Talk:Eilat

E in "Eilat"

Excuse me, but why the silly accent on the E in "Eilat"? Hebrew does not use latin characters, so this accent does not come "from the original Hebrew". So the title of the article should the name of the city in English or as would be typically written by English speakers. And that is "Eilat", without any foreign-looking accent mark. Compare Tel-Aviv (not Tel-'abib or who knows what), Haifa (not Khefa, Cheifa, or whatever). I believe this article should be renamed Eilat, unaccented. Nyh 14:45, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

It is simply a more accurate Latin script transliteration convention for Hebrew. You see, in Hebrew it is regular for the accent to be on the last syllable. But then this is not the case, an acute mark can be placed over the accented syllable to show that it — rather than the last syllable — is accented. It is not "exotic", it is linguistic. - Gilgamesh 22:18, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I beg you pardon?! Maybe in a subset of the supposed set of Hebrew languages Eilat is pronounced with the first syllable accented, but Hebrew is not a member of that subset. --i@k5 22:26, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)

I recall that it is on the first syllable in Biblical Hebrew. But if it's not the case in Israeli Hebrew, then by all means move the article back. But don't change the Tiberian vocalized transliteration. Maybe someone could leave a note about the differences in stress for the name between the forms of Hebrew. - Gilgamesh 22:50, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I'm more studied in Tiberian Hebrew, to be truthful. Tiberian Hebrew and Standard Hebrew do have a lot of subtle irregular mutual differences that creep up on me all the time, so a confusion like this is an easy mistake to make. For the most prominent example I've seen of the differences, see the names for the vowels in niqqud, and how different they are between the vocalizations. (Why in the world did Standard Hebrew do this so much?) - Gilgamesh 22:56, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Um, it's most certainly on the last syllable in Israeli Hebrew, I'm not quite sure about Tiberian (is it relevant in a discussion of modern Israeli realitiy anyway?) I removed the accent in Eilat, but not in Negev. In the latter case the stress is marked correctly; the big question is whether we should mark it at all in normal English text flow.

If we do it for names from other languages in article texts (Arabic, French, Hawaiian, Japanese), why not here? :) It's always nice to have a bit more detail. When in doubt, I always add linguistic detail. - Gilgamesh 23:45, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Gilgamesh, just a reminder: YOU are not "in charge" of the Hebrew language. There are millions of Jewish Hebrew speakers with Hebrew as their first language, and familiar with English too, who have a better sense of the best way to present Hebrew words to the world at large... Find a different hobby won't you... IZAK 11:08, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Gilgamesh is at it again

Gilgamesh is determined to remove the Hebrew language from its normal rational historical moorings under cover of "scholarly" arguments, as he believes that the Jews do not have "exclusive" rights to their own language! That is perhaps why he persists in creating havoc with Hebrew names whenever he finds them, regardless of the naming conventions that are accepted and used by the whole world such as with "Eilat". See for example my debates with him at:

• Talk:Modern Hebrew language#Do Gilgamesh and Mustafa "own"_ Hebrew on Wikipedia?
• Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism/Archive 5#A serious challenge from User Gilgamesh on Hebrew language
• Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Hebrew languages#Hebrew languages and Canaanite languages

When he will stop his useless and confusing tamperings with Hebrew is anyone's guess. IZAK 08:55, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

See Talk:Negev for my response. - Gilgamesh 10:51, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

(Another response.) IZAK, I do not appreciate "Gilgamesh is at it again." It is quite pejorative, implying that I am somehow being vandalous. You are perfectly free to disagree with my approach to edits, but please stick to politely critiquing me and respect me as an editor in my fields, just as I respect your vast knowledge of the Torah. - Gilgamesh 11:00, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

But let's keep arguments about "Jews" and "their own language" away from the current discussion. I don't think this is the case here. When discussing a thriving modern city, you need to take into account the current accepted usage of its name in English texts, not just historical notions of what it might have been called 2,000 or whatever years ago. Eilat is a popular (to some degree) tourist attraction, frequented also by English-speaking tourists, and they tend to spell its name like that, "Eilat" (again, try Google), so this is how Wikipedia should also spell it. It is unrelated to how the Jews spell the name (they usually do so in Hebrew characters anyway), and this whole issue has no religious relevance at all anyway. But Gilgamesh, by denying that this city (and other names of Hebrew origin) have common (not "linguistic") transliterations into English and trying to "invent" new (you think more accurate, modern pronunciation disagrees) ones, you sound like you're implying that these names are not commonly used by modern English speakers, and I think that this implication is what bothers Izak here.

In names that have modern importance, not just historical importance, English spelling is almost always a simplified transliteration and not a 100% accurate (and that is also a questionable notion) one. See for example Istanbul. This is the perfect place to keep the accurate spelling, with a dot over the I, and yet Wikipedia didn't. Because this is an English Wikipedia and not a Turkish one, and English writes don't know what this dot means and never write it. The article also gives the accurate Turkish spelling, but it admits that the modern, actually used, spelling is the simplified one without any diacritics, dots and accents. See also Munich, another example of a "non-accurate" name but in fact the one in use by English speakers.

But I'm starting to repeat myself :(

Nyh 09:32, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I really didn't realize Eilat was that famous. I suppose I can understand putting an article name under a common name, such as Beersheva or Moscow, which are not the native names. I had gotten the impression that Eilat was more obscure because I keep seeing "Eilat", "Elat" and "Elath" as variant spellings on search engines. I also was always taught that Eilat was obscure compared to its much more famous neighbor Aqaba. - Gilgamesh 11:00, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Not sure what any of this discussion is about, but in case someone else hasn't mentioned it Israelis pronounce "Eilat" with the stress on the second syllable. --Zero 11:58, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

`Elyôn

The article titled `Elyôn also needs to be changed as its `E is not in normal use and would only confuse most readers. IZAK 07:34, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

• Similar problem with `Anat. IZAK 07:40, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Neither of these terms have a "usual" English transliteration, so the problem here is much less accute than it is in articles about modern cities or regions. I do agree though that these transliterations are strange in that there is no way that anyone is ever going to guess them and type "`Elyôn" into the "go" box. The backticks (`) are indeed accepted transliterations of ayin, though, so I don't know if to suggest to remove it or not. I don't understand the accent-circumflex on the o though. In French, the accent-circumflex suggests that a letter has been lost, and this is not the case here. Nyh 09:34, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

