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EBU in discussion with broadcasters
Exclusive: A new voting procedure for Eurovision?
The Eurovision Song Contest has always sparked debate when it comes to voting. The arguments about block voting, political voting, neighbourly voting and recently, diaspora voting have sometimes overshadowed the competition itself. Voting cartels, vote swapping deals and even a national leader bribing juries to steal victory for their country have been claimed but never proved. Since the launch of televoting in the 1990s, many believe the competition has become increasingly politically charged, especially after the introduction of the semi final in 2008.
Following the result of the 2007 semi final, when countries in Western Europe were seen to have missed out on a spot in the final because all qualifiers came from Central and Eastern Europe, changes were brought forward and a two semi-final system was introduced for the 2008 competition. Earlier this year in Belgrade, the new system was used for the first time. It was widely held as a success, with a fair balance of countries from across Europe taking their places in the final, and wide agreement that the best songs qualified from each semi final.
The result of the final, however was claimed to show that with all countries voting in one show, the political/neighbourly/diaspora voting problem was stronger and more poinient than ever. Monaco withdrew from the competition after the 2006 semi final, claiming that it could not qualify for the final because of the Eastern bias. In 2007, Austria followed suit. One broadcaster has already told the EBU that it is considering withdrawal for 2008 if the voting system is not rebalanced.
esctoday.com can report that the EBU is now actively looking at alternative voting methods for 2009. A questionnaire has been sent out to broadcasters and the responces will guide the reference group. Two alternative voting methods were explored by the reference group in 2007, but were rejected. Although no deadlines or confirmed changes have yet been agreed, there is a real chance that for the first time in many years, a change to the voting provedure in the final may take place. The current system has been in use since 1975.
esctoday.com has put a number of questions about the exploration of voting changes to the EBU and later today, we will publish an interview with Sietse Bakker, Manager of Communications & PR for the Eurovision Song Contest.
Stay tuned to esctoday.com for all the latest news regarding the Eurovision Song Contest.
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I actually just sent my ideas about the voting procedure off to the EBU...lol I wonder if they will even look at it?
Jonny
Yeah, of course 
Stockholm
The lines stay open because simply, the longer the lines stay open, the more people vote. And the more people vote, the more money SVT get. Its the same with any televoting show nowadays, they'll keep the lines open for as long as possible to make the most money possible, notice how at esc the voting time increased to 15 minutes in 2007? 
Finn
Thanx for your kind words about my ideas I feel a bit freaked out that no one has attacked me for what I've said so far! Its really something for the books lol
I would agree with you that 2007 was better (song wise) than this year, in fact it was probably better in a lot of other ways too! I don't think the west COMPLETELY cocked up last year Spain had a fairly good song, but I do agree that all the good Western songs were probably in the final already, still they didn't do well in that final, some countries definitely deserved higher last year but it was much less of a cock up than this year (results wise). I do think that a lot of good songs DID pass to the final this year but there are still countries like the Netherlands that deserved a LOT higher!
On the topic of who might be threatening to pull out, I think it is a big four country and if not a very long running country such as Belgium or the Netherlands but I'm not convinced its the BBC,I think give it another few years like this and it WOULD be the BBC, but they simply get too big viewing figuers for ESC, also they are already hyping up ESC at least to the fans with the whole, who is going to replace Wogan question. I also think they know they haven't sent the best song they could for the last three or four years and that they have PARTIALLY deserved the lower points (even if we haven't deserved such low points... especially compared to countries such as Latvia this year, Ukraine in 2007 and Lithuania in 2006).
I think it could be the Netherlands or France. Neither did particularly well this year (even though France did do much better than was expected and than they have recently) and they have obviously got the EBU at least jogging scared so they must either be powerful or traditional. Also in the case of France espeically the viewing figuers hav dropped dramatically recently! I think this year it was bearly 1 million French people watching! Now for supposedly " the most watched non sporting event in the world" for a country the size of France to have that low viewing figures would mean that the broadcaster would be very unhappy!
Jonny
You're probably right, and I don't understand why the lines stay open during the jury voting.
@Owen
I think your last point is a very interesting one and I do believe it would solve a lot of problems actually!
I know sometime ago there was a Eurovision-related show in Holland that used a similar format. That is, they gave five jury members 8,10 and 12 or something but the public televote had about 60 points to give, no set amounts just given in proportion to the people that had voted.
