Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/BirgitteSB

The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a successful request for adminship. Please do not modify it.

BirgitteSB

Final (124/14/12); Closed as successful by WjBscribe at 04:07, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

BirgitteSB (talk · contribs) - I am pleased to nominating BirgitteSB for adminship because the user has my trust and trust of the community is the number one criteria for adminship in my book. A contributer since July 2005 with edits in multiple areas of Wikipedia, not a lot of volume but a lot of quality. I first encountered this editor on the project Wikipedia:Unreferenced articles almost a year ago and was impressed with their devotion to and knowledge of the Wikiprocess. I would like to invite the community to support this editor who has been an active and regular Wikipedia contributor for years, is familiar with and respects Wikipedia policy. Jeepday (talk) 01:36, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Co-nominated by TimVickers - I have been impressed for several years by Birgitte's calmness and good sense, so I'm glad she has finally acquiesced to being nominated as an administrator. I'd particularly recommend people read this section of her userpage and her excellent peer-reviews of bacteria and evolution. Tim Vickers (talk) 01:49, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here:

I accept.--BirgitteSB 03:32, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Questions for the candidate

Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve Wikipedia as an administrator. It is recommended that you answer these optional questions to provide guidance for participants:

1. What admin work do you intend to take part in?

A: I honestly don't intend to be very active as an admin here, as this is a secondary wiki to me. Even though there has been times I would used admin abilities in the past, including the past week, it has been more in regard to situations have I stumbled upon rather than my planning to do focus on "admin work".--BirgitteSB 03:30, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

copied from below:I honestly expect to review deleted pages reasonably often in my backlog work. There were two pages last week I came across that had tags six months older than the earliest edit which I would have like to review. The fact the one of these articles didn't get the attention I expected when I posted a review request at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive134#Antam Sanskar is why I accepted the nomination this time when I have declined in the past.--BirgitteSB 22:26, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

2. What are your best contributions to Wikipedia, and why?

A: I mostly do gnomish work to articles. I also try to keep backlog information updated and pick out instances where I think broader attention can bring big results for listing on the Community Noticeboard. However, I think I am proudest of contributions that have been in talk space. The proud of the change in what was done about non-latin usernames that I promoted. Although sometimes frustration got the best of me during that time and I am not proud of every edit I made regarding the issue. I am proud of sticking with the issue for so long and following up on it until it was fully implemented. Overall, in fits and starts, it was several months of reasserting the issue and following-up throughout many different pages to see the practice changed. As far as actual edits I am particularly proud of, I would have to say they are the apologies I have needed to make. Both because of they are particularly hard to write and because of the gracious replies and understanding that follow them which always renews my belief in this project.--BirgitteSB 03:30, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or have other users caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?

A:Definitely. Mostly I try not to edit while stressed out, but there have been lapses over the years! When it comes to specific disputes, my philosophy is that it isn't about winning against any opponent but rather about making progress on the issue. If it is impossible to make progress; I make my opinion clear, stress what it is based on and then leave it. Sometimes no matter how correct you may be about something the timing or the participants are just not going work out. I have discovered that six-months can sometimes be the difference between beating your head against a brick wall and finding complete agreement.--BirgitteSB 03:30, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Optional Questions from Balloonman

4. Can you summarize the NOR issue that you were involved with for people who are unfamiliar with it (or don't have the patience to read the whole issue? What are your thoughts about the process and the outcome?

Issue:Although there have been others, I imagine you are referring to the primary/secondary issue. The written policy has had simplistic explanations of what constitutes primary and secondary sources. And in the past has stated a preference for using secondary sources and advised against the heavy use of primary sources. There are a few problems with this. For one different areas of scholarship define these sources differently. So someone with a science background would recognize a text as a secondary source while historian might know it to be a primary source and vice versa. Another issue is the fact that the written policy speaks as though a text is inherently a primary source or a secondary source. As if you could stamp it "Secondary Source", and that determination would always be correct. Even using the way Wikipedia intends to define them, the same exact text, or even same passage, can be used as either a primary or secondary source depending on the context. Alot of it has to do with perspective. Twenty years from now every source Wikipedia is now using to cover the 2008 US presidential election will considered primary. Anything written about this sunject right now is simply to close to the event to have enough perspective to be used as secondary source by then. However a newspaper investigation about Obama's relationship with his church is still more secondary than a speech by Obama on the subject.

Process: I think the process of altering policy pages is broken and that the recent issue was one of a long line of examples to prove that. I can show you similar problems with editing that page from 2005. It nothing new, but it still a sad thing. People who have long watched the page have seen so many problems over the years that their patience has been worn away. Editors new to policy areas do not know that the process is broken, and their attempts to edit like they would anywhere else on Wikipedia are often disastrous. One real attempt to fix the process was Wikipedia:Attribution which would have been a fresh start as well as eliminated issues with one policy changing to contradict closely related policies. (Note: WP:ATT was not intended as an attempt to fix policy) No one person can be blamed for the broken process here, even those who clearly been problems during one attempt at editing played a very helpful role during other attempts. However most people don't realize this scale.

Outcome: The current wording: Appropriate sourcing can be a complicated issue, and these are general rules. Deciding whether primary or secondary sources are more suitable on any given occasion is a matter of common sense and good editorial judgment, and should be discussed on article talk pages. I find this to be an improvement over the older advice. Regarding the explanations of primary/secondary, I think few people who have looked into the issue are really happy with the current wording. However a changing it not only requires a better explanation to exist, but for the new explanation to be so much of an improvement that a broad group think it is worth dealing with the broken process of editing a policy page. That bar hasn't been reached yet, but it I beleive it to be just a matter of time.

5. In dealing with unreferenced articles, what article are you most proud of sourcing? Why?

The article I most proud of sourcing didn't come from working with unreferenced articles, but from a user who came to the talk page of Wikipedia:Verifiabilty asking for help. Another editor was planning of removing a large amount of sourced material from Marcel Lefebvre, because when it had been originally referenced no pages numbers were given. He was going to remove the material lacking the more recent standard of citations. I couldn't convince him that this was as inapporiate as I believe it to be despite an RfC. I found the path of least resistance was to visit a local University and find the page numbers myself. This was an uncommon book but the University is Jesuit so they have considerable material on Catholic subjects. Unfortuanately when I got to the library I found the biography they had was in the original French. Luckily, I am reasonable with written French and it helped that I knew what I was looking for. In the end I was able to source the page numbers for nearly evrything threatened with removal.--BirgitteSB 17:54, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

6. In the discussion below you indicated a need to for the tools to review deleted documents for your backlog work. Could you explain what your backlog work is? And how would being able to review deleted articles facilitate your contributions to wikipedia?

I work on backlogs where the tags were placed on the article over a year ago. One the reasons I started doing this work not so much to fix the below-average article but to find real problems that have slipped through the cracks. Some people may read an article and think is BS But rather than take the time to investigate if it is true, they will tag it with {{unreferenced}} and hope someone else checks it out. A lot of articles which are far from our MOS (especially short bullets points) turn out to be copyvios. I want find the big problems that have been missed for a long period of time. The age factor means the category has a much higher ratio of inactionable tags than if you randomly examined articles with that tag. So first I try and cull the category. Alot of times whoever originally tagged the article didn't watchlist it, and some people are timid about removing a tag regarding their own work. So with {{unreferenced}}, if references now exist on the article I would remove it or replace it with another tag like {{primarysources}}. Regarding {{clean-up}}, I look at the history to see the state of the article when the tag was placed and if there is significant improvement I remove it. Sometimes there are articles which have been created fully-formed much more recently than the date on the tag. In those cases I would definitely like to look at the deleted edits and figure what happened and if it is a problem or not (at the least there is likely GFDL issues). After the category is culled then it is easier to see what actually need attention and work on them. A lot of times I will try and get a category down under 50 and put it on the Community Noticeboard to try and bring more people into the backlogs. I've experimented with the notices and people ignore larger categories so it important to either find smallish ones or make them smallish. I also try to keep Category:Wikipedia backlog updated and watch for empty categories to tag for speedy deletion.--BirgitteSB 23:56, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Optional questions from jayvdb