• Placing these comments (so far) on the `Elyôn and `Anat pages so that their author can take note... IZAK 09:57, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Oh please, not again, Gilgamesh. Can't you PLEASE leave well enough alone? Eilat. Givatayim. That's what they're called in the press, and in tourist guides, and in signs all over Israel. Why complicate life with obscure apostrophes and stresses? --Woggly 10:41, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Yikes, I can't believe it - Gilgamesh just renamed the Givatayim article, after this discussion of the Negev and Eilat was already ongoing :( Gilgamesh, why do you insist on modifying spellings of modern Israeli places, when all the Israelis disagree with the way you write them and believe that your changes are harming the usefulness of the articles? In particular, I still don't understand the stress thing, which has no place in an English language name of a place. Nyh 10:49, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I have reverted Givatayim back to its common usage. When will User:Gilgamesh stop his butchering of common and rational Hebrew usage on Wikipedia? IZAK 11:03, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Názerat Illit is Gilgameshe's latest "victim". And I believe not only is the stress mark not useful in the article name, worse - it is again in the wrong place. Israelis pronounce the first word as "Natsrat", with the stress on the second syllable. Nyh 11:43, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I didn't move the pages after all our discussion. Nyh made a good point, and I wouldn't contest such a revert now. And as this seems to be a more complex sign of difference between Ancient and Modern forms of the languages (before, people had always told me they were the same language with negligible grammatical differences), it would seem wise not to make such moves in the future unless I knew it wouldn't be widely rejected. Instead of burning me in effigy, simply quietly correct my mistakes and explain the error while you do it. These are easy mistakes to make, as these are irregular stress differences between Biblical and Israeli Hebrew. I will not tolerate allegations of "butchery" in this academic setting. - Gilgamesh 13:25, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Here's another tip, Gilgamesh: don't let yourself get antagonised by IZAK's comments. You should have read enough of them by now to realise that this is how he expresses himself in arguments, it doesn't look like he'll be changing his style soon. When I disagree with you, I tell you that I disagree with you. When IZAK disagrees with you, he tells you that you are an antisemite promoting your hateful agenda. Just try to ignore it. But please don't make assumptions about the pronounciation of modern Hebrew based on whatever you know about biblical Hebrew. These assumptions are evidently often wrong. The wikipedia notation for the name of a modern city should reflect the conventions used by people who live, work, visit and do business in that city, not the conventions of those who know the city only through ancient and historical texts. In all seriousness now: maybe you should try to learn some modern Hebrew? Take a class, listen to tapes, meet with some Israelis. It could only expand your linguistic abilities. --Woggly 09:10, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I have already agreed to readdress Modern Hebrew before I try to make more logic leaps. In honesty, I may decide to give up Modern Hebrew edits if I keep running into etymological irregularities like these. And as for IZAK...when IZAK accuses me of grandiose crimes and grievous sins, I know he's just blowing smoke, but it's also like he's contempting my right to exist in his universe. It may seem hard to understand, but... I can easily deal with mere immaturity and empty insults — I shrug them off and do what I can to embrace friendship and peace. But contempt — particularly when it exists where I must continually witness it again and again — is something that feels very sharp, very cold, very toxic. It pulls and erases every feeling around it like a black hole, from which nothing remains but complete bitterness, utter nihilism, and even more contempt than before, feeding the black hole's size and expanding its event horizon. I mean, have you ever had a massive near-gangrenous infection that made you feel cold even on a warm day, and was old healed by having the dead flesh amputated (e.g. severe toe infection)? It's rather like that. I'm allergic to contempt, because contempt is a lot more real and more serious than mere unkind words. I would really prefer IZAK not to be contemptuous of me at all, so that we could collaborate professionally without mudslinging, the way you and I and others collaborate. That would be absolutely fantastic, absolutely grand. - Gilgamesh 11:33, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Negev

Just letting you guys know that I changed Négev to Negev. It's the common Latin transliteration, and since the stress isn't marked in Hebrew, it doesn't need to be in English. Besides, the acute accent was unclear; the first pronunciation that it suggested to me was [ˈnegɛv], even though I know the real one.Benji man 29 June 2005 13:55 (UTC)

Eilat / Elat

The transliteration of the Hebrew spelling as used by the Survey of Israel (HaMerkaz leMippui Yisrael, formerly Agaf haMedidot) maps for many years has been Elat. The English conventional spelling is Eilat, as is found in numerous holiday brochures. This was also the earlier (1960s ?) Survey of Israel convention. Eylat or Eylath are marginally more "scientific" transliterations of the Hebrew but are really never used. The use of the acute accent does not necessarily indicate stress, which would be incorrect for this word - it could simply indicate vowel quality and would be an accurate rendering into, say, French, of the Hebrew pronunciation, where the i or y sound is barely audible. It is, however, not used by Survey of Israel. Some of the previous contributors need to calm down, and the discussion is going off topic. NGH.

Actually my father chose the spelling "Eylath" as the transliteration of our family name. Unfortunately it works only in non-Englosh Speaking Europe, where it is always pronocuced correctly. In English speaking countries, it is a disaster, usually pronocunced Eye-lath or Elie-ath, with man more butcheries. "Eilat" works best for English, from my experience. AAE

Battleship Eilat

Does anyone have any more information on that ship? Reply on my talk page --V. Joe 23:30, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

The airport is no longer domestic

There are international fights there, for several years now, specially from western Europe, but also from the US and sometimes even from Far East.

My English is not good enough for the English Wikipedia, so I'd be greatfull for whoever updates the article. 89.138.102.146 18:09, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

History

I wish there was more about the history of this city. Anybody who knows more, please share. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RFoglio (talk • contribs) [1]

right. there is almost nothing about the history between ancient times and 1947/48, as if the town hadn't existed in these centuries! --Severino (talk) 17:18, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

It really hadn't existed in these centuries.Great article improvement btw. Looks great. One of Israel's most awesome cities. Cheers, Amoruso (talk) 01:35, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

as far as i know, the city was known as "umm rash rash" (and was inhabited by palestinians) before 1948 and the nakba. a fact that has to be concealed, i see. awesome article. --Severino (talk) 15:47, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

it is a part of Aqaba area of Jordan and it was abandoned exept a police station of Desert force. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.220.118.251 (talk) 23:32, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

It was a police post on the Palestinian side of the Palestine-Transjordan border. Zero^talk 02:12, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Article improvement

