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General discussion

Jackson dead?

Sky News, BBC, TZM and CNN are all reporting that Michael Jackson has died, I advise the editing admins for the main page, not to 'jump the gun', per se, he has been known for his publicity stunts. Worth watching though. Murgon (talk) 21:55, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Most aren't reporting it as "official" yet, but I agree that, at this point, we should take reports with a pinch of salt. Not sure if it is worth the main page anyways, but still... J Milburn (talk) 22:09, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Just heard on the radio, the LA Times are saying he is in a coma, I think the 'dust fallout' is going to make reporting this on the mainpage quite hard, leave it for a few hours. Murgon (talk) 22:20, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

BBC says LA Times and CBS are reporting him dead but CNN isn't so it is very unclear at this time. --candle•wicke 22:33, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

It's a messed up situation. Murgon (talk) 22:35, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

NBC mirrors the LA Times report. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 22:35, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

CNN reports he's dead too. http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/06/25/michael.jackson/index.html ESTEMSHORN^talk_Sign 22:40, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

IIRC, deaths from natural causes don't really go on the main page. There was a fight over it when Sir Edmund Hillary died. ZeaLitY [ DREAM - REFLECT ] 22:48, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Sir Edmund Hillary was nothing compared with the King of Pop, the worldwide popularity and sudden, shocking death of Micheal Jackson should be reason enough to appear on the main page. User talk:Pho3nix-

Could you produce a link to the policy page where that is said please? I have never read it myself. Murgon (talk) 22:54, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't think this should be on the main page, even though he is an extremely famous person, if we put this on the main page then why shouldn't we put Ed McMahon(or however you spell it), Farrah Fawcett and other notable deaths recently? Blah42b10 (talk) 23:03, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

ITN is now far more open than it was. This could hit the main page; personally, I have no opinion. Note, also, that Jackson's death was not expected- Hillary's death was less of a surprise. This is an argument in favour of including it. J Milburn (talk) 23:07, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

There is currently a news story about Lucas Glover winning a golf tournament. Does anyone seriously consider that to be more important or notable than one of the most famous stars in the world suddenly dying at an early age? Why the hell wouldn't this be considered notable enough for the front page? Zincomog (talk) 23:11, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

It's now official: "A Los Angeles city official confirmed that Michael Jackson is dead. The official said he died away at 1:07 p.m. Pacific time."[1] Please update. -- Taku (talk) 23:18, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Not until that comes from a reputable news source should that be considered official. Murgon (talk) 23:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

LA Times, NYTimes, BBC, NBC, Fox News, all confirm his death. I don't think this should be a "reported to have" anymore. Also, maybe we should put a picture up on main page? Mononomic (talk) 23:34, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Maybe File:Michael Jackson 1984.jpg for the photo? Certainly more interesting than European flags... Mononomic (talk) 23:38, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Absolutely. J Milburn (talk) 23:42, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Could we make the picture just a little bit bigger (maybe 80-100px wide)? Mononomic (talk) 23:58, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Nevermind, see Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page/Candidates#ITN candidates for June 25 Mononomic (talk) 00:20, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

An example of indescribable irony if you didn't see it or had forgotten. --candle•wicke 00:31, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

That's not irony, that's an interesting coincidence. "Irony" is one of the most often misused words on the Internet, and you provided an excellent example of how it is misused. Danthemankhan 18:53, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Isn't it standard policy only to announce the deaths of heads of state on the main page?--24.218.164.106 (talk) 01:45, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

He's the King of Pop, isn't he? ;-) Teemu08 (talk) 02:05, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

User:Wadester16/Smile That made me laugh. wadester16 02:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Without reading the previous discussions, I assume there was consensus that he follows this criterion: "The deceased was a very important figure in their field of expertise, and was recognised as such." Zzyzx11 (talk) 14:17, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually I think it broke the record for support at ITN previously possibly broken by an old flute about an hour earlier (that one still hasn't been updated or posted because the internet came down around me and possibly everyone else and ITN was invaded by those mass edit conflict causing types that turn up and are never seen again). The media seems to be verifying Michael Jackson as the cause of this crash - which would indicate that something very unusual happened across several sites, including this one. --candle•wicke 15:14, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Video which I thought was a good summary of the international reaction. "BBC reporters on global Jackson reaction". --candle•wicke 15:50, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