7. As a wikiso(u)rceress, you have a lot of exposure to copyright violations on Wikisource. As you know, Wikipedia has these problems too, and they are often dealt with here at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images and Wikipedia:Copyright problems. If you see a copyright violation, and the Wikipedian claims to have permission from the copyright holder, or is the copyright holder, how would you deal with it? John Vandenberg (talk) 22:34, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

First I would check to see if they have a good claim to all the copyrights (i.e. any underlying copyrights on a derivative work). Then I would make certain they understand the difference between "permission to copy" and a "release of copyrights under a free license (or PD)". If it was really the latter I would have them email a confirmation of the release to the "permissions" email address and follow with someone I know to have an OTRS account.--BirgitteSB 23:36, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Optional question from Dorftrottel

Ok, here's something in spite of the fact that I already support you and the whole thing appears to be going your way. These are obviously totally optional, but I've always felt that because most people don't really know the candidates and because RfA should be about more than just edit count and possible deal-breakers (i.e. the usual shit), you can never ask personal enough questions. Not private mind everyone, but personal. So I decided to confront you with a modified version of a question I asked several candidates a while back. Dorftrottel (complain) 10:16, April 1, 2008

8.a Could you name two or three non-featured articles that surprised you and caught your interest and kept you reading, and ideally made you follow internal links into a direction you had never thought about learning more about before? What particularly do you appreciate about those articles?

8.b Please name you favourite policy, where favourite does not necessarily mean "most important" etc.

Optional Questions from Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles

9. All of the following accounts were blocked as socks or puppet masters: fAndalusianNaugahyde, AshbyJnr, Blueanode, Brandon97, Burntsauce, Casperonline, Dannycali, Davenbelle, Diyarbakir, D73733C8-CC80-11D0-B225-00C04FB6C2F5, Eyrian, Gazpacho, Golfcam, IPSOS, Jack Merridew, JohnEMcClure, LAZY 1L, Moby Dick, Mrs random, Note to Cool Cat, 75.5.225.151, SolidPlaid, Varlak, and Yeshivish. As the block logs indicate, these accounts used sockpuppetry and harassment of editors in order to get over two hundred popular culture related articles deleted from Wikipedia, including those indicated in this list that one of the banned accounts wrote. Even if you personally want those articles deleted, do the ends justify the means? What if anything could or should be done to reverse what they did and to send a message that sockpuppetry and harassment will not succeed on Wikipedia?

Optional answer by Keegan

Montaigne wrote a magnificent essay entitled, "That Men by Various Ways Arrive at the Same End". This is the feeling I get from a question like this. Hindsight is 20/20, and if you look through that deletion list you'll see that there was not much sock participation. Assuming Good Faith means taking things at face value if the contribution is seemingly honest and genuine, which most of those are. Socks, and their damage, are discovered far after times of XfD closings. I fail to see an appropriate way to answer this question. Keegan^talk 06:02, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

This was an appropriate answer. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles^Tally-ho! 16:04, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Optional question from Animum

10. Boxers or briefs?

A:

General comments

• See BirgitteSB's edit summary usage with mathbot's tool. For the edit count, see the talk page.

• Links for BirgitteSB: BirgitteSB (talk · contribs · deleted · count · AfD · logs · block log · lu · rfar · spi)

Registered alternate account

• See BirgitteSB-prod's edit summary usage with mathbot's tool. For the edit count, see the talk page.
• Links for BirgitteSB: BirgitteSB-prod (talk · contribs · deleted · count · AfD · logs · block log · lu · rfar · spi)

---

Please keep discussion constructive and civil. If you are unfamiliar with the nominee, please thoroughly review Special:Contributions/BirgitteSB before commenting.

Discussion

• A lot has been made of Birgitte's answer to Q1, while I think it could have been done better, I do think that we should remember that use of the tools is not the ultimate criteria. I believe that I am a decent admin that people (as a whole) trust and respect. I've been an admin for about 8 months now. During those 8 months, I've blocked 23 people (all vandals--and one mistake (tagged the wrong person--sorry Equazcion)), deleted 33 pages, and protected 5 pages. I am by far and away not the most active admins when it comes to use of the tools, but I do think my being an admin has been a net positive over the past 8 months. Having reviewed Birgitte's contributions to the project, I think her being an admin would be a net boon for wikipedia---even if she rarely uses the tools! Being an admin is not about the tools... in fact, if that is what you think being an admin is about, then you have it all wrong!Balloonman (talk) 05:42, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

  The opposes per Q1 are a text book example of one of the arguments to avoid in such discussions: Wikipedia:AAAD#Doesn't need the tools. It's just an essay, but I'd be curious to see a logical counterargument to this pretty well-respected community standard. --JayHenry (talk) 05:54, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

  For the record, I have no problem with the answer to Q1, but one logical reason I can think of is that someone who is not active in admin work might not remember the correct way to use the tools the next time they're picked up. (FWIW, that can easily be counteracted by reading instructions each time they're used.) --Fabrictramp (talk) 14:56, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

  I quite agree. Since I only occasionally close AfDs, I can never remember off the top of my head what the correct closing procedure is with the various AfD templates, but that's what the instructions are for. Tim Vickers (talk) 16:39, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

  I would also point out that I am quite experienced at using the tools. I didn't even have think twice about the history merge I did yesterday (which is something I had to be walked through the first three times), for example. I will be using admin tools regularly, even if not on this wiki. On my primary wiki, adminstrators have the tools removed if they are inactive for six months. I would not have accepted if I thought I would be inactive by that standard. I honestly expect to review deleted pages reasonably often in my backlog work. There were two pages last week I came across that had tags six months older than the earliest edit which I would have like to review. I can't promise how often I will use a loggable tool (I do ocassionaly see deletable prods in the backlogs), but I can promise I will ask for advice if a tool is completely new to me and otherwise I will always review local instructions just because it easy to get mixed up about differences in policy between wikis.--BirgitteSB 17:05, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

  Birgitte, this is something you should add to question 1---while you may not use the tools in the traditional manner, if admin buttons could help you fill your niche better, then you should highlight that fact. If there is a reason to be able to review deleted materials, and you see that reason, share it above---one of the big reasons why people oppose per your Q1 is because you don't demonstrate a need. You just indicated a need---it's not the traditional need that people generally anticipate---but it's a need nonetheless!Balloonman (talk) 22:18, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

  There has been a few minor mentions that this is not BirgitteSB's primary wiki, but I dont see any details so I would like to fill in the blanks. BirgitteSB is our second 'crat on Wikisource, which is the 26th largest Wikimedia project, where she is one of the top ten contributors to the project, both in quantity and quality. In short, she is very experienced in how to administrate a wiki project with tender loving care. I am also more active on Wikisource, however I find plenty of reasons to make use of my tools here. John Vandenberg (talk) 20:59, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Birgitte... You're a crat on a wikipedia sister project! This is another key piece of information that should have gone into your questions above! While, being an admin/crat on other systems doesn't confirm the same priviledges here, it does show trust and experience in a related capacity. I mean, we're talking about being a crat on a sister project (not some unrelated system like AOL.)Balloonman (talk) 22:04, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure why we're throwing stones at Birgitte for not including all of that info. If people are so lazy that they (and I quote) "stopped reading this RfA after reading the answer to question #1", well there isn't much anyone can do. Even if the RfA were to end with only 50% support but with the sole argument for opposition being "no need for the tools" (which is pretty much the situation here), the wise bureaucrat would promote the candidate anyways. Besides, I'm sure that if anyone had the patience to contact the editors who opposed on these grounds early on, they'd change their mind given the many solid arguments presented by the supporters. (which is what happened in the DrKiernan RfA). Pascal.Tesson (talk) 00:47, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Pascal, I think if you looked at my comments, I'm not throwing stone... I've probably been her biggest supporters during this RfA! I added this point here to highlight the fact that she's a crat on our sister project.Balloonman (talk) 01:24, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I'm fully aware you were supporting her and I meant no disrespect. I'm just pointing out that although it would have been a smoother RfA had she carefully detailed her experience, the fact remains that it's not her fault if people are too lazy to ask. Pascal.Tesson (talk) 02:38, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