A few of us are going to be working on the article to improve it. I'll mainly be doing some cosmetic and behind the scenes work, formatting, manual of style fixes, etc., but there will be others working on content. What content work I'll be doing today is to remove the promotional-tone of the Tourism section, as each item is written as a mini-advertisement, and needs to be neutralized, keeping in mind the list of words to avoid, and the peacock terms that should be avoided in articles. I've also done some work with re-ordering the sections, moving the history up, moving the huge panoramic image down to the very bottom, and I removed the gallery and placed the images into the article. Now, I have a request: There is a news report that was in the external links, that I've added to the article, which talks about the history of Eilat with regards to Egypt's claim of it. The article is found here, and since I'm not familiar with the history/politics, I request someone who is familiar with it add this information (not copying from the news URL, of course) into the end of the history section, and at the end of the sentences to reference the information, immediately following the period, put <ref name="jpost" /> (exactly as seen here). This will add the citation to the passage, as the source is already inline. Ariel♥Gold 15:36, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

In most Israeli city articles, the emblem of the city appears under the photo in the infobox. Does anyone know how to put it there?--Gilabrand 06:38, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

I looked into this, and in most of the cities, a high quality landscape photo is shown, to illustrate the city. The crest doesn't sufficiently illustrate the city, so that's why I moved it. See Ashdod, Ashkelon, Beersheba, Dimona, etc. Images are used to illustrate the topic, and I don't think that the city's crest does that for someone coming to the page who is unfamiliar with the city. In the vast majority of all city articles, worldwide, an image of the city's landscape is shown for this reason. For the guideline on layout of sections, refer to Wikipedia:WikiProject_Cities/Guideline. Ariel♥Gold 06:47, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

I didn't say INSTEAD of the photo, but under it. Personally, I don't think it adds much either, but I see that it is done on many Israel city pages.--Gilabrand 06:54, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh, alright, you mean inside the infobox? Apologies that I did not understand that's what you meant. This particular infobox only has parameters for one image, I have yet to see two images used in this particular infobox. The option would be to change to a more generic infobox, if you think that would be better? Ariel♥Gold 07:03, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

It's up to you. I don't know much about the infoboxes. On another subject, someone just added a long list of "also sees" - but most of them are already linked in the article and are not needed.--Gilabrand 07:17, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I noticed that. Generally the "See also" section is for related articles that provide relevant information not included in the article, and not previously wiki-linked. So those that are redundant could be removed from the section. As for infoboxes, it appears that this infobox is used in all but two of the cities in the template box at the bottom, so it would appear to be the current standard for Israel's South District. I kind of like the clean look of it, but the other infobox would be the one found in the Arad, Israel article. I'm not sure this article has enough information to really fill that infobox out (demographics, mostly). As mentioned, mostly I'm just involved in the cosmetic aspects, and not so much the content, and I'll be going through the article to put all the references into standardized templates at some point soon, but I don't have any preference for one thing or the other, except for just trying to bring the article's format up to the guidelines for cities, and to neutralize the tone (which you've done with the tourism section, well done on that Gil!) So feel free to make any changes you like, and if you need formatting help let me know :) Ariel♥Gold 07:23, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi: About the function of "See also" it's not a hard and fast rule, as sometimes it can be a way of summarizing the connecting articles too, and quite often articles in the "See also" section were not openly evident having been covered up by other wording, see Wikipedia:Piped link. At any rate, it's not a life and death issue. IZAK 08:03, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Quite true. It isn't as though the list is so long it is distracting. Perhaps some of the items could be removed, like the airports, but I don't consider it to be a big issue, personally. Glad to see so many folks coming in to help with the article! I think we were all united by dear Shir-El Too, so thanks to her for putting the focus on this interesting place, and for her dedication to improving the article! Ariel♥Gold 09:09, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi Ariel: Thanks for the kind words. Why remove the links to the airports of all things?, they are the crucial keys to the over one million tourists who come to Eilat each year, and growing! IZAK 09:33, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Ahh, well as mentioned, I'm unfamiliar with the city, so at first glance, the airports were covered in the article, and linked, so they just seemed superfluous to link in the "See also" section. As I said, I don't think it is a huge deal, so I've no real opinion on it ;) Ariel♥Gold 09:43, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

WOW!

It does not look like the same article! I'm trying to find a sufficiently novel way to say Thank You all, because I have been and will continue to be writing Thank You a lot! I'm working on Timna (which I've always written as "Timmna" btw) [facts, just the facts], and more weather info, because unfortunately Eilat's "dry" climate is in the past; for the last 20+ years humidity has been steadily rising and it has been +/-50% relative and more for over 2 years. Rav Todot - Many Thanks, Shir-El too 11:11, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Could someone please move the coordinates back into the infobox? They are unreadable under the donation drive blurb, and I've seen it done this way elsewhere. Thank you, Shir-El too 11:17, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, the donation box will be gone soon, it is a temporary thing. The function of the coordinate system has them at the upper right corner, and users can hide the donation box, so it shouldn't interfere. (If it does interfere, that's an issue with the donation box coding itself, and not with the article or the coordinates template). Additionally, putting them into the infobox would still make them show up at the top, since that's the function of the system. See Template:Infobox Israel municipality and look at the top, that's the way the infobox (and all of the city/location infoboxes) have them formatted. If it is a big deal, it could be taken out completely until the donation box is gone, but that removes the ability to click on the coords and locate them with the various tools. See New York, Paris, Cairo, London, Tokyo, etc., they all use this format, as it is the standard geo-location template. I know the donation box is a pain right now, but it's a short term thing :o) Ariel♥Gold 11:34, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Great work

This article now looks great! I think it is very close in terms of content to GA standard. What I think is holding it back is the citations and references of the article. I really think that once these are added the article should be submitted as a GA candidate. Just to let you know, the Ashdod article was in a very similar state and within a matter of days was a GA article! --Flymeoutofhere (talk) 18:59, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Something missing?

Hi all, it seems to me that this page is a bit poor: there is more than a thousand year of history of this city missing. Maybe it was razed in the past and then rebuilt with the foundation of Israel? Or maybe someone more acknowledged can help. Famargar 11:28PM, 28 June 2008

This is true. Eilat was an ancient city and it's a modern city. When the city was founded in modern times by Israel, there was nothing but sand AFAIK. There was an Egyptian police station of Um Rash Rash I believe. Amoruso (talk) 16:08, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether the history of ancient Elath belongs to this article, as they two are unrelated except by name (the location is close, but not precise). For example, I have not including the history of Tel Arad in Arad, Israel. I think that modern history needs to be expanded because it's indeed in a very poor state at the moment. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 16:38, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

It's almost as if accounts on this site are being very disingenuous as to the history of Eilat and how it came to now somehow, be inside Israel? Apeholder (talk) 16:50, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

No, the police station was of Jordan (Desert force). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.220.118.251 (talk) 23:30, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Sweden invades Eilat

Evidently some industrious soul at Uppsala University is determined to rewrite this article's lede to identify Eilat as an occupied city. He or she should know that this change will be reverted as many times as it is made, because there is no evidence to support it; nor, indeed, has this editor or any of his legion of sockpuppets even attempted to adduce any -- chiefly because their isn't any to adduce: Eilat is not recognized as occupied in any credible international forum.

