Yoji Shinkawa Interview

This the an interview conducted by Konami Computer Entertainment Japan (KCEJ) with Yoji Shinkawa, the art director of Metal Gear Solid series. This interview was originally released in conjunction with Metal Gear Solid 2 Artbook release. Also the last segment of the interview consists of questions from MGS fans that Shinkawa answered.

Konami Computer Entertainment Japan (KCEJ): MGS2 has made a transition from the previous imagination-inspiring design of MGS to the realistic expression approach allowing you to "feel the air." Is there anything you have paid special attention to?

Shinkawa: For MGS, I intentionally worked on designs that would appeal to one's imagination. This was because of the limitations of the PSOne hardware. Even for MGS2, initially, I was going to take the same approach. However, we have changed our approach during the process and decided to add facial expressions. With the previous approach, I could work with my brush pen only. But with this new approach, I had to work on subtle facial expressions and wrinkles. Adding a great amount of thin lines became necessary, making the whole process very tough.

KCEJ: So, one can say that the gems (characters) you have created are products of your hardships. Of all of them, "Raiden" the main character of the Plant Chapter and his girfriend "Rose" are not your typical Metal Gear characters. Can you talk about how they came to life?

Shinkawa: From the very beginning of the planning process, Raiden was to be a "unisexual" character. This was to all both male and female gamers to relate to this character without the appearance being an obstacle. Making players relate to a character from an appearance standpoint might have its pros and cons, but that is what we decided to do. As for Rose, Mr. Kojima requested "an ordinary person who looks intelligent." Coming up with someone ordinary was really difficult.

KCEJ: The rough sketches in the artbook show that you have gone through a lot of trial-and-error.

Shinkawa: Yes, you can see just by looking at the artbook. (laughs)

KCEJ: Just by buying the artbook. (laughs)

Shinkawa: Exactly. (laughs)

KCEJ: The attractive characters have come to life after Shinkawa's suffering. On the contrary, there are some characters that "did not come to life." We can take a look at some of them in your rough sketches. Can you talk about them?

Shinkawa: "Doc" was the developer of the Arsenal Gear AI. He disappeared right away.

"Oldman" was a member of Dead Cell and tactical genius who has lived over 100 years. He did survive for a relatively long time. (laughs)

"Chinaman" was a Dead Cell member as well. He was a close combat specialist who uses secret Oriental techniques. He was the Psycho Mantis type, so to say. His close combat skills were not much different from those of Vamp with his knives. That's why he was "absorbed" by Vamp. Vamp's running on water and up walls are remnants of "Chinaman."

KCEJ: Of all these unseen characters, we have recognized this guy in bomb squad gear. Ocean plant in New York, his name being "Ed." This is "Ed" the "Ed" we know?

Shinkawa: That's right. He is "Ed Brown" from "POLICENAUTS" in his NYPD days. He was supposed to be in the bomb disposal event, but that would mean he would die in the game. It would have been interesting to see him in this parallel world, but he ended up being dropped.

KCEJ: Well, all these characters that "never made it", along with so much more, can all be seen in this artbook which will be released soon. Can you please give readers of this interview a message?

Shinkawa: Last time we did not get a hang of how to create an artbook. We ended up spending so much time putting it together. This time, we knew what exactly we had to do, and this allowed us to work on the details. To be more specific, we spent extra care of the "tempo" of flipping through pages. We have worked hard on the quality of paper as well so that you can enjoy the artbook not only with your vision but also with the sense of touch. We are showing bits of the artbook on the web as the MGS2 ART GALLERY. But I would like you to appreciate the artbook by holding the actual artbook with your hands. If MGS2 is digital entertainment, this artbook is analogue entertainment. I really hope that this opportunity is experienced by as many people as possible.

KCEJ: THE ART OF METAL GEAR SOLID 2 has finally been released today. Today, we would like you, Mr. Shinkawa, to talk about the artbook while looking at it. Let's start with the front cover which you worked on just for this artbook.