• People who are opposing because of low mainspace contributions, not enough policy discussion, not the primary wiki, etc... those folk might want to review this RfA Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Herbythyme... another somewhat unconventional candidate. The more crosswiki admins we have, the better it is for all wikis, in my view. Cross-pollination of ideas and practices makes everyone better off. ++Lar: t/c 20:12, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Support

1. Support Dlohcierekim 04:05, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

   Expanded rationale- meets User:Dlohcierekim/On RfA. Agree with Dorftottel and Ral. Opposition concerns aside, this would be a net positive. Dlohcierekim 14:35, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

   I see no validity in the "does not need the tools argument." In fact, I believe it is an argument to be avoided. In Q1 the candidate says they will use the tools infrequently. That is not a reason to not let them use them at all. Dlohcierekim 20:06, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

2. Support I think this user will do good with the tools. Nice answers too.--RyRy5 talk 04:34, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
3. Support Every trusted helping hand is a hand. BrigitteSB has been a solid contributor on more than one Wikimedia project for several years. Please don't oppose because the user doesn't desire to be aggressive. Keegan^talk 04:44, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
4. Support, as a nominator. Tim Vickers (talk) 05:06, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
5. Why the hell not? Opposing someone because they won't be as active as other administrators is absurd; it's not like there's a limit on the number of administrators we can have. Ral315 (talk) 05:10, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

   Ral, I think what's getting to the opposers (and I don't really like speaking for all of them) is not just that the candidate won't be as active as other administrators, but the answer is lackadaisical and indifferent sounding. Wisdom89 _{(T / ^C)} 16:24, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

   I'll grant that your oppose is probably based on those grounds (which are substantially more valid), but most of the opposition, based on their own words, is predicated on a perceived "lack of need" for adminship, not the tone of the comment. I have never seen, and really cannot see, the reasoning for denying a trusted user adminship merely because they will not be as active as other administrators. Ral315 (talk) 17:05, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

6. Support Q1 is of definate concern, but the issue is not how active will a person be, but do we trust her with the tools? Not every admin is as involved as some (I know there are admins who block more people in a week than I have since i became an admin.) Do I trust her? Yes... I say that having reviewed her edits/talk page and based upon the quality of people who nominated her. Does she meet my criteria for admin? Not really. I personally like to see more edits and article building, but I also like to see people promoted who fill unusual niches. Birgitte fills a niche that most of us don't bother with and don't care about. She is very active in finding sources for unsourced articles. She is also active in discussions on many different subjects---including but not limited to a very contentious debate concerning OR. Will she be our garden variety admin? No, but I think having an admin who frequents unusual spots (the places most of us don't go) can be beneficial. Also finding sources for the unsual is article building, just via a different venueBalloonman (talk) 05:11, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
7. Per Ral315. The current opposes based on planned activity are, as Ral notes, absurd and this is an otherwise good candidate with an extremely lenghty track record of thoughtful participation. --JayHenry (talk) 05:17, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
8. Support Agree strongly with Balloonman's sentiments above. Dean B (talk) 05:53, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
9. Support It's good that she isn't going to let the tools distract her from her more important work. Epbr123 (talk) 08:52, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
10. Strong support. Dorftrottel (warn) 09:24, March 27, 2008

    I for one think the answer to question 1 is perfectly fine. Dorftrottel (criticise) 11:49, March 27, 2008

11. Support, no reason to believe that this user would abuse the tools. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 10:40, 27 March 2008 (UTC).
12. Support - She seems to know what she's doing, she's civil and helpful in dealing with other editors, and she does a lot of good work around the 'pedia. As someone far smarter than I once said, the tools don't rust if they're not used, and it's not like we have only a limited quantity to give out anyway. --jonny-mt 10:57, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
13. Support - trustworthy editor. PhilKnight (talk) 10:58, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
14. Support. For me, the only legitimate reason to oppose giving someone the tools is fear that he'd misuse them. I have yet to find a reason to believe that this user would misuse or abuse the tools. Rami R 11:08, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
15. Per JayHenry, although absurd is perhaps rather weak. Any time I've come across BirgitteSB she's been doing good work without any drama. Angus McLellan (Talk) 11:09, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
16. Support It's all just about trust, isn't it? And do we sack admins who aren't terribly active?--Habashia (talk) 12:52, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
17. Support No problems here. --Siva1979^{Talk to me} 13:02, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
18. Support. Good candidate. Agree with Angus above that many of the opposes are absurd. RyanGerbil10(Kick 'em in the Dishpan!) 13:03, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
19. Support Certainly. Qualified and trusted users should be given the tools, regardless of whether they intend to become active in administrative areas or not. --PeaceNT (talk) 13:17, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
20. Support. I see no red flags. Qualified editor. Knows Wikipedia. Kingturtle (talk) 13:47, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
21. Support, excellent trustworthy editor and content contributor, I'm reassured by answer 1 and unconvinced by the worn-out logic of the opposes. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:45, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
22. Support - So a user gets opposed for not being as active? I thought RfA was about if we can trust this user, which I can, at least. Soxred93 | talk bot 14:48, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
23. Support - for me the frequency with which the tools will be used is of minor importance so long as I am happy that when they are used it will be wisely. Which I am. nancy ^(talk) 14:50, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
24. Support per answer to question 1. Also, a very civil user who will not abuse the tools even if they are not used much. Thingg^⊕⊗ 14:59, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
25. Support -- Meets my standards; I have no concerns; gnomes don't need to be here a lot. Bearian (talk) 15:07, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
26. Support—Who wants another drone-mop? I'm quite happy with the response to Question 1; the applicant is a good member of the community and performs valuable tasks. That's enough for me. Tony (talk) 15:24, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
27. Support per answer to Q1. I will always respect an honest answer. The tools are free, they don't age, they don't rust. (as Pedro has stated before). You won't abuse them or misuse them. You've been here too long and I trust that you will proceed with the same care and cautiion that you have as an editor. What else is there to consider? If you use the tools at the rate of once per year, fine by me! It's one less good standing editor that needs to ask for admin action when he/she needs it and can do it his/her self uncontroversially, and trusted by the community to do as much. Happy to support, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 15:42, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
28. I strongly support this nomination, and am also reminded of Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/DrKiernan: being active occasionally and using the tools only once a week (or a month) is perfectly acceptable. Regarding question 1, if BirgitteSB had answered with the "standard RfA answer" with something like "I intend to take part in AIV to block vandals, in CSD to delete pages that meet the WP:CSD criteria, and RFPP to protect pages that need protecting. I also plan to close XFDs when the discussions are finished." instead of being honest like she has been with her answer, she wouldn't have the opposition she has now, and that's a shame really. I would much, much rather prefer an honest admin who uses the tools sparingly but effectively than one who uses them often and abusively. After all, people do have something called real lives, and nobody has said why BirgitteSB would abuse or misuse the tools at all, and "need" for the tools is irrelevant: there is no limit on the amount of mops available, and if someone will put the tools to good use, why deny them adminship? BirgitteSB is a great candidate. Acalamari 16:03, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

    See my response to Ral up above just for clarification, at least my own really. Wisdom89 _{(T / ^C)} 16:25, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

    Acalamari: I'm always happy to know people remember DrKiernan-gate (I naively thought at the time that the "no need for the tools" argument had been debunked once and for all. Silly me.) By the way, despite DrKiernan's best assurances that he would barely use the tools if at all, it seems he was blatantly lying to us all. He has deleted over a thousand pages and imposed around a hundred blocks, as well as the occasional protection. Raise your hand if you think his promotion was a stupid mistake. Pascal.Tesson (talk) 04:07, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