That said, a little over two years ago there was a brief kerfuffle in the Egyptian parliament over the status of Eilat. Opposition members attempted to take the government to task over Eilat, producing a 1906 document stating, in the name of the Ottoman Sultan, that Umm Rashrash belonged to Egypt. The government attempted to outflank their opponents by adopting the position that Umm Rashrash actually belonged to the Palestinians (and so was not their problem). Committees were struck; experts consulted. Much noise and heat followed, and finally the government sawed the baby in half and adopted the compromise position that Eilat belonged formally to Egypt, but that administrative control belonged properly to the Palestinians. In the sequel, voices in certain quarters in Israel were raised to demand that Egyptian foreign minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit be denied entry into Israel until Egypt formally renounced its claim to Eilat. It was, on all sides, as dreary a dog-and-pony show as might be imagined, one which every side used either to excite its base or deflect criticism, and was suffused throughout with more than a faint air of the ludicrous. Meanwhile, holidaymakers in Eilat seemed blissfully unaware of the tussles over sovereignty that were catapulting them back and forth between opposite sides of an imagined frontier.

None of it had any real consequence, but if somebody wants to research the controversy and add a brief mention of it in the body of the article, I see no reason for objection -- provided the addition is neutral and well-sourced. --Rrburke^(talk) 18:09, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Latest edits...

I've done some major layout changes, reduced the number of pictures (this article has always been top-heavy) and generally tried to streamline it. Someone also left an archeological reference to a discovery made (no date) between Eilat and Aqaba with a Biblical reference, but without a source. If that person comes back with the missing information I'll be happy to edit the English. Cheers! Shir-El too 18:33, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Biblical Elath

According to a source usually regarded as authoritative (Yoram Tsafrir, Leah Di Segni and Judith Green (1994). Tabula Imperii Romani: Judaea, Palaestina. Jerusalem: Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities. p. 59.), Biblical Elath is identified with Aqaba, not with modern Eilat. It seems to me that the "Israelite Period" section is mistaken and doesn't belong. I propose to replace it by a sentence something like "Eilat is named after the Biblical city of Elath, identified with nearby Aqaba." Any objections? Zero^talk 12:56, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

The source "Michael Rice(1990). Egypt's Making. Routledge", without page number, is given for "Eilat is mentioned in antiquity as a major trading partner with Elim, Thebes' Red Sea Port, as early as the Twelfth dynasty of Egypt." I cannot find anything about Eilat (or Aila, or other spelling) in that book. I searched on Google books and at Amazon, and I also looked through the index. Unless someone can identify a source for this explicitly, it has to go. Actually a rewrite of the history section is overdue. Zero^talk 14:57, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

And how about "Eilat is first mentioned in the Hebrew Bible in the Book of Exodus." I don't think so! It is in Deut 2, and 2 Kings (twice). Anyone disagree? Zero^talk 15:24, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

I don't object in principle, but there's one problem: the article Aqaba has absolutely no information on the Israelite period. Since this article isn't a closed garden, I think the information should be moved to the article Aqaba before removing it from here. —Ynhockey ^(Talk) 23:48, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

I found a very good source with several pages of history of this region. Mostly it is referred to Aqaba, since Aqaba is considered to be the continuation of the ancient city. So I will work on it there first. Zero^talk 00:30, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

I made a File:AqabaComposite.png but it is hard to find space. Maybe we don't need photos of the airport and the IMAX theater? Zero^talk 16:09, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Ecology

I wish if could read how many areas have been reforested with trees or palm trees, and how many places with vegetation or wildlife someone can to visite. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonia Murillo Perales (talk • contribs) 14:42, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

The "After the establishment of the State of Israel" section needs improvement

This section contains some unsubstantiated, controversial content about a mass grave found in 2008. It also has some issues with grammar and flow. I'm no expert in this area, I'd be glad if others could help fix this.

This isn't a request for comment, it's a request for contribution. That's not what this process is for. -Oreo Priest ^talk 18:36, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

That paragraph seems to me mostly copied from other places and contains strange non-sequitors. It needs rewriting. Zero^talk 03:01, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Comment—not sure how an RfC applies here. RfCs should only be conducted after discussion on the article's talk page failed (either because of a dispute or due to not enough input). Zero0000 essentially solved the problem by removing the problematic sentence. —Ynhockey ^(Talk) 11:24, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

• I agree, this is not really a RFC. United States Man (talk) 18:26, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

• I would say that the section mentioned above is poorly sourced and needs a major rewrite. So I agree with Oreo Priest that it is a request for contribution.--Vyom25 (talk) 11:21, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Size

The infobox says Eilat is 32 square miles in size. That would make it larger in area than Tel Aviv, Haifa, and Beersheba if true. Can someone please double-check?--RM (Be my friend) 01:22, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it is much smaller than that. From measuring it on Google Earth, I guess it is 3 square miles at most. Perhaps the 32 refers to the district. For now I am just taking it out. Zero^talk 11:16, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

It is absolutely correct, although 32 miles is a little off because we use the metric system. Here is a source, assuming that there were no jurisdiction changes since 2005: http://www.cbs.gov.il/publications/local_authorities2005/pdf/102_2600.pdf

You can see that the city is 84,729 metric dunams, of which 73,868 dunams (87.1%) is empty space and the other land use is divided into residential (3,819 dunams), education (156), health (36), public services (215), culture and leisure (617), commerce (75), industry and infrastructure (4,724), transportation (56), agricultural structures (163), public space (952), forestry (47), orchards (7) and plowed fields (52). —Ynhockey ^(Talk) 19:10, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

P.S. You can also see this visually on my outdated map: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Map_of_administrative_regions_in_Israel.png —Ynhockey ^(Talk) 19:12, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Does the Sinai mountain range extend into Eilat?

Does the Sinai mountain range extend into Eilat? I am not speaking of the political "Sinai" mountain range but the physical, geographical mountain range. Looking at the map it seems decidedly so, except I can find no reference concerning this anywhere.

