User talk:Jeffq

ARCHIVE INDEX

2004

Kalki - Standard - Headline text - Off the net for a while

2005

Appreciate the editing - Trying to move a page - Reduced activity - Another rookie question - And another - Caching problem - Interested in becoming a Sysop? - Broaden your suspicions - Film shortcut - Dogma, etc. - Thanks - Azerbaijani proverbs & sysop status - Deletion - Reference desk - Léon/The Professional - Sysop - Deletion policy - Redirects - List of films - IP look-ups - Buffy nomenclature - Wikivacation - Protection before deletion? - TV quote guidelines - Block compress errors - Thanks (2) - Protection from move - Pirates - Signature problems - RfA thanks - Amin Maalouf - Issues with guidelines - John-1107 - Nomination - See also - Cleanup tips - Quotation marks - Template:Otherwiki - Hello... - Standard summary field when fixing spam vandals? - Categories - Uncle Nagy's House - Consensus on VfD - Brian Kubats - Thanks (3) - reversion - Create a new topic - Re: Adding a VfD entry - TV updates - Abortion - Sysop (2) - Got you message; I too am fatigue - Invitation to help identify problems, suggest solutions, debate, & vote! - GG collisions - I'm busy now with World War III at the Schiavo page, but wanted to drop a note - Re: congratulations - IRC - SD - Tru Calling - Derek Devenpeck - Buffy goofs - Veronica Mars - VfD goofs - Ingmar Bergman's The Seventh Seal - Million Dollar Baby vote - Message Rec'd - thx 4 feedback - User picture - Re: Congratulations - Re: "Kill them all; for God knoweth them that are His" - Starting new page vote - Question for you regarding titles of pages - Reply and MST3K thanks - Film quote source - Buffy quotes - Vote reminder - Your comments on WQ:VFDA - Reply to Trick Daddy question - Re: Aggressive discussion moving - Lyrics - Re: Tagging "verified" section articles - Re: Duplicate stub messages- Re: Template:Vfud- RfA- Buffy stuff- Condensed TOC for TV shows- Re: Tweaked VFD notice- Computers cleanup- Minor formatting question- baen cd rom- Zalman Stern- re baen- MST3K Quotes- A note of appreciation- Pictures on commons - Summary template - Admin shortcuts - Re: Lexx cleanup tag - Re: For us the living - Bill Maher iPod quote - Template:Wikimedia - Off the Net notice

2006

from me :) - Archiving VFDs - Village Pump - Being there - Bad editer - Category links - RfA - Anon vs. unsigned-in users - Concrete Hippo - Abortion - "submit a quote" - Jeff, I made a rare and brief post -incl apology to you. - Greetings - Question - Temporary refrain from Abortion edits - Bad Editing Help - Bram Cohen Quote - IP block - Ta for the welcome! - oH jEFF - Interwiki user accounts - Thanks for the Welcome - You are a retard. - Danny is a steward - Re: Nomination for administrator - Thanks and Reverted your user page - Thanks for welcoming - QOTD - VFDA renewal - Thanks - My RfA - Aims - QOTD (2) - References - hi jeff - Quotes - ? - How do you create a page?

My RfA

Jeff, Thanks for the RfA nomination and support. I appreciate the vote of confidence and I'm looking forward to helping out as a sysop here. —LrdChaos 21:45, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to the fold, LrdChaos! At the very least, this should make anti-vandalism work easier. ☺ Feel free to ask me any questions, especially if you run into something here that varies from your experience at Wikipedia and would like a quick explanation. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 14:04, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

hey, from thewolfstar

Hey again, Jeff Q. I'm more awake now and can think more clearly. I will link to the appropriate article. I was so sleepy last night, that I couldn't comprehend simple concepts. Thanks for the tips. And again thanks for the friendly welcome to Wikiquote. Any time you'd like to leave a comment on my talk page, please feel free! MaggieThewolfstar 00:08, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Lehi (group)