I really like your idea. The unfortunate part is you're probably to astute and perceptive to ever make it to EBU director P.
Following the result of the 2007 semi final, when countries in Western Europe were seen to have missed out on a spot in the final because all qualifiers came from Central and Eastern Europe, changes were brought forward and a two semi-final system was introduced for the 2008 competition. Earlier this year in Belgrade, the new system was used for the first time. It was widely held as a success, with a fair balance of countries from across Europe taking their places in the final, and wide agreement that the best songs qualified from each semi final.
Has the world gone mad here?
The reason, my dear esctoday people, that in 2007 only Eastern and central countries qualified was because not one but EVERY western song was bland, bad or unoriginal in the extreme, possibly only excepting Andorra, and Ireland, Finland and Germany who were already in the final. Eastern Europe had original songs of extremely high quality - I name you a Georgia, Serbia, Hungary, Slovenia, Bulgaria or even Albania that didnt even qualify!
That is why I believe very firmly Helsinki was by far the best contest up to now (nothing to do with my name btw, I am NOT Finnish or have any connection to the country 
).
But 'widely agreed the best countries qualified' this year?! Not me it isn't!
I regard it as an insult to the effort Belgium, the Netherlands, Bulgaria, San Marino and many others who scored under expectations (Finland, Croatia, Portugal) put into their songs that esctoday would believe that, say, the Swedish, Greek or Armenian song,which in the words of Teräsbetoni 'someone could have written in their lunch breaks', was better quality.
This year, with Russia winning, I think is the first year that people are really getting fed up.
As for this mystery broadcaster that has threathened to pull out, I have a few very big suspicions.
- Germany has been scoring consistently low with high-quality songs (though I didnt like them this year but last year they had everything)
- Switzerland could follow Austria, especially since it's quite a eurosceptic country
- Spain, same low scores, already cancelled their EBU contribution mid-season
But I think it's the BBC. Theyve scored lower than low this year and every year, Terry is quitting, the people are getting fed up. I could believe they would threathen the EBU over the voting system and without the BBC Eurovision would go bankrupt.
Stockholm
I see. Although I think part of the reason why Sanna gained more votes is because Sanna fans started voting like crazy when they saw she was losing to Charlotte during the jury voting, because the lines are open until after the jury have voted aren't they. It would be interesting to see how the votes tallied before the jury scores had been revealed.
Jonny
At the time people seemed to accept the jury's choice. "Hero" was after all the televoters' second favourite. Today, however, most people say that "Empty room" would have been a better choice.
Stockholm
Yes that is a good point. There would be uproar with fans if the public favourite didn't win. On that subject, what was the reaction like in Sweden when Charlotte won due to the jury not the public?
Now we're talking sense... hopefully it won't stay with talking off course.
I agree with Ben
"... one vote per country per phone. You can vote for as many countries as you like, but only once"
Jonny
"I have an idea . . . similar to MF voting"
Although it didn't turn out very well this year as the juries and the televoters chose different winners.
There should be 2 semi-finals 1 for West European countries and 1 for Eastern European countries with the Big-4 and Russia voting in both semi-finals and the countries from the semi-finals should vote in the semi-final they are not participating in. In the the final only the countries that are in the final should vote(Big-4, Russia, 10 qualifiers from SF1 and 10 qualifiers from SF2) and there should also be 9 and 11 points as that will allow countries like United Kingdom, France and Ireland to get lower points (1's, 2's and 3's)from other countries so that they may be able to get slightly above last place. Also Big-4 countries should also get 12 points to start with so they are immune from nul points.
LOL yeah my comment was pretty long! lol
I think the idea of only one vote for one country from one phone is a good idea, but it wouldn't work on its own! Remember people tend to have a mobile fone each now! so a family of Russians in Latvia for example could have 6 votes going to Russia one for the entire family going through the land line, then one for each other five members of the family on each of their mobile phones!
The situation has got to the point now where something as "simple" as restricting the number of votes for a single country is not going to do it!
Also I personally don't think we should be going out to restrict individual people from voting for who they want, or for that matter voting for that country as many times as they want! What my ideas do for example restrict the country as a whole and they would only have restrictions if they didn't send a song good enough to get to the final!
owen your comment was too long for me to read, i lost interest haha. but i like how your thinking for the first 2 bits. think for a jury though it shouold be made up of fans. we know eurovision better than most celebrities.
