(04:00:14 PM) eyedeekay: Hi everybody, welcome to the July 5 Meeting
(04:00:14 PM) eyedeekay: 1. Hi
(04:00:14 PM) eyedeekay: 2. 1.9.0 development status
(04:00:14 PM) eyedeekay: 3. Support for Apple Silicon in the Mac easy-install bundle
(04:00:14 PM) eyedeekay: 4. Windows easy-install bundle - out of beta?
(04:00:32 PM) zzz: hi
(04:00:35 PM) zlatinb: hi
(04:00:44 PM) mode (-m ) by zzz
(04:00:55 PM) eyedeekay: Hi guys, anybody else here today?
(04:01:30 PM) eyedeekay: Moving right into 2. 1.9.0 development status
(04:04:27 PM) eyedeekay: We are at a little less than 6 weeks in  I think, approx. 7 to go
(04:04:27 PM) eyedeekay: zzz and orignal have been working hard on the implementation of SSU2 in i2p.i2p and i2pd
(04:04:27 PM) eyedeekay: It won't be activated in 1.9.0 but if I understand correctly it's nearly done
(04:04:27 PM) eyedeekay: I've been working on UDP tunnels again, mostly there but something's broken still, I'll probably need to ask zzz for help this week
(04:04:50 PM) eyedeekay: zzz zlatinb anything else to add
(04:05:09 PM) zzz: that's right, ssu2 is mostly working
(04:05:17 PM) zzz: still fixing small bugs
(04:06:03 PM) zzz: right now I'm working on making tunnel peer selection more efficient (unrelated to ssu2)
(04:06:03 PM) zzz: other than that, just doing the usual bug fixing
(04:06:06 PM) zzz: targeting a late august release
(04:06:08 PM) zzz: EOT
(04:06:48 PM) eyedeekay: Anyone interested in helping test should visit zzz's forum for instructions and to give feedback: http://zzz.i2p/topics/3314-how-to-enable-ssu2-in-i2p-1-8-0
(04:07:00 PM) eyedeekay: 3. Support for Apple Silicon in the Mac easy-install bundle
(04:07:27 PM) eyedeekay: zlatinb this is your topic, take your time
(04:08:11 PM) zlatinb: hi, the big issue was jbigi but that is now solved via backporting the x18 register patch
(04:08:59 PM) eyedeekay: So the easy-install bundle no longer needs to run on the emulated x86_64 mode?
(04:09:15 PM) zlatinb: I would like to put up an official and notarized beta around end of july
(04:09:42 PM) zlatinb: it has to be a separate download
(04:09:46 PM) zzz: this would be a second bundle. we'd have two, one for x86 and one for arm
(04:10:29 PM) zzz: I'm in favor, as it appears the extra dev effort would be small, and the speedup is large. Right?
(04:10:37 PM) zlatinb: there is a caveat with updates when switching between bundle4s 
(04:12:21 PM) zzz: sure, as long as there's instructions on how to switch, even if it's as simple as uninstall and reinstall, that should be fine
(04:13:01 PM) zlatinb: i'll put them on /download/mac
(04:13:23 PM) zlatinb: the news url needs to be changed manually
(04:13:51 PM) zzz: the dev effort is small and the speedup is large, correct?
(04:14:36 PM) zlatinb: speedup is there, also looks good to keep up with the times :)  dev effort except for notarization is small
(04:14:48 PM) zzz: great. +1
(04:14:54 PM) eyedeekay: +1
(04:15:07 PM) zlatinb: thx EOT
(04:16:02 PM) eyedeekay: Thanks zlatinb
(04:16:02 PM) eyedeekay: 4. Windows easy-install bundle - out of beta?