Today I realised for the first time that you deleted the article Lehi (group) that I created in March. Probably it should have been on Wikisource rather than here. Please fetch the text from the archives and get it to me somehow (mail to nought_0000@yahoo.com or subpage of my Talk page, for example). That will save me another afternoon of work. Thanks. --Zero0000 11:04, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Shawn

I want to make it clear that I had no intentions of annoying anyone. My intentions were for the best. I never insulted anyone! I am outraged that you accuse me of that! And, I never meant for any of this to happen, all I have to say is I am sorry for the way this all turned out and I am sorry for wasting your time. Now I only ask for forgiveness. If you could at least grant me that. Oh and I did read the policy things but I didn't understand it to well. Auraschild 19:27, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Marley quotes

I did some quick research, and the writing credits for "Positive Vibration" are to Vincent Ford, but there are indications that Marley simply gave Ford credit for these and other lyrics. Taking up the suggestion for something by Marley I have found a couple that, while not fully sourced as yet, I find plausible and not likely to become disputed:

"I don't have prejudice against myself. My father was a white and my mother was black. Them call me half-caste or whatever. Me don't dip on nobody's side. Me don't dip on the black man's side nor the white man's side. Me dip on God's side, the one who create me and cause me to come from black and white." ~ Bob Marley

"Positive vibrations man. That's what makes it work. That's reggae music. You can't look away because it's real. You listen to what I sing because I mean what I sing, there's no secret, no big deal. Just honesty, that's all." ~ Bob Marley

I don't know if you will see this in time to weigh in on these, but I will have to make a selection within the next hour, and be out of contact for a couple hours after that. ~ Kalki 22:08, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I always trust your judgment, Kalki, but if you have time to read this, I prefer the "positive vibrations" prose quote. I'm coming to the belief that endless talk of prejudice does little more than to perpetuate the problem. If I had time, I'd find a quote from Heinlein's Moon Is a Harsh Mistress that talks about a future North American population that is the last bastion of black/white racism simply because it tries so hard to act like it isn't. I picked the Marley lyric, even though I'm not a big fan, because I liked the positive sentiment and the idea that it had nothing to do with racism or other weighty issues. (Well, re-watching The Mighty Quinn a week ago helped a little. ☺) ~ Jeff Q (talk) 00:01, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

etiquette

Although it is not strictly against policy, it is typically not considered good wiki etiquette to remove or comment-out other users' postings to your talk page. User talk pages exist for the purpose of communication with other users, and it is as important for other users to be able to see what has been posted to you as it is for you to read it. For instance, the standard welcome message informs other users that you have been given some basic information on the operation of Wikiquote, so newer postings may refer to it or assume that you have been properly informed. (I realize that you are also a Wikipedia user, but there are some differences between WP and WQ, so it's still a good idea to review the WQ-specific information.) If you want to "get rid" of something that you've dealt with, you can archive it and leave a link to your talk-page archive on the main user talk page, which de-clutters the page while allowing others to review your earlier discussions. (This is the same practice that is encouraged on Wikipedia.) ~ Jeff Q (talk) 01:00, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, frankly, it's my talk page and if I don't want something there I have the right to delete, regardless of etiquette. It's a welcome message, one that I have seen before and don't need. Thanks for your input, but, just like the welcome message, yours will be removed as well. My talk page is for important discussion and messages only, and a welcome message or a message telling me about proper etiquette (which by the way I am not new to wikipedia, or it's sister sites) it just a waste of my talk page's space, and wiki's server space. Thanks again. Bignole 02:23, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Re:Block Warning

Will do, Sir. My bad, I know this will sound like an excuse but I've just been really upset the past few days because I have been getting weird e-mails from U.S. Reps. and from some guy welcoming me to a group I never joined, an dthe promoting thing is so people will go to the website and get their quotes and poems and stuff known. I do not see me advertising myself in any way. Once again I am sorry and I do understand the drastic actions, and I feel so many edits were needed because I add them as I come across them in my saved archives, and when I retype them I tend to mispell them thus making me need to edit them again. Unless you are talking about the vfd page, then.. well I really just wanted people to see my quotes and I wanted them to say, but as I said it doesn't matter now because I have them on my website now. One more thing, and this is irrelevant to anything on wiki, but I have my E.U. email account set to save all sent emails, and when I got an email from the US Reps on that address, I had no record of sending them an e-mail and looking at my firefox history I was never on a gov site. So I thught maybe I set it up wrong but when i sent an email to make sure it was saved, is there a way to figure out what is going on? I would really appreciate it if you replied, thank you. Auraschild 20:13, 11 May 2006 (UTC) P.S. E.U. equals Eshema United, which is the name of my website. Just thought I'd tell you incase you were wondering.(Auraschild 20:27, 11 May 2006 (UTC))