    I believe the promotion of DrKiernan was a great decision, and think the same will happen here. Acalamari 15:39, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

29. Support, I don't see any reason not to. Hemmingsen 16:23, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
30. Support; not using the tools much isn't a reason to deny all uses. Responsible editor, and no hint of probable misuse. — Coren ^(talk) 17:12, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
31. Support for the honesty in answering Q1. No other concerns. Acalamari makes excellent points, really. I would strongly urge the Opposers below to reconsider their comments. Nick (talk) 17:19, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
32. Support Remember instances when I thought she was particularly sensible though I do not remember the context. And a quick review does not show anything worrying. But I see that people still want to oppose for not "needing" tools. Demanding a minimum work limit or activity from volunteers... that's rich.. :D - TwoOars 18:08, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

    "I see that people still want to oppose for not "needing" tools." — You hopeless optimist. I'd say they just want to oppose and pick or pick up any available or conceivable reason. It just so happens to be "no need" in this particular case. Dorftrottel (talk) 22:47, March 27, 2008

33. Support- The oppose concerns are outweighed by the good work this user has (and will) do. Good luck...--Cameron (t/c) 19:20, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
34. Support. User can be trusted with the tools. Whether or not she uses them is irrelevant. "Inactive" administrators do not harm Wikipedia. Tan | 39 19:23, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
35. Support - Nothing to make me believe that Brigette will misuse the tools. My measurement is "misuse", not "fail-to-use". Sure, it'd be great to have admins who are hyper-active, but Brigette will probably be with us for the long run, and what's the danger in giving her the tools? - Philippe | Talk 19:33, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
36. Support - clearly trustworthy, will be a net positive for the 'pedia. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:43, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
37. 100% Rock Solid Support. I have complete confidence that this editor will use the tools to benefit the project. She is on my list of users that I would ask a question if I need an opinion about a difficult issue. I find her comments in discussions to be extremely well reasoned, even if I do not completely agree with her. FloNight♥♥♥ 20:13, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
38. (ec)Support — "lackadaisical and indifferent sounding"? That's the ticket. I find this wise, and looking at the candidate, I would be of the understanding that she won't misuse the tools, given her experience — and obviously she can't, if she does not decide to use them. Some the opposers really ought to chill out. BirgitteSB will be a fine admin. Regards, EJF (talk) 20:19, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
39. Support. By all accounts a thoughtful and experienced user; while I don't know her personally, no-one seems to be saying they don't trust her and many are saying they do. Not all of our mopsters need to zealously run around with the mop all the time. We need more reasonable people who have a mop available when they come across a situation when needed. Martinp (talk) 21:01, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
40. Weak support after reviewing alternate account contribs. I would really, really like to see more activity in the deletion or anti-vandal areas, but I'm not finding anything to make me believe there will be problems.--Fabrictramp (talk) 21:08, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
41. Support I've been very impressed by Birgitte, and I think she would make an excellent admin. I think she has just the right temperament for the job, and a broad set of skills and knowledge. Willow (talk) 22:11, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
42. Support per WP:AGF. --Aqwis (talk – contributions) 22:45, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
43. Support. The only questions that matter to me in considering an RfA are: "Is this person here to build an encyclopedia?" and "Can we trust this person with administrative tools?" The answer to both is a resounding "yes" for this editor. --Laser brain (talk) 23:11, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
44. Support This is an obviously qualified candidate, and the community can only benefit from giving her the tools. Question 1 is hardly a worry for me, as "no need for tools" has been debunked time and time again; I'm quite disappointed in the members of our community who have opposed over this. Further, now that Birgitte has updated her Q1 answer to clarify exactly how she will use the tools with her backlog work, I'm even more sure that giving her the mop will be an overwhelming positive. GlassCobra 23:59, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
45. Strong Support. Most definitely. I agree with GlassCobra in saying that "no need for the tools" is a ridiculous reason to oppose. I would like to say that Birgitte will "Do no harm" and will have a positive, rather than negative effect on Wikipedia because of the +sysop flag. Best of luck to you Birgitte, Malinaccier (talk) 01:26, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
46. Support I'm puzzled by all the hoopla surrounding her answer to Q1, especially coming from administrators. Sure, admins clear backlogs and while there are a few workhorses out there, the fact is many admin accounts do relatively little as far as closing XfDs, speedy deleting stuff, working at AIV. Yet, even when we are not working specifically on admin backlogs, we still routinely use the tools simply to be better editors. Access to deleted revisions can be extremely informative when trying to understand an editorial conflict. Access to deleted contributions often allows one to realize that editor X with 3 harmless junk edits has in fact created 10 hoax articles and needs to be blocked. There's this myth going around that being an admin is a mysterious super-complex endeavour which requires years of studying policy and understanding its finer points. It's not, especially if you're a responsible person unlikely to start using these tools in areas you're not familiar with. From what I can see, BigitteSB has shown a sense of responsibility and has shown dedication to wiki-projects. The net-effect of her adminship can only be positive. Pascal.Tesson (talk) 01:33, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

    Amen. Keegan^talk 02:17, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

    Indeed. Well said. Dlohcierekim 02:34, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

47. Support. In general I like to see more article writing and I will argue to the end why that is important. But what a few in the oppose camp didn't look into closely enough is the type of experience that this user has that more than fulfills the spirit of why article writing is important. Article writing isn't just important for an admin for the sake of it, it's important so that a user understands what kind of struggles go into deciding what content should be kept and not, and how our policies (content and behavioral) interact with that. BirgitteSB has very clearly demonstrated those understandings in important ways beyond what most well qualified admins do through the types of experiences she has, particularly the example of working with unsourced articles and going and sourcing them by hand after working on an RfC related to the article content. Furthermore this user is so trustworthy that the doesn't need the tools argument is moot and doesn't sway me at all anyway considering that she has demonstrated some important use for the tools, and some is better than none. The tools are not limited folks we can give them to everyone that won't misuse them and I argue we should. - Taxman ^Talk 03:19, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
48. Birgitte is a good person who would do good things with the bit, as much or as little as she can do. The point of a wiki is that every little bit counts :) She'll be just fine. ~ Riana ⁂ 04:10, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
49. Support, strong candidate. Christopher Parham (talk) 04:48, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
50. Support - don't see there being any problems. Guest9999 (talk) 05:36, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
51. Support, fine answers. MrPrada (talk) 06:54, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
52. Support will be a good sysop. abf /talk to me/ 08:24, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
53. You seem to be sane, and, you're a sysop/crat on another WMF project^[1]. You've been around for a bit^[2][3]. Ordinarily, I'd like to see more edits to AIV, to see how you'd be with the block button. Rather than look for one or two instances where you've made a mistake, your Deleted contribs show plenty of good CSD taggings, and prods. You appear to be smart and civil. Overall, I don't see a reason why I wouldn't trust you to use the tools in a responsible manner if or if not you decide to use them. BTW, the templates above in the RfA, why do they link to User:BirgitteSB-prod? SQL^{Query me!} 09:21, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

    She has two accounts, there are templates for both of them. Tim Vickers (talk) 15:39, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

    Oh, I see, thanks! :) I only scrolled up far enough to see the bottom one, it seems. SQL^{Query me!} 05:11, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