(04:16:35 PM) eyedeekay: I said ~3 months ago that I would be ready to move the easy-install bundle out-of-beta when I had a successful end-to-end update
(04:18:05 PM) eyedeekay: I got that at 1.7.2 IIRC, but between 1.7.2 and 1.8.0 there were a number of bugs in how it worked when used with an external I2P router(i.e. a non-jpackaged router) in this situation the bundle is intended to work as a firefox-launcher only but this functionality was broken from 1.7.3-1.7.6
(04:18:30 PM) eyedeekay: So I pushed it back again, but now I'm sure that all of the issues with running in both bundled and non-bundled modes are resolved
(04:19:38 PM) eyedeekay: So I think it's finally ready to move out of beta, all the core functionality I thought was necessary has been established
(04:20:49 PM) zzz: here's some things that may still need to be resolved:
(04:21:18 PM) zzz: - is it just you that is successfully updating or are there other users that are also?
(04:21:43 PM) zzz: - license requirements all met now?
(04:22:27 PM) zzz: - are the windows bundle and the mac bundle now on the same JRE and roughly same release schedules?
(04:22:58 PM) zzz: -- i.e. prepared for the 3-monthly JRE releases
(04:23:22 PM) zzz: - and the usual question, do we have the resources to support this as an official product
(04:23:49 PM) zzz: - also, are we removing the non-bundle download like we did for mac? or not?
(04:23:51 PM) zzz: eot
(04:25:46 PM) eyedeekay: License requirements are now fixed
(04:25:46 PM) eyedeekay: I don't get a lot of feedback but at least 2 non-me updaters
(04:25:46 PM) eyedeekay: I am sticking to LTS JRE, I think zlatinb is doing 18, but yes we are on the same schedule more-or-less
(04:25:46 PM) eyedeekay: I do not think the resources required to work on the bundle are extensive, the hardest part is getting the build set up and it's not that hard, small investment now that it all works
(04:25:46 PM) eyedeekay: I kind of want to remove the non-bundled download or possibly make it an "advanced installation" procedure
(04:28:14 PM) zzz: - I don't think 2 non-you updaters is enough testers to declare it non-beta. Can you pimp it more on reddit or something?
(04:28:25 PM) eyedeekay: Sure can do
(04:28:43 PM) eyedeekay: I'm not in a hurry to rush it out
(04:29:18 PM) zzz: - I'd like to see win and mac on the same JRE. Let's consolidate. I don't know which of you is right, but one of you is
(04:29:29 PM) zzz: can you two come to an agreement?
(04:29:43 PM) zzz: or are there reasons to be different?
(04:30:01 PM) eyedeekay: I'm not married to my decision, I chose LTS strictly because of the statement "LTS"
(04:30:57 PM) zzz: to be clear, not just the same version, but the same JRE supplier
(04:31:10 PM) zzz: this will reduce the CVE review required every 3 months
(04:31:14 PM) eyedeekay: We're both using Oracle right now to my knowledge
(04:31:34 PM) eyedeekay: The only vendor with a similar update cycle is Amazon
(04:31:49 PM) eyedeekay: I'd rather use Oracle than Amazon I think
(04:33:16 PM) zzz: you two should be making these decisions together and in sync. I don't know why you're not and it sounds like you don't know either? :)
(04:35:22 PM) eyedeekay: No I don't know. We did discuss vendors and update cycles at a couple points which is when we landed on Oracle due to releases being very quick compared to CVE's, but I don't know why I'm on 17 and zlatinb's on 18 now
(04:36:27 PM) zlatinb: I don't remember the exact reason either
(04:36:59 PM) zlatinb: maybe I wanted to test the ram reductions
(04:37:28 PM) zzz: ok. I'm in favor of it coming out of beta, but let's get on the same JRE, get some more testing first and come back to us in a month or two
(04:38:11 PM) zzz: I also want to think more about whether to remove the standard installer, maybe even worth a separate meeting about that
(04:40:28 PM) zzz: eot
(04:40:28 PM) eyedeekay: Re: actual reasons, perhaps a discussion for another time but I know the reason I'm on Oracle/17 is because I needed to pick a vendor who would respond to CVE's in less than 24 hours and because I wanted to ensure that I would have stability in terms of what I could expect from the API's and the JVM. I didn't really consider other reasons
(04:40:28 PM) eyedeekay: Based on a sample of 1 event, I assessed that Oracle and Amazon were the fastest to release an update.