Shinkawa: The first thing you see of this artbook turns out to be black. I tried to express the hidden parts of Metal Gear as if it is hidden in the darkness of the night. The illustration is black, done on black paper.

KCEJ: Part 1 of the book is "Color Illustrations Part 1." The first half of this section consists of image illustrations of the early stages of the development of MGS2. The second half has illustrations for the package and magazine front covers.

Shinkawa: This Snake is what I worked on to realize the image of Snake for the 2000 E3 premier event. This is one of the very first illustrations.

KCEJ: Last time you talked abot how you work on the details of characters. Anything about that for this illustration?

Shinkawa: I try not to think about such things too much. I do give the staff a photograph of someone as reference material so that the staff can work on the eye when modeling the character. When designing the character, I try not to think about details.

KCEJ: Next is Raiden the other main character. When did you draw this?

Shinkawa: This was reference material for Mr. Harry Gregson-Williams and Mr. Kyle Cooper when we asked them to work on MGS2. When I was filing illustrations that I did to realize the image of this character, I found out that I did not have a single illustration in color. That's why I did this illustration as the front cover of the file itself. So this was the front cover of the file with presentation materials.

KCEJ: He carries a shotgun...

Shinkawa: Initially I thought it would be cool if he could use one. (laughs)

KCEJ: Next -- the 3 Dead Cell members. Very image-oriented.

Shinkawa: Yes, I drew it to realize my image.

KCEJ: In the initial image materials, you use yellow and purple colors. Any reason for this?

Shinkawa: Why did I do this? (laughs)

When I paint.. when I create things, I always end up using these colors. I probably like yellow and purple colors.

It's more like a habit. "My favorite colors" ...that's really it. (laughs)

KCEJ: Would it be the case that you tried to match them to the image color of the Plant Chapter?

Shinkawa: If you remember, the game of MGS1 took place at night with dark colors. The Tanker Chapter of MGS2 does the same. With the Plant Chapter, we wanted to change this and introduce a sunny beautiful atmosphere. We wanted something that was "not Metal Gear."

KCEJ: Next page.

Metal Gear RAY... When did you...

Shinkawa: I don't remember. (laughs)

When was this?

If I remember correctly, I was told that we were going to create postcards.

This is a very early image illustration. The tail is more like a -- needle. (laughs)
A lot has changed since this illlustration.

Comparing the current design with this might be quite interesting.

KCEJ: Let's move on. This red Snake we got to see quite often.

Shinkawa: This was a pair with RAY on the previous page. It was for our postcards. It looks like it is out of position a bit. I added effects so that it looks out of position. (laughs) I also paid attention to how to make him look older. Every time I draw Snake, I try to give the illustration a "sneaking" look. But this is never easy. I want him to look like he is infiltrating and is coming out of the shadow.

KCEJ: Next is Snake again, but with electric bolts.

Shinkawa: I drew this after the opening demo of the game was completed. This was drawn especially for "Konami Magazine" which is given out for free in Japan.

KCEJ: It seems like there is more detail added to Snake's facial expression.

Shinkawa: That's probably because I worked on this while watching the polygon demo and the image was simply there in front of me.

KCEJ: The next one must be fimiliar to our American friends -- the illustration used on the package of the US version.

Shinkawa: The monochrome Snake on the right page I drew for E3. Originally, the page position was different and the right edge was white. But then I ended up changing the position.

When you look at them as a series, Snake hides, comes out, and shoots. (laughs).

With this game, I did many monochrome illustrations. Maybe I'm not good at working with colors. My illustrations are all red or all blue or something like that. Doing monochrome ones are the easiest.

I don't have to think about colors. (laughs)

KCEJ: Next is Raiden, Snake, and RAY. This was for the front cover of the Japanese game magazine "The PlayStation 2."