CWatchman (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:13, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Re: recent removal of Arabic

See User_talk:Tosilormlfcae#Misleading.3F for discussion of recent edits. User has removed the discussion from their talk page, so I will sum it up here. The user felt that there was no need for Arabic because "Eilat Is irasel's city" and called it "potentially misleading".

Israel's official languages are Hebrew and Arabic. All cities have names in both languages and all articles on Wikipedia mention both. Tel Aviv is clearly an Israeli city, but has its Arabic spelling as well. EvergreenFir (talk) 15:34, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

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Ayla

Shouldn't the article for Ayla (city) be linked here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ארינמל (talk • contribs) 12:09, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

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Please add under notable people

• Katy Spychakov (born 1999), Israeli windsurfer — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:E010:1100:E86E:DF6C:407C:D694 (talk) 07:37, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

Stolen history

ST Parker, Preliminary Report on the 1994 Season of the Roman Aqaba Project, Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research, No. 305 (Feb., 1997), pp. 19-44.

To editor Reenem: A large part of the old history presented on this page is actually the history of Aqaba or other places in Jordan that are not part of modern Eilat. This is really quite misleading and unacceptable. The settlement was at Aqaba in the Roman, Byzantine, and Islamic periods. Not here. Zero^talk 03:51, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

@Zero0000 and Reenem: an excellent read here which would be worth adding to this article, as well as to Hebraization of Palestinian place names:[2]

The issue of Eilat took up another chunk of the committee’s time. In 1949, Eilat did not exist. The city was founded only in 1952. But a place by the name of Eilat appears time and again in the biblical record. It was one of the stations in the wanderings of the people of Israel during the exodus from Egypt. King Solomon built ships on the shore of the Sea of Sof, in the land of Edom at Etzion Gever, which is Eilat. King Azariya of Judah built the city of Eilat, and so on and so forth. However, the location of this place called Eilat or Etzion Gaver remained unclear. On the shore of the gulf, where the big shopping mall of Eilat is today, a small adobe hut stood. The hut served as a British police station called Umm Rashrash. “On the map,” Yeivin explained, “we see a place called Umm Rashrash and next to it the name Eilat. But Eilat was not here. Biblical and Roman Eilat were across the border in Jordan. The name Eilat should be erased from the map.”; “We cannot give up Eilat,” Press retorted, “when the real Eilat finally is in our hands, our settlement will expand and reach over to there.” David Amiran, the geographer, suggested that Eilat should be the name of the settlement that would be built on the shore of the gulf, which should be called the Gulf of Eilat. Ben-Zvi was for eliminating Umm Rashrash from the map together with Etzion Gaver. Eilat is Eilat, he said, musing that maybe the committee should call Umm Rashrash Etzion Gaver and establish Eilat elsewhere. The committee ultimately decided to replace the name Umm Rashrash with Eilat. Etzion Gaver was commemorated on the map by dubbing a well along the coast Be’er Etzion Gever. Today the well is buried under the artificial lagoon in Eilat.

Onceinawhile (talk) 15:47, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

On the basis of this, the whole “ancient city” section should be removed and put into either Elath or Ayla (city). Onceinawhile (talk) 21:25, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

A Jewish city with the same name existed in the same general area (and were it not for the border that exists today between Israel and Jordan I don't think that it'd be too controversial). The sources say Eilat but at the bare minimum something about this history should be mentioned in the article on Eilat.--RM (Be my friend) 21:31, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Lol, I think wikipedia should aim a bit higher than to parrot zionist propagandist, Huldra (talk) 21:46, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

So accurately mentioning that there was a subtantial historical Jewish population in the area is "Zionist propaganda" now?

"In the area" /= "in another country", Huldra (talk) 22:51, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Cassius Clay changed his name, but that doesn’t mean his biography should start in 19th century Egypt.

In the quote above, Press was wrong, as his irredentist dreams did not materialize. We can should explain why they called this patch of land Eilat, as part of the Negev Naming Committee, and consistent with Biblical Nationalism. But it is not acceptable to co-opt Jordanian history here. Onceinawhile (talk) 21:43, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Looking at one of the main sources (Gil), it is clear that Gil uses the spelling "Eilat" when discussing "Ayla/Aila", which was the name of Aqaba during the period of Gil's study. He does that even when citing Arabic sources, and says as much in the sentence previous to the one cited for a Jewish population (p31). Gil's source (Procopius) calls it Αあるふぁἰλらむだὰς (Aelas) and Αあるふぁἰλらむだᾶ (Aela). The meaning is that Aqaba had a Jewish population, not that there was some other city that archaeology is yet to discover. Of course a Jewish population should be mentioned, but in the article on the place where they lived, which was not here. Actually my translation of Procopius (Loeb Classical Library) disagrees with Gil on what Procopius wrote: "On this island [Iotabe] Hebrews had lived from of old in autonomy, but in the reign of this Justinian they have become subject to the Romans." Gil's footnote confuses the issue further by identifying Eilat with Etzion Gaver, which is by no means accepted. There is a lot in Petersen "The Towns of Palestine Under Muslim Rule". Zero^talk 03:35, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Hi Zero0000, do you know where we could get the original of this map? I have looked in the Survey of Palestine (Anglo-American Committee) but could not find it. Onceinawhile (talk) 07:58, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

@Onceinawhile: A good question. The maps of the southern Negev which are included in the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, for which the Survey of Palestine was prepared, show a curved boundary reaching the gulf further to the west, not far from Um Rashrash. However the 1:250K map in the SofP shows this straight section labeled "Demarcated in 1946". I'm thinking that Biger's source might be Survey of Palestine rather than Survey of Palestine (Anglo-American Committee). Zero^talk 09:07, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

The same map is published on page 414 of Volume 1 of [3], but I do not have access to find their source. Onceinawhile (talk) 15:36, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

You can buy it from amazon.com for a mere $3,920.38. I once got a different Archive Editions series on interlibrary loan. Despite the $X,000 price the maps were not even in color. Zero^talk 16:38, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

• Obviously relevant. Some of the ancient locations are fuzzy, like Elath. Only 2 kilometers separate between Eilat and Aqaba anyway, they are in walking distance and people cross over for daily work. 11Fox11 (talk) 18:20, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

This suggestion contravenes WP:OR. Onceinawhile (talk) 20:54, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

And it is also irrelevant and false. Until very recent urban spread, the distance was much greater than 2km. Putting history in the wrong place is unacceptable. Zero^talk 03:05, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Per Zero's comment above, p.4 and p.929 (index) of Gil are clear that his references to "Eilat" are actually to Ayla (city). I will move them to the correct article. Onceinawhile (talk) 08:28, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