---

I also just wanted to tell that, you guys should really watch what you say, and I dont mean that in a threat way, i mean it as... well, if you said that stuff to a suicidal person, they probably would have been dead by this hour. Sorry, I just thought I bring that up... and now I know you'll criticize me for it and I am ready for whatever you have to say back Auraschild 01:33, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

About a quote

"Anyone who believes that suicide is a coward's choice has never truly faced their own death." is a quote on your one page. Well... I faced death many times but I still think suicide is a cowards choice. (And I know you will somehow make this into a self promotion thing) When I was 6 or 7 I was down in southern Ohio with my grandma and grandpa. I was in the pool alone, and I was sucked into the drains current. I remember that day... Its so clear and fresh in my mind. It felt like forever staring. I stared getting sleepy, and then a brilliant white light blinded me, I was so calm and relaxed. I looked straight ahead and saw an angel, and I didn't believe in God or angels at the time. She was so beautiful, so magnificant. She stared at me and then memories flooded my mind. As soon as the memories reached my swimming classes I kind of followed what I was taught to do when drowning, but it didn't work.. The drain was to strong... But then it stopped, it was like a hand letting go of me and started floating. I was barely awake, I was gasping for air. Then I thought I heard someone say it's not your time... but I wasn't sure.

I just really felt like I should say that. I see suicide as an everlasting option but I also see it as a cowards option, I myself used to be suicidal, and I have to admit it it does take guts to commit suicide.. or attempt to at least. I look back at that me and ask myself why... why was I like that... I had no reason, there are people millions of times worse of than I am. But I never really had friends, everyone knew me, but they weren't my friends, and I think the lack of friends really got to me. I know you probably don't care but all I am saying is It may take alot of guts to kill yourself, but takes alot more to endure the pain and move on. I myself am suprised to see myself living today, back in 7th grade I didn't think I'd make it past 8th grade. I guess there was always a small spark of hope that kept me going... Even then I helped others, even though I was in asuicidal state, I always like helping others... I guess that's why I volunteer alot. Okay, well see you around! And have a nice day! or night depending on your location! Auraschild 01:57, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Ummm Shawn Triscari

Ummm.... Mr. Wikiquote person Shawn Triscari is a awesome person and is very very helpful. He's helped me, my friend, my friends friend and alot of other people. He is very smart and smart so he knows alot. He can help you to if you wanted ^-^ (Just a thought) but like you should respect the fact that he's like doing the best out of (Who I think) everyone. His quotes and stuff for most people are actually understandable unlike some other quoters. SO yeah just to let you know Shawns better. He is like umm a very awesomist person yup. So be nice please and if you have tips or something for him then nicely let him know and he'll think about it. So yeah he could really help someone big time you never know man. Give him a shot! ^-^ If he did something wrong then like umm forgive him because im sure he did'nt mean to do whatever it was. People can put quotes and stuff on his website but they turn agianst him now is that his fault no. People can just be down right rude mr.! He always means well ^-^! Thanks bunches... I think....

                                 ~Kaji~

My RfA

Thanks for your support in making me a sysop. As you had mentioned in your vote, I like to go through "attributed" quotes and find out what can be sourced or else discovered as misattributed. When I first came upon Wikiquote, my aim was to add sourced quotations to pages and to create additional pages for notable people. Although I have done some of this and will continue to do more, I find myself drawn most of all to the goal of whittling down those vast blocks of unsourced quotes which have dominated pages. I will also, of course, be available for other duties as I learn them. Best wishes, InvisibleSun 05:41, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you!