54. Support After reviewing the opposers here and the candidates work. Even if the candidate uses the tools just once every six months that's not a reason not to have them. Per Keeper (i.e. per me!) they don't rust and we don't have a limited ammount to give out. I appreciate the candidate could have made a "better job" of Q1 but the excellent contribution history gives me confidence. On balance; no harm + potential good = a net positive to the encyclopedia. Best Wishes. Pedro :  Chat  11:14, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
55. Support Unlike many to-be-admins, good thing about supporting this candidate is that we know how she will handle things once she gets the tools. No guess work required. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 12:06, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
56. Outstanding candidate, has knowldege of the tools from wikiquote (who I've come across a lot when I've been retrieving quotes for portals). An extremely friendly user, rather baseless opposes (especially ones regarding the answer to answer one), clueful–just everything that is needed in an administrator is displayed in Birgitte. Rudget. 12:12, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
57. Support Per Q1. Honesty is not a virtue to be taken lightly. J.delanoy^gabs_adds 15:06, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
58. Sure. Trustworthy enough, and if she feels like she could use the tools, why not? - Bobet 15:08, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
59. -- Naerii 16:09, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
60. Support as a response to unconvincing opposes. If an editor is trusted to use the tools, it does not matter that s/he will only use them on an infrequent basis. There's no upper limit on the number of admins, so promoting less active editors to adminship does no inherent harm. As long as the candidate is trustworthy enough - which it appears that she is, per comments of others above (who have reviewed the candidate more thoroughly than I have) - then I have no problem with promotion. Walton^One 16:56, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
61. Support. Don't Feed the Zords (talk) 17:41, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
62. Why the hell not? per Ral315. The point is that they can be trusted, not whether they are going to be a supercharged admin devoting their life to wikipedia or not. Her answer to Q1 was perfect because it was honest and not laced with a bunch of stuff just to get you vote for her. —MJCdetroit ^(yak) 18:43, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
63. Support. Meets my standards. --CWY2190^TC 19:13, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
64. Support See nothing to suggest candidate will abuse the tools. Does not matter how many times candidate is going to use the tools. Davewild (talk) 19:14, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
65. Support with pleasure. SlimVirgin ^talk|edits 19:19, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
66. Support Adminship is no big deal. If the candidate is trustworthy and experienced, that's all that matters. Honestly people, first we crucify TenPoundHammer for be too eager, then we deny Birgitte for not being eager enough! It's absurd. Not being desperate for the tools is an asset, it'll provide time to ease in to it. VanTucky 20:38, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

    I don't think they are really comparable. There were a lot of other concerns that were brought up in TenPoundHammer's recent RfA that weren't related to overeagerness. Spebi (talk) 20:52, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

67. Strong support, Giving the tools to experienced and trusted users like BirgitteSB allows problems to be dealt with calmly before they reach the noticeboards, which in turn allows new users to be coached rather than pounced on. John Vandenberg (talk) 20:59, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
68. Support, I've found BirgitteSB to be a very level-headed, intelligent editor and someone who I think will wield the mop wisely, even if sparingly. Dreadstar † 21:43, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
69. Support from all evidence, she'll do very well. Knows WP policy well enough that I see no reason to be concerned. DGG (talk) 22:31, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
70. Hell yes. Someone I trust immensely all over Wikimedia, combined with supports of Sandy and Tony (you don't see them here except for the very best) means this is a very strong support. dihydrogen monoxide (H₂O) 22:47, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
71. Trustworthy. Also, I agree with Dlohcierekim, that infrequency of expected use is not a valid criterion for objection. Having surplus admins would be very useful. For example, if Wikipedia were to experience a crisis, her infrequently active admins may come to her rescue. Trustworthy admins, regardless of activity level, are a potentially incredible resource, and present us with a net benefit. The "all or nothing" reasoning of opposers is irrational, and is at the top of the list of cognitive distortions from the field of cognitive psychology. CDs are so prevalent in opposers' reasons, that perhaps they are prime candidates for cognitive therapy. Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy might also help.  :) The Transhumanist 00:09, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
72. Support. I can't see why a user who has served the encyclopedia well should not receive the tools because this is a secondary wiki to them. Does inactivity equal potential abuse, or lack of understanding of the way Wikipedia works? bibliomaniac15 Hey you! Stop lazing around and help fix this article instead! 00:29, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
73. Support - per answers. iMatthew 2008 00:53, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
74. Support based on answers given and comments made by nominators and supporters. It doesn't matter if an admin doesn't use the tools often. If they use the tools only once, it will have been a net positive. Seraphim♥ ^Whipp 02:42, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
75. support Even if this user isnt goin to be active, help is always good. Too much time on wiki can be bad as well. Stupid2 (talk) 07:03, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
76. —Dark ^talk 07:43, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
77. Support following Tim's response to my concerns below. Good luck! Relata refero (talk) 08:35, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
78. Support --Duk 10:01, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
79. Support she's an exemplary admin at wikisource. seems like a no-brainer. Jpmonroe (talk) 10:07, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
80. Support Nothing has been brought up that leads me to believe she will abuse the admin tools. As for not planning to be an active admin, so what! Even if she only uses the tools, lets say one or two times a week, that still is a help.--SJP (talk) 14:45, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
81. Support – I was not sure if I should put my remarks in the comment section or in the support or oppose opinion section. Well, reading the Oppose section made up my mind! Happy to say Support won out. First to address the issue to Q#1, if anyone took the time to read BirgitteSB talk page, she/he explained their reasoning why they do not need the tools, but also were reluctant not to use the tools if given to them. Personally, kudos to you, from my standpoint great answers. You are the type of administrator I would like to see more of here. This user is a contributor to the project, not a distraction. Good edit count that shows article building – no conflicts and handles troublesome situations well. Good luck to you. ShoesssS ^Talk 15:54, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
82. Support I am changing from Oppose based on the editor's crat status at Source & her reply below, which provides me with sufficient conviction that her adminship would be an asset to the project. Eusebeus (talk) 15:56, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
83. Support ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 16:20, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
84. Support proven trustworthy editor. Polly (Parrot) 17:22, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
85. Support: A fantastic, dedicated contributor who tackles everything she does with dedication, wisdom and humor! Dovi (talk) 17:59, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
86. Birgitte is one of the people who I think really "gets" the wiki way. She has a deft hand, a good grasp of general principles, and is a very dedicated, hard working contributor. I supported her for Bureaucrat on en:wikisource (s:Wikisource:Administrators/Archives#BirgitteSB), after all ... why would I not support her for admin here? With all due respect to Doc and others, while I do agree that some articlespace contributions are helpful, her mainspace contributions on Wikisource more than make up for that in my view. Absolutely an asset to WMF projects. Strong Support with apologies for not supporting sooner. ++Lar: t/c 18:58, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
87. Support. Demonstrates clue. Carcharoth (talk) 20:22, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
88. Support. I liked the honesty given in Question 1. Not very active doesn't necessarily mean incompetent. Would make a good admin. Gwandoya ^Talk 21:38, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
89. Support --Haemo (talk) 22:09, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
90. Support. Birgitte is quite experienced with the admin tools on other projects, and no harm should come from her having adminship here. The Q1 answer doesn't bother me in the least, she will use them when she feels she needs to, and that will be a net positive - one less bit of work for the rest of us to do. :) Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 05:34, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
91. Support - no issues really with Q1. We can't all be active on enwiki at all times and some of us are busy elsewhere. Everything else seems fine here and 1 sysop action per month is better than none. It's No Big Deal, folks - Alison ^❤ 07:07, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
92. Support As someone who is a sysop on more than one project, I can fully understand the need to parse ones time appropriately. Furthermore, I appreciate Birgitte's honesty in informing us that this would not be her primary wiki. Her history reveals someone who seems to be a fine candidate for the tools, and if she uses them less frequently than some others, in my opinion that is irrelevant. Not everybody can be on every wiki all the time, and mature, reasonable, civil, fair, and honest people, as Birgitte appears to be, can only benefit the project, in my opinion. -- Avi (talk) 08:07, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
93. Support a valuable contributor. Shyamal (talk) 08:36, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
94. Support. Saying they will only use the tools on occasion is better than saying they won't use them at all, or overuse them. And when he/she does use them they'll use them well. Good luck in the RfA. weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 11:47, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
95. Support As per track and the fact she is sysop in more than one project.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 13:44, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
96. Support I cannot imagine that this user would abuse the tools. Jon513 (talk) 15:47, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
97. Support No one needs the tools. That's ridiculous and should not be given weight, as that's not what we're discussing here. We are discussing whether or not we trust this candidate. Everyone seems to trust her. Looks good. Under the rationale provided for many opposes, we should take away the tools for everyone on wikibreak or who is unactive. They don't need the tools, either. нмŵוτたうнτたう 18:53, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
98. Support. Self-reverted my oppose. — Athaenara ✉ 23:52, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
99. Support Looks like the editor would be good with the mop; not convinced by the opposes -- I think we've gotten let admin's have a life sometime or wait, do I need to give mine back? :( Shell ^babelfish 01:33, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
100. Support. It seems that Birgitte is unlikely to be the most active admin, butshe is sane, thoughtful, a great communicator, and has demonstrated her trustiworthiness with tools by her work on wikisource. I am not overly concerned with how infrequently an admin uses the tools (although that I would be very concerned if an admin was trigger-happy); what matters to me is whether the candidate is an appropriate person to have access to the tools, and whether any use she makes of them will be wise. In Birgitte's case, I see plenty of persuasive evidence that the toolkit will be in safe hands. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:33, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
101. Support editor is an asset to the project and editing history demonstrates that she can be trusted with the tools. Pete.Hurd (talk) 05:21, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
102. Support Very good user. I hope she will do a fine job as an admin. Good luck. Masterpiece2000 (talk) 08:41, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
103. Support Admins who use their tools infrequently seem to use them more wisely. - auburnpilot talk 14:43, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
104. Support Good luck and keep that head up!!! Dusti^{talk to me} 18:54, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
105. Support - seems like a good editor who will use the tools wisely. Can see no reason why not despite opposes below. --BelovedFreak 19:10, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
106. A good lass from what I've seen of her. Good luck. Moreschi (talk) 20:55, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
107. Support per Q.1. - 1st sentence of answer. Honesty is all we can require of a candidate in the matter of establishing trust in being allowed use of the tools (even if the use is to be limited). LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:57, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
108. Support - Someone who goes out of their way to keep material in Wikipedia is someone who is a vastly positive influence. I also consider someone who is not looking to use the powers all the time, but rather only when needed to help, that's someone who can be trusted with such powers.KV(Talk) 22:19, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
109. I can't believe I almost missed this RfA. To be honest, even though I didn't recognize the name right away, I now recollect seeing this editor's signature on talk pages, and was under the impression she was already an administrator. Valtoras (talk) 22:40, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
110. Support - sufficient experience with Wikis that she'll know to look before she leaps (or blocks, unblocks, protects, unprotects, deletes, undeletes, grants rollback...), and if she makes a single good use of the admin tools (without any bad uses) then the project is better off with her as an admin. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 22:54, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
111. Support - I had a personal experience with this users abilities and it was like hearing a clear voice emerge for the caos. If I every need someone to arbitrate I would go to BirgitteSB without hesitation. --DRoll (talk) 01:47, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
112. Oppose due to no evidence of watching Robot Chicken, the most hilarious show on earth. Elfits (klat) 10:34, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
113. Support - Some of the opposes below...smh. We have many inactive admins. Birgitte would be a big plus to the squad. miranda 19:18, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
114. Support Sure, Q1 could've been worded differently; very active is relative after all. She seems qualified, and active enough. -Steve Sanbeg (talk) 21:28, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
115. Support No reason not to. Captain panda 03:37, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
116. Support--MONGO 04:12, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
117. Support - seems a stable, trustworthy and intelligent person. SilkTork *^YES! 13:44, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
118. Support: With pleasure. --Bhadani (talk) 17:32, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
119. Support Adminship is all about trust. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not love)} 18:07, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
120. Support - an excellent and very trustworthy candidate. Risker (talk) 18:34, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
121. The opposes are not for good reason. I assume if there were good reasons to oppose, they would have come out by now. So, support. Friday (talk) 20:50, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
122. WTF Support All that trouble about question 1? Does she need the tools? No, and anyone who does probably needs counselling. Would she make good use of them? Surely, when the occasion present itself. Will she abuse them? Surely not. This is meant to be no big deal, remember? Sheffield Steel^talk_stalk 21:48, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