And another showing various television coverage - "TV stations report Jackson's death". --candle•wicke 16:14, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Any word on when the Heir apparent of the King of Pop, Fresh Prince will take the throne? Vdrj2 (talk) 17:42, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Comment I don't see any evidence for breaking any records. In fact, I'm pretty sure we've had way more then 6 before particularly before ITN became so dead. Indeed, I suspect in the old days admins would easily be yelled at if they added controversial or unclear items with only 2-3 supports. Nil Einne (talk) 10:07, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Well that was then and this is now. That's why I said "previously possibly broken" and linked to a comment by someone else. But for two in a matter of hours to get that much support is unusual for 2009 at any rate. And admins getting "yelled at" for adding items? Where have you been? That's still going on... --candle•wicke 15:17, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

After the mourning period.... but before the afternoon period!!!!Willski72 (talk) 22:53, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

After the sun rises. Or should that before the moon walks? --candle•wicke 03:25, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for moving it off the front page. Now we can get on with other things. Peter Greenwell (talk) 11:19, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

It wasn't moved from the main page, it was told to Beat It ;-) TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 11:23, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Surely you can't be serious! Peter Greenwell (talk) 11:28, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh no! What have i unleashed!Willski72 (talk) 13:07, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Whatever it is, it's BAD! BAD! REALLY REALLY BAD! Ahem, sorry. --candle•wicke 14:59, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

You know i thought better of you Candlewicke, outbursts such as that are not wanted on this encyclopedia! Next someone will come up and start shouting about thrilled zombies and criminals that are getting soft (or some such nonsense!)Willski72 (talk) 17:27, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Careful now, this could get a bit dangerous. --candle•wicke 18:07, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

The problem with you lot is that you just "Don't Stop 'til You Get Enough". There, i have done one, are you satisfied now!Willski72 (talk) 18:30, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

You can't win. --candle•wicke 18:58, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Jeez, this post is a bit of a thriller wasn't it? I mean, I know it's just human nature that we have to cry over his death. He was gone too soon but just be happy. We've just got to leave him alone, and We're almost there. weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 19:29, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Right thats it! I asked nicely, i tried to appease you! I tell you know that you are responsible for what i have been driven to! Remember that as they put me 6 feet under! (Sound of rattling followed by a 'click' 'click' 'click', a gulp, a loud bang and a soft thud.....)Willski72 (talk) 19:57, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

No! Just give it one more chance! :D weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 21:21, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Leave Me Alone. --candle•wicke 23:51, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Im dead and i cant get away! Oh look i've still got that gun (loud bang followed by a soft thud).Willski72 (talk) 16:44, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

You Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'. You Got To Be Startin' Somethin'. --candle•wicke 17:46, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, if i was in hell before i have no idea where i am now.... and those bloody Michael Jackson song names are still going! (Loud bang followed by a soft thud)Willski72 (talk) 20:56, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Keep on, keep on... don't stop 'til you get enough... --candle•wicke 01:45, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh no i havent got any bullets left!Willski72 (talk) 12:09, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Germananic Flute

I have added information on the Hohle Fels page about the bird flute found. I don't think there should be an individual page created just for the flute, atleast not as of yet. So can we please get a link to the page saying something like "Archeologists confirm the discovery of a 35,000-year-old flute in Hohle Fels cave, the oldest confirmed musical instrument, in Germany.", and link Hohle Fels? We really should have a link to an article where people can find out more information on the subject being discussed.JanderVK (talk) 02:31, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

You cannot change the link now after all this time. what does it matter anyway? they can still find it caus flute is linked too. 03:36, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Agree there should be a link with context. But there's an early link to Hohle Fels on the Flute article, however, which I believe provides readers access to the information. Sure the link can be changed, even after all this time; however, it doesn't appear to be essential. --Mysidia (talk) 03:45, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure I see the logic on having to scan through the flute article just to find information on this particular flute. Would you scan through the literature article to find information on William Blake's writings, no you wouldn't, you would search William Blake. Yes, it is also relevant enough to change the link! It's still on the front page news section, and people still click on it. I'm glad someone took the initiative and atleast linked to the Hohle Fels cave article, which has to do with this particular flute.99.54.188.157 (talk) 09:49, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Flute contains more information then Hohle Fels so it remains the appropriate article to link to for ITN. It also seems to me this is the proper thing since the discovery is of far greater significance to flute then Hohle Fels. The information is fairly early in the article, so this hardly seems a big deal to me but if the appropriate thing to request was a link to the specific subsection covering the new development (i.e. history) rather then linking to a largely irrelevant article as the primary topic. Also, as mentioned in many places, this should be reported in errors not here Nil Einne (talk) 10:26, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Loss of 3,000 articles