I certainly don't mind the changes to my user page. I've been a fan of the Wikipedia page on IPU for quite some time and any opportunity to spread the word is welcome! And I should have updated the bold/italics on my page as well, but that was copied directly from my Wikipedia user page, written before I knew what I was doing over there.... See you around! Wyatt Riot 14:03, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip

Thanks for the tip about moving my Firefly sandbox page to a subpage. I [i]was[/i] thinking of doing that last night, but it was a particularly lazy night for me. It's a miracle I even registered for Wikiquote! --Skrapion 17:37, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

For the welcome. Whopper 04:01, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for the welcome Jeffq. I'm looking to put together a Wikiquote page of quotes from a famous politician. Are there any article here that you think would serve as good examples? Thanks again. RockinRob 23:27, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I found a template. I have a book that has quotes cite from other sources. Do you know offhand how I would cite that? Something like "Quote" in "book" from "original source"? RockinRob 23:48, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Quote books are notorious for failing to cite specific sources of their own. (I was horribly dismayed to see that Laurence J. Peter, he of the infamous "Peter Principle", wrote a book, Peter's Quotations: Ideas for Our Time, containing hundreds of quotations without a single source, even for those he himself said. Still, such a book is at least a start. I usually do something like the following, which I recently added to Logic in a mood for extreme precision:

• He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
  • Jesus; quoted in The Bible, Matthew 12:30 (KJV)

This separates the quotation (and possibly its date and original source) from the publication in which it is readily found. Another example, along the same thematic lines, would be:

• Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists.
  • George W. Bush, 2001-09-20; "Address to a Joint Session of Congress and the American People", White House press release, accessed 2006-05-23

This may seem cumbersome to some, but it's important to note both the date and situation a quote was made in and its reliable source, especially when the original is a speech which may be reported slightly differently by many parties. This is especially true for politicians, who never lack from media who wish to misquote them or cast their actual words in the best- or worst-possible light. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 01:16, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick welcome

I don't expect I'll spend much time here, but thank you anyway! --Connel MacKenzie 03:28, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

The Princess Bride

Jeff, I saw your reversion of the spelling change to Inigo's name, and while I do understand that both WP and IMDB spell it this way, I did want to point out that when he says his name (in his famous line about killing his father), he does pronounce it "Inyeego", even though Fezzik pronounces it more like In-i-go; hence my change. But I'm certainly willing to let it go as is. ~ UDScott 13:28, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Hmm. I don't have the film in front of me, so I can't confirm. But perhaps a better resolution might come from checking the novel, which presumably would have the definitive spelling. I'll be at my local library in a few hours, so I'll check it out. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 14:38, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I checked a library copy and found it written as "Inigo" there as well. I've added a note to Talk:The Princess Bride to alert future editors. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 14:04, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Calvin Coolidge

As it happens, Jeff, Coolidge was born John Calvin Coolidge, Jr. The vandal on his page, after making some edits, had deleted all his actual damage. I had noticed what he was doing earlier, but I haven't been sending warnings to people who vandalize and then reverse themselves. What's our practice about that? Should I be warning them anyway? InvisibleSun 22:07, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

No policy that I'm aware of, which usually means we follow general Wikipedia practice if we know it. What I usually do if all someone does is self-revert nonsense is to assume they were test-editing (however rude or silly the "test") and post them a manual version of {{test}} which says something like "it's not a good idea, even if you self-revert". In fact, I just now decided to get off my lazy butt and make a template of it. Try {{test1-selfrv}} out. In the case where someone does multiple "tests" that include a self-reversion, I typically cite the worst case and/or include links to each edit in a spate, more to warn other vandal patrollers and to make blocking cases than to inform the editor that they're busted. Oh, and I updated the article to show Coolidge's full name. Thanks for the tip. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 00:58, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome

Thank you for your warm welcome : ) MPerel 02:05, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

By the way, thanks also for updating On the Jews and Their Lies to bring it up to Wikiquote standard. MPerel 04:39, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Revert