     Support - I came across Brigitte at Wikisource. She is an asset. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 22:18, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

     Jossi, you already voted above (see number 83). Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles^Tally-ho! 00:18, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

     Oops... sorry. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 02:43, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

123. Per all of the above. NHRHS2010 |  Talk to me  23:33, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
124. Support As many above have said, adminship is all about being trusted by the community. To me, this user appears trustworthy and thus my support. Good luck with your RFA!--Mifter (talk) 00:01, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose - Lack of experience with article building and project space. Also, the answer to Q1. Wisdom89 _{(T / ^C)} 03:55, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

   Oppose. (ec) Actually the very same reason. I don't intend to support someone who doesn't wish to use the tools that often. SynergeticMaggot (talk) 03:56, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

   • Note. Suggest a withdraw. SynergeticMaggot (talk) 03:57, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

   Why would you suggest a withdraw, even as early as you placed your opinion? This is hardly one that would be SNOWed. GlassCobra 00:09, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

   My suggestion for withdraw was based on the conclusion that becomning admin for the sake of wanting the tools only to have them, and use them rarely would be seen as a bad reason in general for RfA. I said nothing about SNOW. You don't need SNOW to withdraw a nomination. SynergeticMaggot (talk) 02:12, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

   Actually, when I first posted my comments above, it was heading towards SNOW. The vote was 3-7 and when I finished my rationale above it was 4/8. So early on, it looked like a doomed RfA.Balloonman (talk) 03:25, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

   (response to SM) But the rationale of the nominee wasn't for the sake of having the tools. You've read that in. The nominee doesn't want them as trophies on the wall, but to handle problems as they are encountered. Enabling trustworthy editors to handle problems is a good thing. Wikipedia needs all the trustworthy admins it can find. The Transhumanist 00:14, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

2. Oppose Wisdom has it as usual. Not enough article building. I disagree that not using the tools is an issue (if anything it's a plus not to be on a power trip) but Wisdom's argument stands. Adam McCormick (talk) 04:00, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

   Oppose per SynergeticMaggot and answer to Q1. —αあるふぁἰτίας •discussion• 04:21, 27 March 2008 (UTC) changed to Neutral —αあるふぁἰτίας •discussion• 17:01, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

3. Oppose I stopped reading this RfA after reading the answer to question #1 --Charitwo ^talk 04:28, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
4. Per Q1, if you don't intend to use the tools why request them? You can still be a good editor/contributor without the tools. Tiptoety ^talk 05:36, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
5. On the rare occasion he finds a case where the tools are needed, there are a lot of admins already. If he doesn't intend to help with the general work load, why give him the tools? עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 07:03, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

   Why not? Dorftrottel (troll) 10:47, March 27, 2008

   And I would add as an answer to Od Mishehu's unasked question, so that on that "rare occasion" where a trusted user actually does need them, she has them, and doesn't have to ask an admin for help. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 15:44, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

   Good point. The opposition seems to be operating from the a position of assuming bad faith. For no good or compelling reason, they are unwilling to trust this editor with the tools. They are being too cautious. The nominee's edit history speaks for itself. The Transhumanist 00:20, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

6. Oppose - per answer to Question 1, we already have many editors who become admins for the powers but don't really have the intention of using it and thus are deemed inactive. I prefer active editors to become admins and she is a perfect candidate but if she doesn't intend to use it, I doubt she needs it ...--Cometstyles 11:45, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

   This isn't about her needs. It is about Wikipedia's needs. She has offered herself as a human resource to Wikipedia. We'd be fools not to take her up on her offer, as it presents us with a very likely net benefit. The Transhumanist 00:37, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

