Talk:Nova Scotian Settlers

African Americans vs Black Loyalists

This article should concern itself with African American settlers, rather than dealing with Black Loyalists, who by self-definition were not Americans. There was a substantial group of African Americans who arrived in 1816, but otherwise they did not arrive in large numbers. Harrypotter (talk) 17:03, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

I have taken the liberty of giving this discussion a title. I heartily agree that the two subjects deserve different articles, wikilinked of course. The trouble is that this one, as it exists, deals mainly with those Black Loyalists who chose to go to West Africa, and the title is misleading. The article appears to have been renamed or moved (perhaps copied and pasted?), I suspect from an original with a more appropriate title. What would be the best solution? To research and write about the 1816 group, and place that here, and move most of the current content to a new article -- under what title? BrainyBabe (talk) 18:58, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

I wish the matter were so simple. Some time ago I put [Talk:Slavery_in_the_United_States#Slavery in North America?|this remark] which was completely ignored. I do not see the distinction between colonial America and slavery at that time and the development of the United States as either trivial or inevitable. Having recently read Simon Schama's Rough Crossings and indeed other material, I am struck at how the legal challenges to slavery in Britain fuelled the desire for independence amongst White Americans. Further as regards the Black Loyalists in general and the Sierra Leone settlers in particular, they stated very clearly that they were British - and that this should be accepted by the British government and more particularly the British Navy. We need to recognise the importance of this political identity. I have just checked the reference about African Americans coming to Sierra Leone. There were 38 who arrived on the Elizabeth, a ship captained by Paul Cuffee, a successful African American ship owner (Power Writers andthye Struggle Against Slavery, London, 2005). I don't know what more that can be said about them than that, and while it might make a good and important chapter in a bigger article about teh settlement of Sierra Leone by liberated formerly enslaved Africans, It would be good to have a better title for the page.Harrypotter (talk) 21:24, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the references. What is the way forward? This is one suggestion:

1. Move most of the content of this page: perhaps to Nova Scotian settlers (Sierra Leone)? And develop the new page accordingly.

2. Strip this down to just those African Americans you mention above.

Any opinions? BrainyBabe (talk) 08:45, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Option 1. Most of this content should be in an article entitled "Nova Scotian Settlers (Sierra Leone)". This group of people called themselves "Nova Scotians", not "African Americans", and almost all the historians who have studied this migration also use the term "The Nova Scotians". While they are an important branch of African-American culture, they sought a home and identity outside of America in order to find freedom.Letterofmarque (talk) 02:41, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

It seems as if the agreement reached here was never put into practise. What gives? --Kevlar (talk • contribs) 02:49, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

This article seems to have a problem with one user who keeps deleting any reference to "Black Loyalists". As noted above, the majority of the historiography on this subject sees The Nova Scotian settlers are part of the Black Loyalist migration. Other terms can certainly be used to describe the origins of this African population seeking their freedom but Black Loyalist shoudl not be edited out of the article, especially when it is referenced.Letterofmarque (talk) 17:44, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Gullah

Removed reference to Gullah not supported by reference.Harrypotter (talk) 21:23, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

This article seems confused or confusing,referring that all Nova Scotians were black or possible american,its misleading,what about the british that were in nova scotia at the this time,if nova scotia was a colony they were part of it,they were also nova scotian — Preceding unsigned comment added by Freakycookies (talk • contribs) 21:42, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Nova Scotian Settlers Misconceptions

Rough Crossings is popular history that does not truly reveal the scope of these peoples history.

I am a descendant of these Nova Scotian Settlers and I have conducted research on them in the National Archives of Nova Scotia, the United Kingdom, and United States. I have also read numerous secondary sources including Rough Crossings) which encompasses or deals specifically with their history

They did not refer to themselves as black loyalists. The group included at least one slave of a Loyalist who did not hold any 'Loyalist' sentiments and at least one slave who was taken from a Patriot plantation. Because individual blacks who became among the Settlers referred to themselves as such does not mean they were 'Black Loyalists' (a term and concept which in my opinion is somewhat absurd but that is beside the point).

These group of blacks called themselves the 'Settlers' and the 'Nova Scotians'. In Freetown, the area they lived in was known as Settler Town and was 'named from us' according to one Settler.

They were called the 'Nova Scotians' because they immigrated to Sierra Leone via Nova Scotia instead of coming directly from the United States. They more commonly called themselves the 'Settlers' and the area they lived in 'Settler Town'.