Anybody have any idea why our article count dropped from over 2, 929,000 last night to 2,926,000 this morning? Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 13:49, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

The deletionists have won? –Howard the Duck 13:59, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Anybot's algae articles. --MZMcBride (talk) 14:02, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Once again the expansionists have been defeated by the minimalists, it is only a matter of time before there is nothing left....Willski72 (talk) 17:56, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Well that's certainly a massive exaggeration. Majorly talk 21:13, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Willski72, have you actually taken a look at the AfD? I'm someone who can certainly support mass creation of those kind of stubs- I'm dismayed about how patchy our coverage of fungi is, for instance. But that was obviously a sound deletion, due to the massive amounts of major errors within them. J Milburn (talk) 21:19, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Knowing Willski72 as I do, I can say without fear of contradiction that Willski72 never, never, never, ever, ever, ever exaggerates. Never ever. Not ever. No sirree. ;-) (I suspect Willski72 may be satirising dramah - they are a bringer of light-relief in general. I did see the AfD, and fully agree with the deletions). In other news, I'm pondering what would be the better name for a (hypothetical) band: "The deletionists have won", or "Anybot's algae articles"? TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 21:23, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

The latter, I reckon. "The deletionists have won" would be a headline on an ultra-inclusionist newspaper on the day a known deletionist was elected to ArbCom. J Milburn (talk) 21:32, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Don't worry Willski, I bet this goes on all the time. Tomorrow you'll wake up and there'll be 30,000 new articles and the following day there'll be 8,000 less. It all works out in the end. --candle•wicke 03:23, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

First let me say i was not in any way being sarcastic (!) and i fully believed that i would wake up one morning to find that Wikipedia had imploded on itself! However i now take great comfort in the knowledge that this was not the beginning of the end but just the normal workings of a somewhat erratic machine! PS "The deletionists have won" would be a far better name for a band than some of the rubbish they come up with, it has my full support.Willski72 (talk) 09:18, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

PPS "Anybot's algae articles"??? There really is no contest! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Willski72 (talk • contribs) 09:20, 30 June 2009 (UTC) Sorry!Willski72 (talk) 09:22, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Somewhere out there there will be someone with a recurring nightmare wherein they go to sleep at night with millions of articles on Wikipedia, but when they wake up and check the main page's top banner, it says "1 articles in English". They go to Special:AllPages, their heart racing, and all that appears is a single page called Template:Bluelink. They click on it, short of breath by now. All that appears on the page is "Wake up". They wake up in a cold sweat, knowing that won't be the last time they have that same dream. Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 09:41, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes that would be very scary, especially if (for some unknown reason) the page called "The deletionists have won" was flashing bright red or somesuch colour. It would also be even scarier if the article went on to describe the mass murder of the expansionists in the middle of a meeting by gas through the air vents/deletionist indoctrinated man with machine gun etcWillski72 (talk) 13:05, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

The articles deleted were deleted because they were made by a bot an contained factual errors. Wikipedia is better without 3000 inaccurate articles. The deletions were a result of a near unanimous debate. Attempting to make this part of the largely exaggerated "deletionists" vs "inclusionists" disputes demonstrates a real lack of awareness of the true situation. There are enough real issues on Wikipedia, no need to make up ones that don't exist. Chillum 13:08, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

I feel like a dog thats just been kicked for goodnaturedly barking at the wrong person! (I was joking... as i have been all the way through... just in case you hadnt already worked that out).Willski72 (talk) 14:28, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Ah, I see now you have pointed this out. The satire was so close to reality I got confused. Chillum 23:40, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

This gives you more time to join the Wikipedia:Three-millionth topic pool! - BanyanTree 05:19, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Why can't I edit the main page?