7. Oppose per Tiptoety and Wisdom89. TheProf - T / C 12:08, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
8. Oppose - Yep, Q1 was the dealbreaker for me also. If this is a "secondary" wiki to you, then you have no need for the mop here, IMHO. ArcAngel (talk) 15:23, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

   Oh rly? *shows the o rly owl* Which policy says you can't be an admin in a secondary WMF wiki? I don't see such rationale to oppose when I ran for Wikispecies' bureaucratship. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 03:54, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

   Wikiskills are wikiskills. If she has developed her wikiskills on another wiki upon which she is more active, why shouldn't we take advantage of her skills on this wiki? As long as she doesn't abuse the admin tools, and there is no reason to expect that she will, any use she makes of them will be helpful to Wikipedia. Net benefit. Good decision. The Transhumanist 00:37, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

   I agree with you. Unlike many to-be-admins, good thing about supporting this candidate is that we know how she will handle things once she gets the tools. No guess work required. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 16:29, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

9. Oppose - answer on Q1 says you don't need the tools. Toddst1 (talk) 16:15, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

   Could you please outline under which set of circumstances a user would possibly need the tools? Also, this discussion is about trustability with, not need for the tools. Dorftrottel (criticise) 17:08, March 27, 2008

   While we are at it, let's kick out every user who doesn't "need" to edit wikipedia. In short, let's kick out everyone. It would be fun. - TwoOars 18:20, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

   We mustn't stop with editors. Let's kick out readers unless they pledge to read Wikipedia a lot and that they need it. I propose that a reader must promise us that they will browse at least 100 Wikipedia articles in a week, and they must tell us which sections of Wikipedia they will browse in advance. Following the logic of the "oppose per Q1" editors, there's no value in a small benefit, people must read Wikipedia either a lot or not at all. --JayHenry (talk) 00:24, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

   Interesting concept. We could set up a frequent reader program. Casual readers who drop by once a month should not be allowed to just hog all the resources. :-) Pascal.Tesson (talk) 03:52, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

   Let me be very specific: actual use of the tools. Toddst1 (talk) 23:20, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

   Toddst1, the comments on your oppose are, IMHO, this; What harm or detriment do you feel will happen to Wikipedia by granting this candidate admin tools? If they never use them then nothing changes. Full stop. No one seems to have indicated in their opposes direct evidence of misuse. To oppose on the ground of no use seems, well, odd and against the grain of a wiki. Pedro :  Chat  23:33, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

   I agree with Dorftrottel. Whoever needs the tools, except via a desire to help? The nominee wants to help. I see no reason not to let her. It's true, she isn't willing to build us a pyramid, and she's not a Wikipediholic, but so what! Viva la difference! Trustworthiness + willingness to help (even a little) = Net benefit. The Transhumanist 00:37, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

10. Reluctantly oppose per answer to Question 1. User does not seem to require administrative tools. Stephenchou0722 (talk) 19:39, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
11. Oppose Not happy with answer to Question 1 and if only secondary wiki no need for admin tools IMHO. BigDunc (talk) 12:31, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

    In the Discussion section I have added a bit of background about her primary wiki, but please evaluate her experience here. I think you will find she does very good work here and will have ample opportunity to use the tools. John Vandenberg (talk) 21:11, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

    Wikipedia needs all the help it can get. Whether from major helpers or minor helpers. As long as they are trustworthy helpers. The Transhumanist 01:11, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

    Oppose I have to agree with the sentiments above. If you don't plan on using the tools, why solicit them in the first place? Eusebeus (talk) 19:04, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

    I do plan on using the tools; I don't plan on working any particular "admin" area or focusing a certain type of "admin" work. The latter issue is what the question actually asked about. Also I didn't solicit adminship, but rather was solicited by others. I don't mind receiving opposes, but I hate to see the misunderstanding shown in your post. Being granted/denied adminship is not a big deal to me. I think I would be more useful to Wikipedia with the tools, and I clarified in Q1 what pushed me into accepting the ordeal of RfA on this occasion. This has nothing to do with me wanting the "status" of admin (which is a bit of an assumption as to what underlies your comments). I am secure in the reputation my contribution history gives me and I don't need any mark in the user rights log. Your post seems to imply that you find this RfA to be attention-seeking. If you truly look over my contributions I think you will find such a motivation to be out-of-line with my past behaviour.--BirgitteSB 19:32, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

    Meine Entschuldigungen. You have taken my comment in completely the wrong spirit, although I fully understand your concern. So let me be add, by way of lapidary amplification, that when I say solicit, I mean that in a wholly neutral way - by accepting, in other words, a nomination for adminship and setting forth reasons (as you did in the answers to the questions) why you might profit from having those tools available to you. Eusebeus (talk) 20:40, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

    Thanks for clarifying and I apologize for making assumptions.--BirgitteSB 20:48, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

    What does the proposed level of use of the tools have to do with anything? The nominee has pledged to use the tools occasionally. Why don't you consider that good enough? What's the problem? I don't understand your reasoning. Please explain it to me. The Transhumanist 01:11, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

    Sorry "proudest of contributions that have been in talk space" kills it for me. I need to see some solid article work listed under best contributions.--Doc^g 16:27, 29 March 2008 (UTC) Have been reassured that this editor will not step on the toes of writers. Opposition withdrawn.--Doc^g 22:34, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

    Having looked at her edits, I think she meant that her "proudest contributions" have been in the talk space as she is working to build consensus, resolve conflicts and obtain adequate sourcing for articles. She does a lot of 'discussion' on articles.Balloonman (talk) 17:55, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

12. Oppose - Whats the point of becoming an admin and having those responsibilities when your not even going to be here often. Its like becoming a copper and saying i wont be coming to work for 10 months of the year. Roadrunnerz45 (talk) 12:16, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

    Key difference being that cops are typically paid (or at least get a cool uniform). Also, where is it said that BirgitteSB won't use the tools 10 months a year? Rami R 12:34, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

    She is going to be here! She has over 6000 edits here. She has roughly as many edits on Wikipedia as she does on Wikisource. Please review her contributions here. Thank you. John Vandenberg (talk) 12:52, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

    Oppose as per "I honestly don't intend to be very active as an admin here" in candidate's 03:30, 27 March 2008 (UTC) statement. — Athaenara ✉ 15:02, 30 March 2008 (UTC) Went away for a few hours, had some more optimistic thoughts, changing to support (see above). — Athaenara ✉ 23:52, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

13. Oppose Low mainspace edit [4], 2968 mainspace edits and highest edit is in St. Louis, Missouri i.e. only 12. Lack of experience in article building. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 17:15, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
14. Oppose- question 1 answer. Mww113 (talk) 23:35, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Neutral

1. Neutral per Q1. But she does seem like a good editor so I can't find something major with which to give an Oppose for. -WarthogDemon 04:28, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
2. Neutral Also per Q1. I don't think it's something I should oppose for. --Sharkface217 04:36, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

   Neutral pending a little more information on article-writing. I'd like to see some evidence of appreciation of what constitutes a reliable source, for example. (Note that I think there's nothing wrong with her answer to Q1.) Relata refero (talk) 06:25, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

   I've added some links to her peer-review work. Tim Vickers (talk) 20:11, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

   Thank you, Tim, very helpful. Relata refero (talk) 08:33, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

3. Neutral - I'm on the fence with this one and may move it to oppose. I appreciate that some admins may be more active than others, and even though any contribution done as an admin is advantageous to the project, the candidate's response to Q1 does not strike me as particularly well thought out. Saying you don't intend to be very active as an admin because this wiki is secondary to you really doesn't do much for your nomination and it seriously begs the question why you want to become an administrator here when you consider it subordinate to another wiki. I also would've liked to have seen some kind of article building, i.e. a GA or FA. But can I also ask fellow editors to at least read the entire RFA before they comment on it, as to discard the entire thing so quickly feels like playing devil's advocate, rather than forming a balanced good faith response based on the whole perspective. WilliamH (talk) 12:43, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