They were African Americans and I can provide numerous sources that they were indeed considered as such. Granville Sharp referred to them as 'American negroes'. They were said to be distinguishable by their 'American tone', they were referred to as 'American blacks' by one visitor, and when the French attacked them in 1794 they begged them for redress telling them that 'we was Americans from North America'.

Thomas Jefferson on at least two occasions referred to the Settlers as these 'fugitives' and 'negroes' from these 'States' and 'Southern States of our union'.

They were 'American' born but were not legal American citizens. That is they were cultural black Americans but were denied legal rights as citizens of the United States. There is a difference.

The Cuffe Settlers of 1816 actually settled among this group and by the 1830s were practically indistinguishable to a visitor in 1834.

--Wikiaddict6989 (talk) 15:08, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

This group of blacks also spoke an early form of African American Vernacular English and introduced American Southern colonial architecture in Freetown. According to one visitor Freetown said to resemble Washington D.C.

There are numerous examples where even the Sierra Leone Company referred to the Settlers 'Americanisms'.

It should be remembered the American at times referred to North America in general, but in some cases the Settlers were specifically linked with American Republicanism and Southern slavery that marked the newly formed United States.

If more information needs to be clarified or evidence provided I can assist further...

--Wikiaddict6989 (talk) 15:08, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I respect your family connections to the Nova Scotian settlers and your desire to explore the connections between the Sierra Leone settlers and and North America. However Wikipedia is about citing verifiable, authoritative sources. Some of your edits make statements that are not supported by the cited references. You should add verifiable, authoritative sources to support additional information. Virtually every referenced source for this article identifies the Nova Scotia settlers as being part of the Black Loyalist migration of escaped slaves who fled America from New York first to Nova Scotia and then to Sierra Leone. If you have a authoritative source that shows only a tiny number of the Nova Scotians were part of this group, please cite it. Simon Schama's book is a popular work that doesn't tell the complete story - no book ever does - but he is a highly respected international scholar who based his work on many other scholarly sources. I understand your opinion that you dislike the term Black Loyalists but Wikipedia is about facts not opinions and the fact is that virtually all the verifiable authoritative sources use this term which has a specific and identifiable meaning. I think we both agree with you that this group used the term Nova Scotians and Settlers to describe themselves. I don't see any cited evidence that they called themselves Americans - that seems to be by your examples what passing white observers called them or people like Thomas Jefferson who regarded them as merely fugitive slaves. In any case, surely the description African American and Black Loyalist can co-exist in this article as reflecting different ways of identifying this important movement of people in search of freedom.Letterofmarque (talk) 03:11, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

I only gave my own background information and view to ensure that I care quite a lot about the truthfulness witin this article and would not intentionally try and mislead the public or edit Wikpedia to suit my own personal views.

Actually despite my objections to the term Black Loyalist, this is not why I removed it. Although I do not believe in the term, I removed the reference to it witin the article as I don't believe there was a citation for the 'Black Loyalist' reference. When I last wrote in this Talk page I checked the source for the 'Black Loyalist' reference that had been recently included and saw it did make reference to this specific group as Loyalists. Because of this I did not remove the term in reference to this group again.

There is no doubt that Simon Schama is a highly reputable historian; but the sources I am referring to (which I said I could refer to you explicity) were cited in Schama's and by his own admission were used to write Rough Crossings. Earlier works by Ellen Gibson Wilson, James St. George Walker, Cassandra Pybus, Christopher Fyfe, and others were cited by Simon Schama within his work.

I might add that in Ellen Gibson Wilson's Loyal Blacks, James St. George Walker's Black Loyalists: The Search for the Promised Land (pg 182), Cassandra Pybus' Epic Journeys of Freedom, and in an article on the Settlers by Wallace Brown in Moving on: Black Loyalists in the Afro-Atlantic World edited by John Pulis) there is clear evidence cited that the Settlers begged the French sailors for items because they were 'Americans from North Ameriac. All four of those sources cite that this occurred during the French attack. Eli Achem, a Settler who was actually a free black and certainly a political black Loyalist from the Southern Colonies or States, made note of this in the Commissioners Enquiry into Sierra Leone of 1826 (or 1827).

--Wikiaddict6989 (talk) 18:06, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

History

highlight any five challenges faced by the early setters 41.223.132.239 (talk) 15:16, 8 October 2023 (UTC)