I have moved a sentence from the 1998 Rough Guide to here for discussion:

In 1116, Crusader forces captured Eilat. After Muslim forces retook it, Saladin had a fortress built there to guarantee safe passage for pilgrims en route to Mecca. After 1588, Eilat was all but abandoned following the construction of a new Ottoman fortress east of Aqaba.[4]

This subject is covered well in Robinson's Biblical Researches in Palestine, volume 1, page 252:

"In A. D. 1116, King Baldwin I. of Jerusalem, with two hundred followers, made an excursion to the Red Sea; took possession of Ailah, which he found deserted... It was again wrested from the hands of the Christians by Saladin in A.D. 1167... In Abulfeda's day, and before A. D. 1800, it was already deserted; for this writer expressly says of Ailah: “In our day it is a fortress, to which a governor is sent from Egypt. It had a small castle in the sea; but this is now abandoned, and the governor removed to the fortress on the shore.” Such as Ailah was in the days of Abulfeda, is 'Akabah now."

The castle being referred to is Castle of Saladin, Pharaoh's Island. So we can safely say that the Rough Guide was using the word "Eilat" incorrectly.

Separately, Robinson says: "the first Frank who has visited it personally in modern times, was Rüppell, in A. D. 1822." I will try to find this reference. Onceinawhile (talk) 13:09, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Check your mail.

Rüppell, Eduard, 1823, ‘Voyage fait en 1822 dans l’Arabie Petree’, Journal des Voyages 19, 5–44.

Rüppell, Eduard, 1823, ‘Itinéraire de M. Edouard Rüppell, traversant l’Arabie Pétrée depuis Suez jusqu’à Akaba et de la retour à’ Suez par le mont Sinai; pour l’explication de la carte spéciale de cette peninsula jointe à ce cahir’, Journal des Voyages 19, 44–53. Zero^talk 13:29, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Rüppell's map is here. The two articles are here, starting on p5 and p44. Zero^talk 13:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Uploaded here. Onceinawhile (talk) 14:11, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Now uploaded the 1826 version here. Onceinawhile (talk) 16:05, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Ruppell's map. The border of Israel Jordan runs through what is described as "marais saumâtre", which means brackish marsh.

Hi Zero0000, I have found an even better map from Ruppell:

Rüppell, Eduard (1823). "Carte du Golfe d'Akaba dans la Mer Rouge, levée en Juillet 1822". Correspondance astronomique, géographique, hydrographique et statistique. A. Ponthenier, imprimeur-fondeur. pp. 581 et seq.

MAP

Onceinawhile (talk) 13:56, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

To editor Onceinawhile: While I agree of course that Rough Guide can't be accepted as a source, I'm not sure you are correct. Ellenblum's book "Crusader Castles and Modern Histories" lists two relevant "towers or castles". One is Ailai at 150/881 (Aqaba) first mentioned 1115, and the other is Isle de Graye (Jazirat Fara'un) at 136/875 (Pharoah's Island) first mentioned 1116-7, destroyed 1170. It seems there is little information on them. Zero^talk 14:08, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Pringle's "Secular buildings in the Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem" says of Isle de Graye: "At one time thought to contain Frankish work, but clearance and restoration in early 1980s now makes it seem more likely that the castle is entirely an Ayyubid foundation". Zero^talk 14:13, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. This seems to tie with the Rough Guide's statement that "Saladin had a fortress built there to guarantee safe passage for pilgrims en route to Mecca" - I don't think any other castle in the area could have been built by Saladin? Onceinawhile (talk) 14:20, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Ruppell's description

Below is Ruppell's description of the area, from Rüppell, Eduard (1829). Reisen in Nubien, Kordofan und dem peträischen Arabien vorzüglich in geographisch-statistischer Hinsicht. Wilmans, Friedrich.. You can follow his route starting at the top left of the map shown above, where the word "inscriptions" is written (that is the map he refers to in Zach's correspondence).

“ Wir gebrauchten über fünf Stunden Zeit für den Weg von dieser Hochebene nach dem Meeresufer, wegen der vielfachen Windungen zwischen wilden Massen von Porphyrfels. An den gefahrvollen Stellen ist der Weg in die Felsmasse bei dreissig Fuss breit ausgehauen. Auch hier verewigt eine Inschrift die Stifter dieses mühsamen Werks, das gewiss jährlich recht oft von frommen Pilgern auf der Wallfahrt nach Mekka gepriesen wird. Dieser Gebirgsabfall heisst Gebel Mahemar; die Gegend jenseits des Thales benannte man mir Gebel Arab.

In östlicher Richtung verfolgte unser Weg während einer Stunde die Küste des Meeres, welche hier ein salziger Sumpf bildet; dann erreichten wir die Stätte einer alten Ansiedelung, erkenntlich durch mehrere grosse Schutthaufen, vermuthlich Ueberbleibsel des alterthümlichen Ailat, worüber ich selbst in der Folge direkte Bestätigung erhielt. Das trockene Strombette des Wadi Araba trennt diese Ruinen von den Trümmern einer weit moderneren Ansiedelung, die unter Dattelpalmen zerstreuet liegen. Es sind niedere Mauern von rohen Steinen mit Lehm verbunden. Einige derselben dienen periodisch den Beduinen des Araberstammes Hamaran zur Wohnstätte. Ganz in der Nähe, nach Osten zu, liegt, an Dat telpflanzungen angelehnt, das Schlofs Akaba.

Ein regelmässiges Viereck von wohlerhaltenen Mauern, mit achtseitigen Thürmen auf den vier Winkeln, bildet diese Feste; sie liegt einige hundert Schritte vom Meeresufer entfernt. Der Pascha von Egypten unterhält hier eine Besatzung von vierzig Soldaten." Der Thorweg ist. noch besonders durch zwei thurmförmige Bollwerke vertheidiget. In der Thorhalle sind viele arabische Inschriften ausgehauen. Meine geringen Kenntnisse in der arabischen Sprache, und die Verzierungen, womit die einzelnen Buchstaben verunstaltet sind, yerhinderten mich, eine brauchbare Abschrift davon zu nehmen.