?? -206.240.26.51 (talk) 15:19, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:FAQ/Main Page#Why am I not able to edit the Main Page? Algebraist 15:24, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I disagree, this is a wiki, and YOU ARE BREAKING THE WIKI SPIRIT by not letting me edit the main page. 206.240.26.51 (talk) 15:25, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, but that is not going to work. WP is not run by such pie-eyed idealists that they'll let a known vandal edit the mainpage because he has appealed to the "Wiki spirit". APL (talk) 15:34, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

No feeding, please. --MZMcBride (talk) 18:37, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Indeed [2] Nil Einne (talk) 10:18, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

yeah i want to edit it too, oh wiki gods.--24.109.201.127 (talk) 21:16, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

DYK

Re astronomer Rolf Brahde, it's heartwarming to see Norway back in the DYK column. Sca (talk) 15:25, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Has it been absent for long? There are currently several European countries directly mentioned at ITN - Czech Republic, Poland, Austria, Hungary, Romania and Slovakia, Sweden and Russia and Italy but no Norway... --candle•wicke 15:48, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia:Recent additions, this is the fifth Norway-related item in the last week. Algebraist 17:04, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Considering the vast population (a fifth of the worlds!) and the large surface area (4th biggest in the world!) this is a shambles! Or maybe i've mixed Norway up with China?Willski72 (talk) 17:21, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

No, you're right... people are always talking about Norway here so it must be big. Considering Europe has like 2/3 of the world's English-speaking populations (or something) I'm guessing they must all live in Norway or maybe moved there from other countries to escape all the sudden floods and exploding trains and now they're all celebrating there because Wikipedia has restored them to their rightful place alongside the United States of New Zealand and Zimbabwe. (Did I get that right? No? Oh.) --candle•wicke 18:01, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Whoa, don't knock Newzlandia. We invented the jet, the atom and Mount Everest (though that last one was a joint invention). Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 16:54, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Oops, I didn't even know you were from there. Um... (Inserting other country...) YUGOSLAVIA! Is that one OK? Wait, that doesn't exist right? So nobody can be offended (hopefully). If you're from Yugoslavia pretend it's some other non-existent country like Kosovo... oops, touchy subject. Um... Neverland! There we go... right on topic as well... and if you're Peter Pan you don't exist, OK? --candle•wicke 01:54, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

It is a statistical fact that Norway once controlled a huge empire and defeated Germany single-handedly in the Second World War.Willski72 (talk) 18:23, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh curses, now our Secret has finally been exposed. We "Europeans" are all really Norwegians. When we are not working on our Tlon, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius encyclopedia, we write fake articles on the imaginary countries of "Europe". We warned you not to tell the non-"European" editors. The whole game has been spoilt. Michael of Lucan (talk) 12:09, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Slip of the tongue, im sorry! At least they still dont know about the Luxembourg's huge new navy thats 3 times bigger than any other. Woops!Willski72 (talk) 16:47, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

That's right. Keep using code words like Luxembourg for our fNordic state. They'll never guess. Michael of Lucan (talk) 18:14, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Careful now. Next thing you'll let slip about the countries of Amenesia, Invisibia and Nonexistencia having never been mapped by non-Europeans. --candle•wicke 18:20, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Did you hear that North Korea has just built 2000 new ballistic missiles with nuclear capacity and that they can fire as far as 10,000 miles in only 5 minutes?Willski72 (talk) 20:52, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh sorry, I thought this was a series of jokes but your above comment has made me realise this was an error. My humblest apologies. --candle•wicke 22:05, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes well.... always remember never to mess with Russia. Its powers are too mighty to comprehend!Willski72 (talk) 12:12, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Front page is losing its appeal

Put some more bright colors in it. --AaThinker (talk) 21:34, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

This is a regular suggestion, one that has caused widespread debate but always leads to nothing. See WP:PEREN for more information. weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 21:41, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Not only is this a regular suggestion, but it's to be a regular suggestion by AaThinker, apparently. —David Levy 22:22, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Is there a rule against it I can't find? --AaThinker (talk) 17:40, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

A rule against repeatedly posting the same suggestion (without even noting this fact)? No, but it's rather unproductive and time-wasting for all involved. —David Levy 18:03, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia Crash