Thanks for getting the revert for me! Essjay (Talk • Connect) 03:15, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks 2

Hey Jeff, thanks for the welcome! Cheers, Khoikhoi 00:38, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Re: Philip Schaff and Luther's Bible

Please reduce the Philip Schaff on Luther's Bible article to a few essential quotes immediately, as its current state appears to be a major copyright violation. While we welcome starting articles that will be built up over time, we cannot similarly allow massive copyvio articles that need trimming to remain on the site over time, as they will be spread over the Internet by Wikiquote-copying bots in as little as a day or two. If the article is blanked or trimmed before you do this, you can use the history tab of the article to recover the original material from which to select excerpts, so you don't have to retype them. If you have any questions, feel free to drop me a note on my talk page. Thank you for your cooperation. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 01:48, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I will trim it down as you request, but the material is copyright 1910 and completely in public domain. The length is problematic, but there is no chance of copyvio here. Cheers, --Drboisclair 13:59, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

It's good to know that this isn't a copyvio. However, Wikiquote's purpose is not to include huge excerpts of any material. It focuses on pithy quotes. We've had discussions in the past about just how long quotes might reasonably be. Although there has been no consensus per se, the maximum I've ever seen discussed is perhaps three paragraphs. This goes well beyond that. One thing to consider when trimming is what the point of the quote is. Most long passages contain essential ideas that are phrased or summarized in only a sentence or two. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 15:04, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Well that was fast; the ink hardly had time to dry! Thanks for the welcome. Delta x 03:00, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Barbarella cleanup

I'm not clear on why you tagged Barbarella for cleanup. I did notice that the "Dialogue" section was titled "Quotes" and that the IMDb link was broken, but the page seemed otherwise well-formed. (I fixed those things, as well as changing HTML character entities to UTF-8 characters.) If I missed something, please let me know, as I've removed the cleanup tag. Thanks. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 14:06, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Jeff, I see you changed back a few of the things I had done to this page. I honestly don't care one way or the other, but I am a bit confused by a couple of things. Some of the lines you moved back to the Dialogue section are lines from a single character (and as such would seem to be more appropriate for individual quotes in the appropriate section, above the dialogue). Also, some of what you did does not seem to follow the film template. Your change of the quote by Pygar (in the Others section) doesn't seem to be the way films are done, with the attribution after the quote, rather than before it. Also, your italicizing of the character names in the Cast section is new to me. And I also thought that we tried to include a category for the decade a film fits into (which you removed). In the end, as I said, I don't really care, but I wanted to verify your changes, which seem to be different from what other film pages are doing (and what I have been doing with film pages). These are certainly small matters, but I know you share my desire to work out the details and sometimes to sweat the small stuff. ~ UDScott 16:26, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I had started an explanation earlier of what I had done and why, but dumped it out of sheer apathy. (I've been suffering from this disease for a while now.) But you certainly deserve an explanation for my actions. To sum up:

• The loss of the year category was a simple error, which I've rectified.

• I also failed to notice the italicization in the cast section. I have no idea why I did that when I created the article! Now that you've pointed out this oddity, I've reapplied your fix.

• My passion for sourcing makes me want to include everything in Dialogue as an approximation of page-number use for books. (This also requires quotes to be in chronological order, as I always argue.) I've thought about recommending timecodes as source information, but I keep bumping up against my own sense of what the community can be expected to do, and film and TV show articles are already the hardest ones to do correctly. I haven't objected to solo quotes under character headings, but if one or the other should be sacrificed, I say the solo ones should go, because sourcing (and the subsequent ease of verification) is what differentiates Wikiquote from other quote websites. Some modest duplication (without advertising it) seems a reasonable middle course.