Shinkawa: This was one of the covers when we did front covers for all PS2-only magazines in Japan at the same time. Very "Japanese", isn't it? (laughs) The background texture has the Japanese paper look. What I did was paint think black ink on regular copying paper and then take photocopies of that. Normally, I do not care much about the texture of the paper for my illustrations. But this time I wanted the "material" look. It turned out good and I ended up using it. I used this texture quite often.

KCEJ: Let's move on. The illustration for the Japanese game package.

Shinkawa: I used the texture paper mentioned above. I did not want the colors to be too dark. I wanted to the illustration to have an incomplete look. That's why I made it look as if I suddenly stopped drawing. I wanted people to look at the white spots and think that I should have finished painting. Always completing an illustrations is fine, but that does not leave any room for the viewer to do any imagining. This concept is similar to the textures used on the character models in the previous game.

KCEJ: The next illustration was used as the "reversible jacket."

Shinkawa: People asked me "What kind of jacket can we get to wear?" (laughs)

KCEJ: When we say "jacket" we mean the cover of the package, right? (laughs) Snake is printed on the front, and if you take it out and flip it, you get Raiden. The layout of the illustrations contrast the Tanker and Plant Chapters -- a contrast of Snake and Raiden.

Shinkawa: Originally I drew them separately.

KCEJ: Really?

Shinkawa: No one asked me to work on reversible illustrations. Snake was drawn for the cover of an American magazine.

KCEJ: So Snake came first and when you were told that we were doing a reversible cover, you then drew Raiden in contrast.

Shinkawa: That's right. Since there was some time between these two illustrations, it was hard to match the colors. I had to recall what I did last time. "What on earth was I thinking last time?" (laughs)

KCEJ: It seems like you have left some white spots and stopped drawing with this one as well.

Shinkawa: (Pointing at Raiden's right arm) Here, this line didn't have to be here. I drew too many. Even here at his right thigh.

KCEJ: Next is Ocelot's illustration.

Shinkawa: This I did for EDGE -- a UK game magazine. I really had a hard time trying to draw back then. "What am I going to do?"

KCEJ: You couldn't draw Ocelot? Or you couldn't draw in general?

Shinkawa: And I ended up with this. (laughs)

(Using his fingers) How big is this?

KCEJ: About 8 cm?

Shinkawa: Yes, I drew a 5 cm X 8 cm Ocelot. (laughs)

I enlarged it, raised the resolution and added colors.

KCEJ: Any modifications?

Shinkawa: Not at all.

It looks like I used a big brush and did it quickly.

Actually I used a very small brush -- not a dynamic work at all. (laughs)

KCEJ: A 5 cm X 8 cm illustration...

Listening to you, we get the impression that you take interesting drawing approaches.

Shinkawa: Interesting... more like "inconsistent." I get bored easily. (laughs)

KCEJ: (laughs)

Shinkawa: If I stick to one style, I'm afraid that's all I'll end up being able to do.

KCEJ: So, Yoji Shinkawa keeps on evolving.

Shinkawa: No, it's more like going this way, that way, going and coming back...

KCEJ: Next page. Raiden.

Shinkawa: This was for a magazine front cover.

KCEJ: This looks very different from your other works. You see pinkish particles flowing from the upper right. Cherry blossom?

Shinkawa: Cherry blossom... or maybe fire sparks...

KCEJ: This really adds a Japanese look.

Shinkawa: Yes, like wood block printing style.

KCEJ: The Japanese paper-ish background -- did you use the texture you talked about earlier?

Shinkawa: That's right.

I wanted to simulate wood block printing style paintings. I wanted to do an actual wood block printing style painting but did not have the chance to. So it's a fake wood block painting. (laughs)

I used thin ink. The ink portion -- if I scan it and use it as data, it does not look like wood block printing. So I took a black and white photocopy of the original illustration and then took this rougher image and scanned it. That's how you get this roughness. I almost never scan the original illustration directly. I almost always take a photocopy of it.

KCEJ: Does the original illustration look very detailed -- delicate?

Shinkawa: Not really delicate. More...raw.

It looks like a filter has been applied. You can do this with Photoshop, but I wanted to use a more analogue means to add this effect. And running a photocopy makes it more suitable for the digital means to follow.