Did wikipedia just crash? i was trying to browse some article and a This Wiki Has A Problem page popped up everytime, whats the matter?--Josecarlos1991 (talk) 23:20, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it was down. I posted a question over at Commons and got a short explanation from BanyanTree. Newsboy85 (talk) 23:25, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Ooh, i see, thank you for the information brother (= --Josecarlos1991 (talk) 23:33, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

TechBlog entry about this --mav (talk) 02:28, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Problem with Did You Know

Two of the items in Did You Know are non-compliant as they fail to deal with Canadian subjects. Can someone fix this urgently? Michael of Lucan (talk) 15:26, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

It is not something to be fixed. They don't have to deal with Canadian subjects. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:31, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I've checked, and the Royal Mail article does have a link to Canada Post. So, only the Wiltshire article fails the "Refer to Canada" test. Clearly some error. :-D Michael of Lucan (talk) 15:35, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

What do you mean by the "Refer to Canada" test? I know it is Canada Day but it doesn't mean all DYK hooks have to be Canada-related. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:39, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Your majesty - I am joking. {Bows and grovels, backs from the Borg throne room then, unplugging self from the Hive Entity, enters escape pod. Sound of airlock closing.} Michael of Lucan (talk) 16:01, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Groan... --BorgQueen (talk) 16:03, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

You really shouldnt have those escape pods within easy reach of jokers, or at least have a guard there watching the thing!Willski72 (talk) 16:50, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Meanwhile, today's TWO Norway-related DYKs are the best yet! Sca (talk) 16:42, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

News

In the news "Republic of Ireland" should be pipelinked to show Ireland as Republic of Ireland is not the name of the country and the main page should be accurate and reflect this.MITH 17:06, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Done. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:08, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick action.MITH 17:09, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

By the way, knowing next to nothing about the country, I wonder why the article is named "Republic of Ireland"? --BorgQueen (talk) 17:13, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

It's complicated. But I would just like to say that it was "Ireland" all the way from P:CE and ITN/C to posting and as soon as I noticed "Republic of" on the Main Page I moved to point it out before any scene was made... it just shows how quick these things are noticed... --candle•wicke 17:18, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Up until recently it was felt the island deserved the name Ireland more than the country of the same name for whatever reason/POV. However an Arbcom case (WP:IECOLL) is currently ongoing and the titles of both article are due to be changed. You will likely see an ad for the upcoming poll on your watchlist quite soon.MITH 17:22, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Since when was the Republic of Ireland – United Kingdom border cow proof? I know it's a secondary consideration to the 'name of Ireland' POV wars, but in the case of this news, I would have thought it was pretty important to distinguish between state and island. Although sadly, neither the article, or even the sources for the news, don't bother to expand on exactly where in 'Ireland' brucellosis was a problem. MickMacNee (talk) 17:46, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

The name of the independent Irish State is a source of continual discussion on Wikipedia, because it has emotional issues for many people. Like the name of Football/soccer/Association football, this issue cannot be resolved by discussion. You will not stop the dispute without mass slaughter of one side or the other. Wikipedia aims at consensus, and for that namby-pamby reason rejects mass slaughter as a solution.

I have clear views on both subjects, but have learned not to express them. Peeing against the wind only gets you wet - the wind flows on regardless. Michael of Lucan (talk) 18:08, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Amazing how an admin posting two words produces a debate on the mortality rates of cattle. At least that might be the best idea if this is to continue. Alas, it was inevitable... I did my best... :( --candle•wicke 18:24, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

"Wikipedia aims at consensus, and for that namby-pamby reason rejects mass slaughter as a solution".

Is it me or can you just not have fun any more!Willski72 (talk) 21:00, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

No, some people get so ANGRY when their rights are trampled on... others get angry when their cows trample on them. --candle•wicke 21:53, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes.... can be a bit of a bother when one of your cows tramples on you cant it....Willski72 (talk) 21:55, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Who said anything about one? --candle•wicke 21:59, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

If you are trampled on by only one cow from Ireland, then its ok, because you are not going to get infected, but if you are trampled on by only one cow from Ireland, its not ok, because you will be infected. Wikipedia (and the Irish newspapers:, making the world dumber, one news item at a time. MickMacNee (talk) 02:08, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

How many cows are we talking about here?Willski72 (talk) 12:14, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

A proposal

I'm posting this here because I don't know where else to post this, since it doesn't apply to a single article or even to a specific project.