(04:40:28 PM) eyedeekay: I considered Amazon because they are packaged in chocolatey which makes life on Windows a lot easier, but decided on Oracle instead
(04:41:54 PM) eyedeekay: So that's how I landed on Oracle/17, basically out of caution
(04:41:56 PM) eyedeekay: eot
(04:41:57 PM) zlatinb: I can go down to 17 but really prefer to stick to oracle
(04:42:18 PM) eyedeekay: So would I, so we're agreed
(04:42:48 PM) zlatinb: on a related note i'll be afk until a week after the next jre release
(04:43:28 PM) eyedeekay: Will we/can we make any arrangement for signing the bundles?
(04:43:32 PM) zzz: I think you need 18 for the best apple arm support? if so then let's drag windows up to 18 also. But again, you two shouldn't be doing JRE vendor research and selection in separate silos. work together and decide together
(04:43:32 PM) zlatinb: hopefully there won't be any urgent fixes
(04:44:22 PM) zzz: we have limited resources, let's not do stuff twice for no reason
(04:44:23 PM) zlatinb: signing requires deanon
(04:44:28 PM) eyedeekay: I can push an unsigned bundle and tell people that they'll need to click through the pop-up in the news if need be
(04:44:52 PM) eyedeekay: Still signed `su3` just not signed `exe`
(04:45:21 PM) zlatinb: can't "click-through" on mac
(04:45:31 PM) zlatinb: oh the exe signing is fine 
(04:45:50 PM) zlatinb: we'\ll do it as  usual
(04:46:41 PM) eyedeekay: OK then. Let me know if there's anything I can do(less rapidly deanoning) to help
(04:47:39 PM) zlatinb: Nothing really other than take down the mac download page in the worst case
(04:47:55 PM) eyedeekay: Well you have my signal number if you need me to do it
(04:48:23 PM) zlatinb: ok.  it would be for a week at most
(04:48:52 PM) zzz: eyedeekay, you're not setting the news URL in the feed, search for CHANGEME_URL_HERE :)
(04:49:19 PM) eyedeekay: OMG I can't believe I missed that
(04:49:29 PM) eyedeekay: Will do
(04:49:32 PM) zzz: i put that in there a while back so you'd remember, I guess it didn't work (((
(04:50:20 PM) eyedeekay: Re: Java 18 and Apple hardware, zzz just mentioned that 18 may have better support? If that's the case than that would be a thing I didn't know before and a reason to use 18 instead, can you confirm that?
(04:51:39 PM) zlatinb: haven't done my homework on that sorry
(04:51:53 PM) zzz: maybe a wild guess on my part, but don't need to decide in this meeting
(04:52:17 PM) zlatinb: but if linux arm support is any indication it's very likely
(04:52:34 PM) zlatinb: history of*
(04:52:45 PM) zzz: but in general, newer is better, so isn't the point of bundling the JRE in a "easy bundle" is to have the latest?
(04:53:19 PM) eyedeekay: I don't know, sometimes stable is better, and sometimes "easy" is somewhere in between
(04:53:55 PM) zzz: that's why putting a LTS in a bundle doesn't make sense to me. 
(04:58:29 PM) eyedeekay: Probably won't settle it today, but maybe I'm wrong about 17. zlatinb do you have a time that would be good this week to hammer out the 17/18 debate?
(05:00:05 PM) zlatinb: generally any time is good and also bad because of my injury unless you want to get on a call
(05:01:05 PM) eyedeekay: I'm happy to get on a call, we can figure out a time in private
(05:01:18 PM) zlatinb: ack
(05:01:43 PM) eyedeekay: Anything else for 4?
(05:01:48 PM) eyedeekay: Or for the meeting?
(05:01:53 PM) eyedeekay: Timeout 1m
(05:03:46 PM) eyedeekay: All right thanks everybody for coming