Selbst Burckhardt, der einen Theil der hiesigen Gegend bereiste, war der Meinung, das Meer von Akaba bilde hier zwei Busen. Aber dieses ist ganz irrig; hier will Niemand etwas von solch einer Gestaltung wissen, Diese Auskunft war mir nicht genügend; ich wollte selbst etwas von der Ostküste dieses Meerbusens in Augenschein nehmen. Eine gute halbe Stunde südöstlich von Akaba fand ich bei einer Excursion längs der Küste die Ruinen einer Verschanzung, Kasser Bedowi genannt; sie ist ein arabisches Gebäude, höchst wahrscheinlich vor Erbauung des Schlosses Akaba zur Vertheidigung der Pilgerkaravane bestimmt, die hier, nach Mekka ziehend, vorüber gehet. Von hier aus konnte ich einen grossen Theil der Ostküste des Meerbusens übersehen; in der Folge durchwanderte ich ganz speciell die westlichen Ufer desselben; nirgends bemerkte ich Buchten, vergleichbar mit denjenigen, welche man hier vermuthet. Eine von mir aufgenommene Karte des Golfs von Akaba in ziemlich grofsem Maassstab findet sich in Zach's Corresp. Astronomique Vol. VIII.

In der Gegend von Akaba gibt es auch nicht ein Fahrzeug; die Araber bedienen sich einiger zusammengebundener Palmbaumstämme, um auf den Fischfang auszufahren. Es war mir daher nicht möglich, über die Tiefe des Meeres oder über die Art der Bodenfläche Forschungen anzustellen. Die Küste ist übrigens fischreich, besäet mit Korallenstämmen, und wird sonst noch durch eine grosse Mannichfaltigkeit von Seegeschöpfen belebt; unter andern fiel mir das Farbenspiel einer Korallenart *) auf, die, so lange sie, von ihren Polypen belebt, unter Wasser ist, sehr schön rosenroth erscheint; aus dem Meere genommen ist sie von schmutzig gelber Farbe

Man versicherte mir zu Akaba, dass in den ostlich gelegenen Gebirgen sich sehr schöne, gans vorzüglich gut erhaltene Ruinen von Gebäuden besänden; aber der wilde and unwirthbare Charakter der Einwohner macht das Besichtigen derselben so zu sagen unmöglich. Man rühmte mir ganz besonders die ausgedehnten und prachtvollen Colonnaden von Araba (Petra?) welches nar anderthalb Tagemärsche von Akaba entfernt liegt.

Auf meine Nachfragen nach dem Namen des Distrikts, wo die eben angeführten Schutthaufen sich vorsinden, berichtete man mir, dass er Gelena heisse; vermuthlich lag hier einstens Eilat. Ost durchstreiste ich den Bezirk dieser Trümmer in verschiedenen Richtungen, aber nie stiess ich auf eine bemerkenswerthe Ruine; ich nehme davon ans einen schön quadrirten weissen Marmorblock, circa drei Schuh lang; er ist erst seit wenig Jahren zu Tage gekommen, als die Bewohner ein altes Bad (Grab?) ausgruben, in dessen Wanne (Sarkophag?) sich mehrere Goldmünzen vorfanden.

”

Onceinawhile (talk) 14:35, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Gebel Gatal Mahamar

"Mount Solomon"

Ruppell's map shows "Gebel Gatal Mahamar", and his text above "Gebel Mahemar". My guess is that this is now called "Mount Solomon", presumably so named by the Negev Naming Committee. I have googled "Mahamar" and "Mahemar" but no luck. Any idea on where we could source this would be appreciated. Onceinawhile (talk) 17:58, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Separately, I assume that Umm RashRash was at the point where the two roads meet, between Gebel Mahemar and the marshland. A source which confirms this would be valuable for this article. Onceinawhile (talk) 18:00, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Um Rashrash is shown correctly in the sketch map above. I based it on a 1:25K map from 1943. There was a road along the flat top of the Gulf continuing ENE in the direction of Suez, and another road running down the east coast of the gulf. The police post was on the latter road about 200m south of the junction. Earlier maps (like two military maps I have from 1915) show it a few hundred meters north, on the north side of the ENE road, but still close to the northern-most shore of the Gulf. I wonder if it moved. Zero^talk 05:35, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Zero0000, interesting thank you. I presume those maps don’t give a name for the mountain peak immediately west of Umm Rashrash? I didn’t realize there were SoP / military maps of the area – I just looked again and couldn’t find them in the batch on commons. Onceinawhile (talk) 06:32, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

I didn't find a map with a named peak in that location. I also wonder about Rüppell's scale. I'll send you some maps later today. Zero^talk 06:39, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Removing prejudicial statement

The statement "one committee member, Yeshayahu Press, justified the co-opting of the name by stating "when the real Eilat finally is in our hands, our settlement will expand and reach over to there." is prejudicial in nature and should be removed because:

• It was a statement by a single person.
• It was never policy by Israel, nor was any attempt made to conquer the area.
• Jordan was in a state of war against Israel, and had made a major effort to destroy Israel in the preceding year's 1948 War of Independence.

In other cities' histories, a statement of this little significance would not be included. In fact, likely almost no one would be aware of it. It's inclusion is likely the result of rather obsessive anti-Israel activists hunting down obscure negative material and promoting it.

 Not done thanks for your suggestion. Quotations are usually made by a single person, and the author and context is clear from the sentence. Onceinawhile (talk) 08:01, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Please add

{{Largest Israeli cities}}--2604:2000:E010:1100:68A0:D758:F52B:2D8B (talk) 01:01, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

climate

record low temperature -3.9C https://www.visualcrossing.com/weather-history/eilat/metric/2008-01-16/2008-01-17

climate

Subzero temperatures can be observed every few years. It is deadly for tropical plants such as coconut trees. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coconut — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.54.94.57 (talk) 04:30, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

climate

Even in the neighboring regions of Akaba Bay, subzero temperatures can be observed in winter. Even in Florida, freezing temperatures can be observed. Don't you think this is silly propaganda?

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 September 2021

Eilat (/eɪˈlɑːt/ ay-LAHT, UK also /eɪˈlæt/ ay-LAT; Hebrew: אֵילַת [eˈlat] ; Arabic: إِيلَات, romanized: Īlāt), is Israel's southernmost city...

To:

Eilat (/eɪˈlɑːt/ ay-LAHT, UK also /eɪˈlæt/ ay-LAT; Hebrew: אֵילַת [eˈlat] ; Arabic: إِيلَات, romanized: Īlāt) is Israel's southernmost city...

