the spirit of WP:WHEEL, even if it might meet the letter – at least not to the extent that it would constitute the immediate-desysop sort of offence we usually make it out to be. WHEEL is concerned with not having admins combatively use reinstatements in lieu of dispute resolution, but what happened here doesn't strike me as that.

I'm more concerned by the initial undeletion, which seems like a pretty clear-cut violation of INVOLVED, regardless of the whether or not the initial deletion was correct on the merits. --Blablubbs (talk) 20:43, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by {Non-party}

Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the case request or provide additional information.

Mzajac and Bbb23 Wheel War: Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Mzajac and Bbb23 Wheel War: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter <0/1/1>

Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse)

I think having WP:WHEEL seen as a brightline where violating is likely to result in desysop has benefitted our project. A G7 would, for me, be a reasonable exception. So I look forward to hearing where that request was placed, because I'm not seeing it in Mzajac's contribution history. I will note that Mzajac was recently here in a case that was removed because the filing party was ineligible to file it, but as I noted at that request I'm mindful of last year's AE outcome so there could be issues beyond this incident there. Barkeep49 (talk) 19:59, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Recuse --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 20:00, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding Mzajac's undeletion: If you disagree with a deletion and consider it wise for whichever reason to undo the action without discussion, then please at least just re-create the page like everyone else without the undeletion button would do. Same result, less drama. Or, better: Discuss the matter with the deleting administrator. Regarding Bbb23's mistake: It happens; thank you for the clarification. Decline unless this is shown to be part of a larger pattern or intentional. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 20:19, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Guerillero, I'm not saying it was wrong to file the case, I'm just saying that occasional mistakes are entirely compatible with adminship and this seems to be a genuine mistake on Bbb23's behalf, not done with the slightest intention of overruling or wheel-warring with another administrator. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 20:41, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mzajac, you did not "re-create" New Orc Times, you used your administrative tools to undelete it. Do you see the problem? ~ ToBeFree (talk) 20:48, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]