I've noticed that some of the articles on Wikipedia contain content that definitely isn't appropriate for small children, yet they could still come upon them accidentally by using the random article feature. Clearly, Therefore, something needs to be done. Wikipedia isn't censored, so that's not what I'm proposing. Rather, any articles detailing the processes of human reproduction (with or without pictures) or excretion (with pictures), as well as anything else that may be determined inappropriate in the future, should be moved to a separate namespace, perhaps "Adult:" or something similar. Then, on the page for that subject in the main namespace, a warning template should be placed stating that the content isn't appropriate for children and containing a link that a person can click to go to the article if he isn't bothered by the inappropriate content. --Aruseusu (talk) 23:02, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

WP:VPM or one of the other village pump pages would be a better place for this. You'll need a better argument than 'clearly', though. Algebraist 23:05, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)#A proposal for further discussion. - BanyanTree 07:22, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Michael Jackson main page

Please can someone put Michael Jackson on main page. It's the least wikipedia can do for the world's best dancer, singer and entertainer ever. --Forsena (talk) 18:07, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

He was. You missed him. --candle•wicke 18:09, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

For close to 4 ½ days, to be specific. —David Levy 18:12, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, after spending 4 and a half days on the main page we thought that people might of got the message....guess not!Willski72 (talk) 18:14, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Michael Jackson was on the main page for the four days after he died .You can see the way this was reported in the "in the news" section here
Portal:Current events/2009 June 25
Stadt (talk) 18:35, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

This is the moment he made his appearance... --candle•wicke 18:40, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

And he was knocked off by an exploding train... --candle•wicke 18:43, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Sounds painful... weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 18:44, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

@ Forsena - note that Wikipedia is not a collection of obituaries, and that Jacko wasn't the only death on June 25 either. weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 18:44, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

This has absolutely nothing to do with this - actually it might - but is Wikipedia crashing again today? It hasn't been right since he died. I've spent half an hour trying to reply to something elsewhere. And this is the third time I've tried to get this message through. --candle•wicke 20:20, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Finally!!! It saves! (collapses in tears) --candle•wicke 20:22, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

The European servers were down for a little while, everything had to go through Florida. The secure site was still working fine. J Milburn (talk) 23:54, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Geez people if you dont understand what i'm talking about don't answer. I was talking about his Featured page should be on the main page. And I really think nobody gives a crap about a Prime Minister from a country they never heard of resigned. Put his featured article on main page please, this is least we can do for him. R.I.P Michael we love you --Forsena (talk) 10:17, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

If that's what you meant, why didn't you say it? I'm assuming the article will be saved for an anniversary- perhaps his birthday, perhaps the anniversary of his death. I imagine the editors of the article will want to work on it somewhat for a while yet anyway- it's changed fairly significantly since his death. J Milburn (talk) 10:29, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

(edit conflict) You could propose it at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates. I'd like to take this opportunity to apologise for the ignorance of my fellow editors - when you said "can someone put Michael Jackson on main page" they mistakenly thought you were referring to Main page, and responded (correctly) that Michael Jackson had been on the Main page for some time. In hindsight, we all realise that that assumption was incorrect and we should magically have known you were, in fact, talking about a specific but unstated part of the Main page. The telepathic skills of many Wikipedia editors is sorely lacking. This is being addressed by a top-secret research programme, but in the meantime I ask that you state requests clearly, and not leave us guessing what you really mean. Cheers, TFOWR^{This flag once was red} 10:33, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Note Requests for assigning an FA to the front page for a certain day go to Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests, not WP:FAC. Regards, Dabomb87 (talk) 18:54, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

(ec) I suspect that given that you regularly seem to contribute to Serbia related articles there is a bit of aggressive POV creeping in here (I presume the resignation you were talking about was the PM of Serbia's next door neighbour, Croatia). Your talk page also suggests that you have been involved in edit warring on Eastern European/Balkan/Yugoslav related articles, which furthers my suspicions. As for Michael Jackson, if you want tributes go to a fansite. This is an encyclopaedia and we don't bend the rules just because one person has died. Also, I would point out that per Relativism theory, whilst you feel Jackson's death is notable, others will not, and likewise, whilst you feel the resignation of the Croatian PM is not notable, other will. All we can do is treat them as equally as possible. --Daviessimo (talk) 10:35, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