Remove the extra comma. INDT (talk) 07:36, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

 Done Thank you. — LauritzT (talk) 12:07, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 April 2022

Change the current picture to File:Eilat-collage-2022.jpg DirtyPotatoEditor (talk) 00:43, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: I'm not sure wish picture you refer to. Also, depending on the prominence of the picture you'd like changed, it may require consensus. Cheers! —Sirdog (talk) 02:42, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 August 2022

Please remove the last sentence in the modern city part of the history section reading "It was formally granted to Israel in the 1949 Armistice Agreements.". The armistice agreements established armistice lines, it didn't grant any territory. Per the Rhodes armistice agreement between Egypt and israel, "The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary, and is delineated without prejudice to rights, claims and positions of either Party to the Armistice as regards ultimate "settlement of the Palestine question"." 71.178.3.227 (talk) 12:00, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit extended-protected}} template. MadGuy7023 (talk) 12:18, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Consensus on if 1949 Armistice Agreement established Armistice lines influence on Eilat

So, the article as it is now, makes an unsourced claim that the '49 AA "granted" Eilat to israel. To be blunt, this seems to be obviously false. This statement is unsourced. All evidence I've seen is that even the idea of this would violate the '49AA. As I understand it, the '49AA is an umbrella term for individual agreements between the various parties. As I understand it, none of them grant anyone any territory. They are Armistice agreements. They determine ceasefire lines. They are not treaties. I believe this particular one falls under the agreement between Egypt and israel. This would be the Rhodes Egypt-israel Armistice agreement. The text of this agreement clearly says it doesn't establish any political or territorial boundaries. Would anybody like to make any counter-arguments?71.178.3.227 (talk) 23:03, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

I've removed it. Unsourced since 2018. Onus is on those wishing to retain challenged material to provide citations. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 01:02, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

The story is more complex and it should be expanded on. Note that Eilat is close to both the Egyptian and Jordanian frontiers. The Israel-Egypt armistice was signed on February 14, Israel "took" Umm Rashrash on March 10, and the Israel-Transjordan armistice was signed on April 3. Since the Egypt-Israel armistice line had already been decided, the purpose of the March 10 action was to establish facts on the ground with respect to Transjordan. Zero^talk 04:53, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Neighborhoods section is gone?

Why not reinstate it? 89.138.140.81 (talk) 21:35, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Edit request in Early History

Just a simple edit for a Citation to be added for the citation needed tag with regards to mining operations in Timna Valley being the oldest on earth in the Early history section of the article.

Citation link: https://www.thetorah.com/article/edoms-copper-mines-in-timna-their-significance-in-the-10th-century

Direct reference: "Edom's Copper Mines in Timna: Their Significance in the 10th Century - TheTorah.com". www.thetorah.com. Retrieved 2023-01-14.

Thanks. Avast rumali (talk) 14:20, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Hey, I can't tell at a glance if thetorah.com is a reliable source. Have the bylined authors published this material in an academic journal or similar? If so, it would be better to cite that... Suriname0 (talk) 20:29, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Marking request as answered pending response from the original requester. I am marking this request as addressed; to re-open it, remove the "|A" in the {{request edit}} template above. Spencer^T•C 02:06, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Outdated Article

1. Population
The population data currently used is from the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics' (CBS) latest annual report in 2021. But the CBS also publishes monthly estimate reports with the last one being published in Feb. 2023, where Eilat's population was estimated to be 53,216.

https://www.cbs.gov.il/he/subjects/Pages/%D7%90%D7%95%D7%9B%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%A1%D7%99%D7%99%D7%94.aspx

2. Mayor
The article tells that the mayor of Eilat is Meir Yitzhak Halevi, who has served as mayor until June 2021. The current mayor is Eli Lankri, who has served since then (as acting mayor until getting elected in the August 2021 special election).

MasterFlisater (talk) 15:10, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Update

can you bring an updated climate chart? דולב חולב (talk) 06:51, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

What was Umm (el-)Rashrash?

Operation Uvda reached an abandoned former British police station made up of 5 adobe huts with a flag pole in front of one (the commander's, most certainly). So the common description goes. So no village.

However, Zochrot has 50 inhabitants for Umm el-Rashrash in 1948 (see here).

So what was there? If the 50 refers to the Mandate police squad as of Jan-May 48, it's clear. If it's Bedouin counted at the last census (none in 48), still not a village there. Even Aqaba was rather tiny at the time, so maybe it was just an old gathering point for Hajj pilgrims (google for popular etymology legend about old woman - 'umm' - treating their feet by strewing - 'rash' - herbs powder on them), or a spot fishermen bothered naming. Or maybe there had once been a village there, unlikely as it is for the area, who knows. That's the point: who knows? Arminden (talk) 17:49, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

It was a police post and the population would have included the families of the policemen. Since some of the police were local bedouin, it wouldn't take many families to get up to 50. I don't know of a very good source for population. Zero^talk 04:49, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. So no village, not in 48 once the British withdrew. Eilat started from scratch. All the area's history goes to Ailana/'Ayla/Aqabat 'Ayla/Aqaba + a few tells and the island, with some lesser findings at Eilat (Neolithic and Umayyad). Remains to clarify why some speak of Umm Rashrash as an Egyptian police station (see Donald Whitcomb here). Thabit Abu-Rass (1992) (here) only mentions the Turks stationing some soldiers there during the British-Ottoman border conflict of 1906, but his paper isn't concerned with the following years up to British occupation, 1906-1917, leaving open the possibility not of an Egyptian, but a Turkish garrison of some kind. Taba was Egyptian/British, Aqaba Ottoman, and the demarcation line agreed upon in 1906 started immediately west of Umm Rashrash. Sorry, no time now to dig any deeper re. Umm Rashrash in 1906-1917. Arminden (talk) 11:32, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

Used to be in Egypt?

I'm pretty sure this town used to be in Egypt? Isn't that funny, there's absolutely no mention of it in this article? Hmmmm Apeholder (talk) 16:51, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

It was never in Egypt. Zero^talk 01:52, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Unless you go back to Ibrahim Pasha, Mamluk Egypt or the Pharaohs - no. There was a discussion about it in the Egyptian parliament a few years ago, and they had to let go of it. Too many resurrections needed, even for a place like the Holy Land. RIP - Khedives, Baybars, Ramses & Co. Arminden (talk) 08:05, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 July 2024

Could someone move this recent addition to section above dealing with the Arab-Israeli conflict? It doesn't belong in section of "Future development plans", since it's not a "development plan" for the future, but a recent unfortunate event related to the conflict. Thanks.--Steven Homan (talk) 00:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

 Done Left guide (talk) 04:20, 22 July 2024 (UTC)