• Wikiquote:Templates/Films and Wikiquote:Templates/TV shows were largely created by User:MosheZadka during a flurry of policy work. (I created the individual template pages, but only by copying Moshe's work from Wikiquote:Templates.) These formatting guidelines were based on existing formats that I had pushed for over a year ago and implemented on Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Mystery Science Theater 3000. (Those formatting rules themselves were determined in a dialog largely between myself and User:Jeandré, which I'm afraid went mostly my way after Jeandré faded from the scene. To this day, I feel guilty about reformatting Firefly, which he created and effectively introduced me to.) At that time of Moshe's work, there was no single way to do things. Moshe wanted to formalize my Buffy practice, the 2-4 other active editors at the time went along, so he did so. (That's the way WQ often goes, as you know.) I didn't say much about little things at the time, because it's hard enough to change policy here, and I was busy with VFD reform (which still isn't done). But for the aforementioned sourcing reason, I never agreed with including dialog-like formatting (which is already complicated) in the solo-quote section. (If a quote's value is in dialog exchange, it belongs in Dialogue.) We have another standard for unsourced solo quotes that is much more widespread — the very simple, very obvious "quote ~ quotee" form. It's not needed for solo quotes from characters with enough material to rate their own heading. The alternative "* quote / ** source" format seems needlessly complex if all it does is supply the quotee. Therefore, I went with the more recognized form for "Others".

• Ultimately, I strongly believe that the focus of these articles should be on the dialog, with only pithiest, most memorable solo quotes listed outside of Dialogue for emphasis. There should also be little, or better yet, no stage directions or contexts, as they should not be needed for the pithiest quotes. One of the benefits of the annoyingly complex dialog formatting is that it can more easily accomodate these things if necessary.

I can be a bear about these small matters, but I've seen many experiments tried over the past 2 years, and my head is full of observed but unwritten (or written in too many scattered places) consequences of these variations. I wish I could summon the energy to write all this stuff up in a single place, but even if I did, I'm afraid it would be so ponderous that it might stifle productive alternatives and simply frustrate people who are trying to learn "the system". I'm really hoping that community participation here will grow so much that my voice will become a much smaller one on these issues. I guess what I'm saying in my meandering way is that you and everyone should feel free to fight back on these issues, when you think that they are important. But I also don't want to be too locked into templates and policies that were created by one or two people at a time, most of whom aren't even actively editing anymore. Until we get much more general participation, most of these practices simply reflect the strong opinions of a single editor, and I'm one of the guiltiest in this. (And if you think this was a ponderous explanation, you should try reading the volumes of commentary I've made in the past 2 years on many of these individual formatting issues, across the talk pages of many article, policy, draft, user, and experimental pages. ☺) ~ Jeff Q (talk) 02:26, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Marvell's Coy Mistress

"Thorough" isn't a typo: it's an older version of "through." It would appear that Birrell was modernizing the line to make it more understandable to more modern-day readers. It's always debatable how much the spelling of earlier authors should be modernized for the reader (I was thinking, in fact, of making a Village Pump topic about this). In some older writers I've been working on, like Thomas Browne, I've gone along with changing "mee" to "me," for example, since it doesn't really do anything to compromise the original. (For an example of how things would look if we kept to the complete archaic spellings, see Talk: Mary I of England.) On the other hand, I'd stick with forms like "dost" and stopp'd," for instance, since I think it's going too far to change them and it's not all that hard for us to see what they mean.

In this case, though, I'd argue for staying with "thorough," since changing it to "through" lops off a syllable and alters the meter, each line requiring eight syllables. - InvisibleSun 03:34, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

A-ha! Thanks for the etymological lesson. You bring up another interesting issue that has yet to be explored at Wikiquote. I'm not sure how I'd want to represent this, myself. I tend to favor original texts, but I haven't really thought about English so old that its meaning ends up obscure or even misinterpreted. (I'd never even looked at our Geoffrey Chaucer article until this made me think of it.) For now, I concur with your preference. I've reverted my change to "Coy Mistress" and posted a note about this to the reference desk. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 03:51, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Star Trek Films