To most people Michael Jackson was just a good singer, most people did not "love" him. That Prime Minister you mentioned had far more power than Michael Jackson (although perphaps not skill) and is far more important in his country.Willski72 (talk) 10:38, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that if Micheal Jackson was so minded and had called for a socialist revolution in Croatia, the Prime Minister would have been pretty powerless to stop it. MickMacNee (talk) 10:44, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Celebrities have far more power than politicians, especially when comparing the likes of Michael Jackson to the PM of Croatia. Look what a former model achieved against one of the leaders of the free world... J Milburn (talk) 10:48, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Yup. Made Gordon Brown look like a right idiot. Although that's not hard these days. MickMacNee (talk) 10:50, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it was Joanna Lumley alone who changed Brown's mind. I'd say the commons defeat he suffered weeks before on the Gurka issue was more important. I'd also state that whilst Jackson may have more power of persuasion, political leaders have more absolute power, but that is an irrelevant point. Jackson has been listed on ITN so unless there is a major development he's not going back on there. All other sections require a defined process to be followed in order to get on the main page - you can't just demand he be put up because you thinks its notable --Daviessimo (talk) 11:07, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

It seems anyone can make Gordon Brown look like a right idiot at the moment but thats not the point, Michael Jackson doesnt control Nuclear missiles a Navy an airforce and an army, whereas (for better or for worse!) Gordon Brown does.Willski72 (talk) 11:03, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I think if it was properly advertised then it would be possible for Michael Jackson to make the Featured Article slot on the 1 month anniversary of his death, by shear weight of numbers alone. Go for it Forsena, don't listen to some of the rude people here. MickMacNee (talk) 10:50, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

PS even if Michael Jackson could of set of a socialist revolution in Croatia (which i doubt) it would fizzle out after a few weeks due to lack of sustained support. If he had tried it in the 80s before he made all those rubbish modern songs then things might be different...Willski72 (talk) 11:07, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

For the most part, month anniversaries don't count for much. A year, or, even better, decade or century, anniversary would be your best bet. J Milburn (talk) 11:16, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

FWIW, discussion on whether / when to schedule Michael Jackson as Today's Featured Article is already underway here. Bencherlite^Talk 11:26, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I thought I was quite clear when I said Michael Jackson should be on Main Page you don't need telepathic skills to see that there is no words about news of his death (much different than saying news about Michael Jackson's death should be on main page), but unfortunately I wasn't so I'm sorry about that. TFOWR, spare me of your pathetic humor, I don't think it is very nice to make fun of me especially because we're all going through a very hard period because of death of Michael Jackson.Daviessimo you are assuming that I'm a POV aggressive editor because I contribute to Serbia-related articles? Your suspicions are almost as pathetic as his humor is. I was stating the fact that resignation of a PM of a small country most people never heard of isn't more important then the death of the world's best singer who has ten times more fans than of that country's population and who's one album was sold in 110 million copies. If Serbian PM resigned I would say the same. Most of things you said had nothing with MJ, but I will answer anyway, it was not a Balkan-related warring it was reverting destructive and insulting edits of an albanian editor. No, relativism theory doesn't suggest that resignation of a PM that maybe 1% of Wikipedia's visitors have heard of and death of Michael Jackson should be treated equally, if you think so you misunderstood the concept of the theory. Willski72 based on what do you suggest that one pm of a small country has more "power" than Michael Jackson? Only one Michael Jackson's album (Thriller) sold 110 million copies, that's approx 25 times more than the size of the country of that PM. In opinion of most PM you're talking about has no power compared to such an epic man like Michael Jackson. If so he wouldn't resign. Willski72 I doubt that he is more important in Croatia, but even if so, this is not Croatia's Wikipedia but World's wikipedia. I really don't care that you find his songs rubbish just to see his performance once is a proof how epic he was. The fact he got title for best singer and entertainer of the Millenium means much more than your opinion.--Forsena (talk) 17:27, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh me me me! (what about me, why was I not capitalised?) I'm collecting misunderstandings and allegations of badness and thought I was on a roll - darn it! :D (Note: This is my attempt to outdo TFOWR in the pathetic humour department - how did I do?) Anyway we're all emotional, it's very sad (there's even a section above which references his songs) and we're all having sleepless nights thinking about the suffering of his family. Our nights are divided between crying about Michael Jackson, the capsized sailors, Pakistani soldiers, lost plane passengers, drowning Europeans, blown up train victims... ;( it's been really, really tough on us all lately I can assure you of that. --candle•wicke 18:42, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Me and TWOFR have just been shot down in flames!! You were lucky to get out of that one alive Candlewicke! To Forsena i didnt say ALL his songs were rubbish, just his modern ones. It seems i underestimated the fanatical support he still has, i now realise that he could of probably pulled off a revolution. When you hear comments like "how epic he was" and "world's best dancer, singer and entertainer ever" and "Michael we love you", i now fully believe that many people would take a bullet for him! Nevertheless apart from making anguished fans commit suicide he had no real power over people, he could not raise or lower taxes, declare a state of emergency etc. Cheer up Forsena, at least we didnt mention all those obviously untrue, vile and disgusting claims brought against him over the years.Willski72 (talk) 19:04, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Wilski I would gladly take more than one bullet for him, I would do anything so he could live again, anything! He was NOT a politician he was a singer how on Earth would he lower taxes or anything like that? He donated millions and millions to help poor children. More than any/most politicians did. --Forsena (talk) 19:24, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

