Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Robert, California

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Consensus seems pretty clear now. Thank you Uncle G. Drmies (talk) 15:37, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Roberts Landing, California (neé Robert, California)

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I have found no evidence that this settlement has ever existed, besides GNIS. We already deleted Brookshire, a similar former settlement within Alameda County. Even if this place did exist, it should not have an article if there is nothing to say about it. -Naddruf (talk) 04:07, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 05:50, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 05:50, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Rollidan (talk) 04:45, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom, assuming nobody else can find a source stating it existed. Highway 89 (talk) 05:13, 26 July 2019 (UTC) Striking since sources have been found. Highway 89 (talk) 02:29, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~ per WP:NOTDIRECTORY. There doesn't appear to be anything novel about this telephone-book-like listing of a non-existent place, except maybe as a placeholder name for when a real Robert, California will be built. StonyBrook (talk) 11:23, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It did exist, and this was one of its names, per ISBN 9780520266193 page 319. It was a place more usually called Robert's Landing, outside of San Leandro in the 19th century. It is why West San Lorenzo Station was originally named Roberts Station, and you can find this place under the name Robert's Landing in plenty of history books. Uncle G (talk) 13:28, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- All this begs the question why we have an article about Robert, when the historical place was named other things (Robert's Landing or Roberts). The only one of those that google maps recognizes is Robert's Landing, and it goes to San Leandro. Someone would need to dig up those history books and prove from them that Robert (x3) was an important place. Barring that, this article should be deleted and Robert's Landing, California be created as a redirect to San Leandro, along with some mention of it there, which it currently does not have. StonyBrook (talk) 14:39, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - Because the article creator here took it from the U.S. GNIS, and the GNIS data were submitted in 1996 by someone who could not read a map. The old GNIS entry (U.S. Geological Survey Geographic Names Information System: Robert) cites its source as a 1934 California DOT highways map. I looked at the 1935 Alameda county highways map, which one can find on the WWW, myself. The dot labelled ″Robert″ is in fact the railway station, the railway line going directly through it, with the old settlement of Robert's Landing labelled separately just next to it. Its GNIS entry is U.S. Geological Survey Geographic Names Information System: Robert's Landing. Your way of doing things is quite byzantine and unnecessarily complex. We can just rename and edit the article. No administrator involvement required. Well, apart from the administrator who is showing how to fix this without involving administrator tools in any way, that is. Uncle G (talk) 17:01, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Changing my vote. The nom of this article has led its renaming and improvement with sources to the point that it is unrecognizable from its former state. StonyBrook (talk) 07:53, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Brookshire is in fact on the same 1935 California DOT Alameda county highways map. It really did exist after all, it turns out. Uncle G (talk) 17:01, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- I see. If there is enough information to write an article about it, it could have an article. However I don't think there should be a page if it only lists the coordinates and elevation, without any local history. That brings up the question of whether we should have articles for all the former townships of Alameda County. Naddruf (talk) 19:49, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - The general presumption that populated places are notable is a shortcut for the true argument that each individual place is notable because it is covered in depth in multiple independent quality sources; on the grounds that populated places generally are. User:Uncle G/On notability#Notability is not a blanket. My personal approach to such a question would be to look to see whether there is a history book or other good source that documents in depth all of the former townships of Alameda County, which could be used as a source for such articles. To pick an example: Looking at just the first paragraph of its 15-page entry on Murray Township, Alameda County, California, I would say that The centennial year book of Alameda County, California at the Internet Archive supports at least a good stub on such a place. Uncle G (talk) 06:03, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Withdraw (comment by nominator): now that the name has been changed, it is clear that this settlement really did exist and it house a useful article. Naddruf (talk) 19:42, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Naddruf The nomination can be withdrawn only if users with delete also change their mind! --Mhhossein ^talk 18:58, 31 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Mhhossein: Looking at the users who commented delete, they both said that it should only be deleted if no info can be found about the article. This isn't true anymore. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Naddruf (talk • contribs) 00:06, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – @Mhhossein: Actually, a nominator can withdraw at any time, but when outstanding delete !votes are present, the discussion cannot be closed with a speedy keep result. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 05:49, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The 1910 explosion blew out the windows in the San Leandro School, 2 miles away. That alone made the location notable: it was written about. But I think the title is over-apostrophized. Aymatth2 (talk) 20:52, 1 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- @Aymatth2: If you would like to add that into the article, go ahead. It's not there yet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Naddruf (talk • contribs) 00:04, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - I moved it to Roberts Landing, California, sans apostrophe. It is not the landing of Robert, or the landing of Roberts, but the landing named after Roberts. I will add some stuff on the Trojan years. Aymatth2 (talk) 23:56, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 05:51, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Northamerica1000: Hey look! All the delete comments are gone! Naddruf (talk) 19:23, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.