Don't worry JeffQ, you didn't scare me off, (and by the way, I am a "him"). Actually, I agree. Star Trek Movies probably should be 10 seperate articles, but until I, or someone else, has the chance to do that, I think that having a seperate article for the films is better than having the films with the articles for their respective series (Star Trek: The Original Series and Star Trek: The Next Generation). Formatting one article is easier than formatting ten. I will take your suggestion of renaming the article Star Trek films, however. By the way, it was I who initially suggested the the new article in Talk:Star Trek: The Original Series#Form a new section called Star Trek Movies before I became a member. Thanks for your help. CALQL8 15:53, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Of course, you're right about a "films" article being better than the messy TV-and-film combo across two articles. But since the basic formatting has already been done, I've gone ahead and created the 10 film articles. I still regret not taking action on Star Wars, but I care less about it than Star Trek, so I pushed aside some other stuff and spent the 45 minutes it took to get them all established. I'd appreciate it if you could look them over and tweak anything I missed. I've replaced the w:List of Star Trek films link (a WP article whose case I had to fix — grr) with individual WP film article links for each, added an IMDb link per film, and added the films to the "See also" sections. What I haven't done yet is create proper intros (usually 1-3 sentences from the WP film article) or add the cast. (I also haven't added taglines, which I don't usually care about, or individual quotes, which I prefer not to generate, as I believe the dialog format is better for sourcing purposes.) Anyway, they're started, so we should probably redirect Star Trek films and all their current variants to Star Trek, which has all this information. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 23:23, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

JeffQ, before you go through the trouble, I already fixed the links in the TOS movie articles in Wikipedia, but not the TNG movies. CALQL8 03:58, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Oops! Too late. While I was tweaking some other things, I removed the unnecessary parameters from the WQ links. I just finished the TNG films, too. By the way, it occurred to me that the Star Trek navigational footer template in use in the WP articles could be adapted for use here, if you want to take a crack at that sometime. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 04:16, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

By the way, thanks for restoring ST5 to Star Trek. I got myself so bollixed up between Final Frontier and Undiscovered Country that when I worked on undoing some dumb mistakes, I created another one by deleting ST5 from my master list. I also made the same mistake when fixing w:List of Star Trek films, but that one I eventually caught myself. I swear it wasn't a Freudian slip! ~ Jeff Q (talk) 04:23, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for all your help JeffQ. One other thing I need help with, something I don't know how to do yet. We need to remove my Star Trek films article. I was thinking we could have it redirected to Star Trek, which now includes a list of the movies. How do we do this? CALQL8 04:46, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

You're quite welcome. To redirect an article, just replace the entire content of the old article with the following line:

#REDIRECT [[New article title]]

Thank you very much for working on these articles. Between you and a few other editors, Wikiquote's Star Trek articles are getting some long-needed attention. Now, if we could only find some conscientious Star Wars fans… ☺ ~ Jeff Q (talk) 06:35, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Re: Quoting from quote books

Quote books are notorious for failing to cite specific sources of their own. (I was horribly dismayed to see that Laurence J. Peter, he of the infamous "Peter Principle", wrote a book, Peter's Quotations: Ideas for Our Time, containing hundreds of quotations without a single source, even for those he himself said. Still, such a book is at least a start. I usually do something like the following, which I recently added to Logic in a mood for extreme precision:...

Thanks for the response Jeff, I should elaborate. I have a book of quotes from former Philadelphia Mayor Frank Rizzo called "The Sayings of Chairman Frank", put out by the Americans for Democratic Action. A typical entry might be something like this:

-I like art. It was us Italians who started most of it." Daily News 5-24-72

Basically the book lists quotes, and then sources a Philadelphia newspaper or magazine. If I used this book as a source would I say for example, -quote from "The Sayings of Chairman Frank" page 37, or would I say -quote from the Philadelphia Daily News, or would I say something else entirely?

I can verify the quotes in other references I have if needed, but if I could save a little bit of work while still being accurate, I'd like to do that. Thanks again. RockinRob 23:22, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

You remind me that we sorely need a Wikiquote:Sourcing quotes policy page to clarify these things. Right now, most of it is driven by largely unwritten practices, based partly on w:Wikipedia:Citing sources and other WP policies and partly on historical practice, bolstered by latter-day editors (like myself) who have been fighting to signficantly improve the state of sourcing here.