The thing is so simple, we shouldn't even discuss it further!
50% televoting,
50% expert jury.
that's it!
it seems if a Western European country puts in a weird song (Ireland) they're considered making a farce of the contest, but if an Eastern European country does the same thing (Bosnia & Herz.) they are considered making a BOLD choice
That's not true. I found both songs awful. I don't know who you're talking about the considered one song a farce and the other one bold.
I'm not against televoting but if you go back and look at the juries choice you will see that there wasn't that much neighborly voting as it is now. I randomly looked at some votings of the past and was really surprised that f.ex. Scandinavia doesn't give eachother so many points as it is today (look f.ex. at 1979 or 1990).
In my opinion, jury members decide much more well-considered.
@Sagittarius Si
It's a prejudice that the winner looks like you said (boring ballads etc.) when a jury is voting. It may be the case if the jury is made up by members like it was in earlier years. If it would be a rule that all members of a jury have to be 20 or younger, no boring ballad would win.
I don't see how 1 vote per phone will be the solution. Russian-speakers make up a huge percentage of the televoters in the 3 Baltic states, Ukraine, Belarus, etc so that bias would remain as even with 1 vote each they'll outnumber the rest. Also, more importantly, the EBU will not consider for a minute reducing the money it makes from televoting...
owen has a very good idea, i just hope someone will take note of it, as it makes lots of sense
I was originally inclined to go back to jury voting (preferable 50%-50% public), but it seems to me that just limiting the number of votes per phone line to 1 vote would solve all the problems. Lord knows I'm not from a country that knows how to vote (American), but it was apparent that Western Europe on the whole had better quality songs (i.e. Iceland, Portugal), but still had some bad ones (UK, Belgium, Spain), but it seems if a Western European country puts in a weird song (Ireland) they're considered making a farce of the contest, but if an Eastern European country does the same thing (Bosnia & Herz.) they are considered making a BOLD choice.
Anyway, limit calls to one vote per number, will solve MOST of the problems.
Hallelujah (if it's true). Funny how the EBU kept saying the voting was fair...and now they seem to be changing their tune. Austria pulling out obviously scared them..i'd like to know which other country is threatening to pull out. Anything that smashes the diaspora voting is fine by me...pity a change didn't happen 2 years ago and that it took this disastrous state of affairs to move Stockselius, Erichsen and company.
morgan frayne
That will not be fair because some countries have boders with a lot of countries, others do not border with any. Not all neighbourly countries exercise neighbourly voting; for example, since when were Germany and Poland, or France and Spain, voting buddies? And just supposing a viewer genuinely believe the best song is that from the next door country?
It goes against the spirit of an open contest if you're not allowed to vote for particular entries.
My idea would be have a 33, 33, 33 split in the voting. Televoting will be 33% in the score
Public jury will be 33% in the score
Expert jury will be 33% in the score
I agree with serbija89 on that the best solution would be televoting with 1 vote per 1 phone number. No juries please - then boring balads a la irlandaise and seventies and eighties pop style songs willl be winners again.
But I think the all the participating countries should vote in the final. Otherwise, why the contest would be transmitted by national broadcast companies? If you can not vote, is non-sense.
@flowerofthesouth
We tried rap (at least "Eurovision-style" already and that never worked out for us. I wouldn't mind a rock band if its a proper rock band and not some garagey scruffy indie band. I don't like that kind of music at all.
If I could pick a big name to represent the UK, I would actually go for Katherine Jenkins. =)
First of all..welcome back sheep 
Second...I think that if they just kept it to one vote/per phone, many problems would be solved. You can't tell people 'don't vote for your neighbour' if that's what they want...and I believe that in most cases what we consider as neighbour voting is mainly diaspora voting.
yes 50/50 and i hope the uk have a rapper or rock band next year now that will good.
I am inclined to agree with the idea that there should be a jury that will offer a professional and objective view. A jury specially assembled to judge on song, dress and performance, this will ensure that their opinion is distinct from that of the general public.
I must also say I like Owen Williams' percentage-based idea, but I also think that announcing each country's points that way would take too long and would make us disown the famous and much-loved way the points are currently announced.
I can think of one easy way to eradicate diaspora voting completely, and that is to allow one vote per country per phone. You can vote for as many countries as you like, but only once.
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