   Neutral. Really excellent communication on talk pages, which is a must for an admin. And while I'm a fan of wiki-gnomes, being one myself, I'm not seeing lots of contributions that show understanding (or lack of understanding) of policies. Quite a bit of recent work is removing cleanup tags from stub articles (with an edit summary of "stub's don't get tagged with {{cleanup}}", which is sure news to me), and removing unref tags from articles that have references. I only saw a couple of instances of deletion work (participating in AfDs, nominating for prod or speedy deletion, etc.) and a couple of instances of vandal fighting. I'd love to support if I could see that this editor understands those areas, but I'm not finding enough examples. Sorry.--Fabrictramp (talk) 15:09, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

   My fault I'm afraid, I forgot to add the stats for her alternate account User:BirgitteSB-prod that she used for quite a lot of her AfD and prod work. Tim Vickers (talk) 20:11, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

   Changed to weak support after reviewing alternate account contribs.--Fabrictramp (talk) 21:07, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

4. Neutral. Long-term editor with great work sourcing articles. I utterly disagree with most of the "need for the tools" arguments. However, like Fabrictramp, I'm concerned at the editor's understanding of the utility of tagging stubs, for example, removing "refimprove" tags from stubs which definitely need more referencing. Also, back in June 2007 there was an incident where her subsidiary account was blocked for multiple inappropriate use of prod for controversial deletions, and I'm not seeing much subsequent use of the deletion processes to make me comfortable with giving the editor the delete button. Sorry. Espresso Addict (talk) 16:33, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

   For the record I think the summary you provided of the block is inaccurate. While I agree that I misunderstood what should be tagged {{prod}} at the time, the block was also due to the administrator believing the account to be a bot. I was easily convinced that my tagging was inappropriate, once I was alerted to the issue, and quickly to agreed to change my behavior. Short of never making a mistake in the first place, I would like to know what more I could have done at the time to inspire confidence in myself. Afterwords I seldom used prod (never inappropriately as far as I know) but took several items through AfD (that account has an AfD script installed). I haven't had any in so long because we are still working on June 2006 and all the articles needing deletion have already been located. I imagine when we get to July 2006 there will be some more hoaxes discovered and I will continue to build my confidence in what is an uncontroversial delete through AfD nominations while using prod only where I am completely confident of this. For the record my confidence level on the issue was pretty low after this incident and I think you can see the AfD's I did were rather uncontraversial. There are obvious hoaxes that I would be confident prodding today while I would still not be confident prodding something for notability in most all cases.

   Regarding stubs and {{refimprove}}: I actually used to add {{refimprove}} to stubs when removing {{unreferenced}}. I have since been convinced that stubs only need a general reference and the {{refimprove}} is inappropriate for stubs. Now I remove it when I see it on a stub. I will point out that there are people who think stubs shouldn't even be tagged with {{unreferenced}} at all and other people will tag a stub with {{expand}} (which I remove as well). I think my understanding of what tags are appropriate for stubs is well-supported and a rather median position within the realm of opinions on the matter.--BirgitteSB 17:30, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

   I dont think it is appropriate to rule her out because she hasnt participated in deletion discussions here; I think it is safe to say she isnt going to be recklessly using the delete button. For a fun walk down memory lane to see some evidence of AFD involvement:

   • WP:AFD (July 21, 2005) : of 25 votes and noms, every single one is either still kept, or still a redlink after almost three years
   • WP:AFD (August 3, 2005) : of 15 votes and noms, the only time she wasnt on the money is WebSideStory (kept) and Giga Character Set (deleted).

   There are more if you look though the earlier contribs, and she is a regular participant in Wikisource deletion discussions, and has never abused the tools on the English Wikisource. John Vandenberg (talk) 21:46, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

5. Neutral Changed to neutral per Acalamari and Sharkface217. —αあるふぁἰτίας •discussion• 17:01, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
6. Neutral per Q1, and per Sharkface. Spencer^T♦C 00:04, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
7. Neutral Q1 and lack of evidence of preparedness for the tools. Húsönd 20:04, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

   She's an admin and crat on en:wikisource... I would think she knows how to use the tools. ++Lar: t/c 17:16, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

   That's a point, but I'd be more comfortable if I could know that she would be able to use them well on Wikipedia. There's a difference between knowing how do they function and how should they be used. Húsönd 01:18, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

8. Neutral Q1. --MisterWiki talking! :-D - 22:50, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
9. I disagree with the above, but I feel I must make a comment here. I've just had a rather unpleasant discussion with her (off-wiki) regarding bureaucrats on Meta-wiki. Background: we proposed that bureaucrats should be able to remove rights as well as add. I found her overall tone to be aggressive and accusing, and when she didn't understand why we were doing something she exclaimed, "My mind would be boggled" (or words to that effect). She then bluntly refused to accept that a certain user was a steward, even when I posted the userlist and showed her the rights the user had. She said that she'd rather believe the user themselves, even when faced with clear evidence of opposition. In all, my brief interaction with this user was most unpleasant, and I would not want this kind of user as an admin. Majorly (talk) 17:40, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

   For the record I said "It just boggles my mind that they went off the user rights log and changed rights without speaking to the users in question". The user I will not accept to be a steward was not elected as a steward, and denies that she is a steward herself. As I said then "I'll take her word for it". Obviously Majorly has a different opinion on the matter, and I did bluntly refuse to adopt it as my own.--BirgitteSB 17:56, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

   Odd, I didn't think who was or wasn't a steward could be a point of contention :-). There is an automatically updated list of users with steward permission here. I would have thought it was conclusive as to who is a steward or isn't? Of course, 4 of those are developers with steward access rather than elected stewards - Brion, Kate, RobH and Tim (they are mentioned just before the table at m:Stewards#List of stewards). WjBscribe 02:06, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

   Since only one of those is female I guess we all know who was being discussed :)--BirgitteSB 02:22, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

   In that case, I don't think it was necessarily a question of "believing the user themselves" or believing Majorly - it is entirely plausible that she just didn't remember she has steward access. She seems to have performed steward actions only in July 2007 and it looks like she was given the access for "cleanup" before closing projects. The fact of her having the access is undeniable though. WjBscribe 03:12, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

   She was definitely aware. If you are really concerned about this feel free to email me. I don't know that the whole background situation needs to be aired here (as it doesn't really involve me), and this is all a bit out of context as it is.--BirgitteSB 03:23, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

   No, I don't need to know at all. I was just bemused (as no doubt others are too) as to how you and Majorly managed to have "a rather unpleasant discussion" on something so superficially trivial. As my goal was illuminating others who might be reading this, hearing an explanation in private would defeat it. And I don't really want a "he says, she says" expose on the discussion... WjBscribe 04:26, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

   And I don't really want a "he says, she says" I have pretty much backed up what Majorly said I said, although I don't believe that I was "aggressive and accusing" while I do agree that I was blunt (He asked if I still refused to agree with his interpretation and I said "Yes"). I don't think there is any disagreement in substance between what he said and I said. I just don't want give a full analysis of the background actions I was commenting on which do not have anything directly to do with me, here. If anyone questions my judgment or the tone I use in approaching matters, I have nearly 3 years of contributions. I am certain it is possible to assess my character from those without me describing Majorly's actions from a viewpoint I know he disagrees with. In case anyone is confused by my comments here, look at them as an effort to disengage with Majorly which would defeated by my commenting on him directly. --BirgitteSB 10:52, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

10. Neutral. I'm fine with the answer to Q1, neutralling based on a gut feeling. Wizardman 15:36, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
11. Changed from oppose. I still feel the same, although I won't hold my concerns against the candidate. SynergeticMaggot (talk) 16:22, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
12. Neutral Per answer to Q1. Althought there is a lack of experience in article building, I don't see a major reason to oppose. Juliancolton ^{The storm still blows...} 17:38, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

The above adminship discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the talk page of either this nomination or the nominated user). No further edits should be made to this page.