For now, I'd recommend that you include the supposed original source at a minimum. Anything else is third-hand at best. After all, we don't really know if author himself is also repeating something he read somewhere else, so the closest source to the original is always desirable. (Of course, we might expect Rizzo to know where his own quotes are printed, but the general principle is closest-is-best.) If the closest source is sufficiently specific, I don't usually bother with where I discovered it, as it's only being reported by the latter. In your example, however, the cited source fails to mention where in the rather considerable length of the Philadelphia Daily News of 24 May 1972 this quote appears. Usually, the minimum specific news source should include an article title. (By the way, always format dates so that they are unambiguous. American (and probably European) authors and publishers tend to ignore the fact that U.S. and European date practices frequently have the month and date mutually reversed. The two best ways to avoid confusion are (A) to spell out the month and (B) to use date links, e.g., May 24, 1972. Either will present the day unambiguously to all readers. See w:Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)#Dates containing a month and a day for how this works.)

Personally, I'm undecided about further information if the closest source isn't sufficiently specific. One the one hand, having a specific indirect source (Chairman, p. 37) provides at least one specific source. On the other hand, it doesn't add much to the verifiability of the quote, unless Chairman has a bibliography with more specific data. The goal in sourcing is to make it as easy as possible for our fellow readers and editors to be able to verify a quote, since the entire community forms the "editorial board" of Wikiquote. Sorry I can't be more specific myself. ☺

One last note: if you cite any work with page numbers, always remember to include the ISBN in the citation, or, if one doesn't exist, the publisher, edition, and year. (All of these are part of a proper citation, but if you're going to "cheat", as we often do, the ISBN makes it easy to look up the other info.) This data will give others a fighting chance to interpolate the location of a quote in a different edition with a different page count. (For that reason, the total number of pages is a good idea, too.) ~ Jeff Q (talk) 00:02, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I just wanted to thank you for your thorough response, I knew when I saw "Jeff Q as a dimension" as the caption for your picture after I got your welcome message that you would be a good editor to query. Your advice is excellent, and I will folllow it. In this specific case, I will use the quote book to go find primary sources in my local college library, and in the future I will use as credible and easily verifiable sources as possible for articles. RockinRob 01:39, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

thanks!

thanks for the welcome-want to be wikibuudies?SPOV 14:47, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the concept of "wikibuddies". What do you mean? ~ Jeff Q (talk) 09:35, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

thanks for welcome

thanks for the welcome jeffq, i've been around on wikipedia and wikisource for a while. I'm just trying to make sure at present that article on Gerhard Dorn is so-spelt on page at present is without an H, a typo error i cannot change, should be easy for you to tho' quicker than explaining how . CheersNorwikian 15:51, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it is easier for me to do it than to explain, but then you wouldn't know how to do it, eh? It's pretty easy to do — just click on the "move" tab at the top of the article, make the change in the box labelled "To new title", add an explanation (like "correct spelling"), click on the "Move page" button, and presto! You're done. If anything goes wrong, then you can call for assistance from any of the sysops (like myself). ~ Jeff Q (talk) 09:41, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

thanks for welcome message

Hi Jeffq, thanks for your welcome message --Uğur Başak 12:54, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

QOTD work

Looking at the progress you made with the date pages, I was pleased, but to simplify things a little, before you proceed much further, I think that I should update all the months pages to the newer format where past QOTDs are above the suggestions, and I will attempt to get this finished within the next day. ~ Kalki 19:56, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

That would help, but don't feel obligated to do so. I've gotten a pretty good system going now, where it only takes me about half an hour for 12 month-dates, including the transposing. (I'll take it in whatever form I get it.) One thing that I haven't done yet that will require a second pass is to grab the older past-QotDs that aren't currently in the month pages. However, it seems like this could easily wait until after the conversion. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 20:57, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for the welcome! --BlueLegion 13:48, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Btw Im Osbus on WP. --BlueLegion 13:49, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Question

Hay, Mind if I tell you a joke? Wazzawazzawaz 02:14, 12 June 2006 (UTC)