If I was being harsh I could say that he also spent millions on a fairytale home to fiddle with children in, then run into fantastic amounts of debt. But I won't. Oops! Just because you love Michael Jackson doesn't mean that a website you frequent should erect a shrine to the man. Some PM isn't more (or less) important than Jackson to our Main Page - it's just another news story that happened more recently and pushed him off ITN. ITN has a fixed length, every story will eventually be pushed off the bottom of it. We're not going to rewrite some policy for a pop singer, however good/famous. —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξくしーφふぁい 20:01, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

He earned millions of dollars because of his epic songs that are still popular and amazing dancing style. He didn't spend all the money on himself he gave millions and millions to poor people, to many organizations helping poor children. He also performed a lot of concerts for poor children earning no money to himself. But wait you expected him to keep his millions in a bank? What's wrong with a man who earned his money fairly to buy himself a more-than-deserved home? Many celebrities who had less money bought dozens of bigger ranches some even hundreds and weren't criticized and you criticize Michael because of one? I bet you wouldn't live in a small apartment if you had so much money. He was acquitted understand? Acquitted! It was all proven to be lies in which those boys and their parents were to earn money and media cooperated trying to make Michael be the evil guy, Michael wouldn't have hurt a fly, he loved children in fact he was a big child himself with a pure soul, unlike most spoiled celebrities. I wasn't asking anything else but to put his featured article on main page for some time, not because I love him, because he deserves it. The world, the media, his father caused him so much bad things, and still he didn't hate them. I bet most of you who insult him now, tried to imitate Moonwalking when you were little --Forsena (talk) 21:17, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Careful Vanderdecken! You're mentioning those "obviously untrue, vile and digusting claims" that are guaranteed to wind up the Michael Jackson fanatics to fever pitch!Willski72 (talk) 20:53, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Vanderdecken, have you no honor? How can you say such lies and nonsense about man who recently died. Even if you hate him can't you show little respect and honor from your side? I learned from him not to hate otherwise I would be answering in much worse language. Because of people like you he was in debts, media talked all the worst untrue BS about him which was later proven to be false. You obviously know nothing about him except what you heard in the media so can you please save that crap for yourself? For God sake even his home you are talking about is named Neverland! --Forsena (talk) 21:24, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

North Korean launch-inprecise

Shouldn't the item about the North Korean launch be changed to reflect that they were cruise missiles? In its current form the text implies that they were ballistic.--Fireaxe888 (talk) 11:19, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I would agree. I follow the line that people expect the worse, especially from a communist dictatorship that has shut down its borders and is well known for its nuclear ambitions. Its imprecise not inprecise by the way, but i wont hold it against ye!Willski72 (talk) 17:10, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Fixed. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:29, 3 July 2009 (UTC)