KCEJ: Here we see Raiden with a sword.

This was used for the front cover of the Japanese soundtrack.

Shinkawa: Here again I took a photocopy.

The original illustration is done with thin ink. Very light. Gray.

When "raw", it simply looks gray. This roughness -- as if it is like stone -- is something you get when taking a photocopy.

KCEJ: Next is an image illustration from E3. This reminds you of Snake and the Ninja from the previous game. Who did you have in mind when doing this?

Shinkawa: Raiden. I gave it a blur, with is skull mask on. This I did with the Photoshop brush tool and not with a real brush. I had to do this illustration quickly. I did not do too much thinking for this.

KCEJ: Next. An illustration for a poster in Japan. Dead Cell, Solidus, and RAY.

Shinkawa: "Something very black", I was told when asked to do this one.

Snake posters and Raiden posters seemed very white. So I guess they wanted something in black for contrast. Black and white posters at retailers would stand out more than things with colors.

Black -- evil. These guys are villains, so I used black. That simple. (laughs)

I do quite a few of these.

KCEJ: You did?

Shinkawa: I redid this one over and over again. Probably 50 times.

KCEJ: 50 times!

Shinkawa: You know what? I ended up using the 3rd one... (laughs)

And if I may talk about techniques I use, I use a regular retouch pen.

KCEJ: That's what you did with the postcard shown in the previous artbook.

Shinkawa: Yes! That's when I came up with this technique. (laughs)

KCEJ: Carving into the black background with a retouch pen, right?

Shinkawa: Just simply drawing normal lines with it.

That's how I worked on Fortune's face.

Since I carve into regular A3 size copying paper, I do a lot of damage to the paper. (laughs)

RAY in the background -- I drew that separately and combined it with the others.

KCEJ: The next is the mass production model of RAY.

Shinkawa: I drew this while on the train. (laughs)

KCEJ: ...That's it? (laughs)

Shinkawa: That's it. (laughs)

KCEJ: Let's keep on moving.

Snake and Raiden -- this was for the first soundtrack.

Very MANGAish, isn't it?

Shinkawa: Really?

KCEJ: The eyes are pretty big.

Shinkawa: Like MANGA for girls? (laughs)

I actually draw eyelashes when drawing Snake.

KCEJ: You can't tell because of the shadows on his face. (laughs)

Next are the animations of the Otacon software and cute Snake.

Shinkawa: Otacon was done by Mr. Nakamura who worked on the controller vibrations of the game. He is a dot matrix graphics master. He draws really well.

Snake was for the package of MGS2 Kubrick dolls.

First I was told they did not need any of my illustrations. Then I was told to do some.

I worked on this one while picking my nose. (laughs)

On the box it is printed in silver. So the data is monochrome.

KCEJ: Do you draw in this style often?

Shinkawa: I used to. But not recently. Very much like comedy MANGA.

KCEJ: On the next page you have realistic Snake.

Shinkawa: What was this used for? I don't remember. I don't know. (laugh)

KCEJ: I think you...

Shinkawa: No, I DON'T KNOW! (laughs)

KCEJ: You happened to... (laughs)

Shinkawa: I'm telling you. I didn't do this. Not me! (laughs)

KCEJ: (laughs)

Shinkawa: But really... what was this for? (thinking hard)

KCEJ: Well, let's move on.

3 mass-produced RAYs on folded pages. This was used for the soundtrack.

Shinkawa: This was used with monochrome colors. So I did not do too much painting.

The data was on with colors by then I changed the data to monochrome colors.

Since we can use colors here, we are showing it as it originally was.

KCEJ: Next is the RAY illustration used in the E3 pamphlet that opened up.

Shinkawa: This is actually much bigger. The original illustration is very big too. I drew this before the Metal Gear model was completed. "It flies! It's flying!" (laughs) People might have thought the next Metal Gear was going to fly.

KCEJ: OK, the last one of this first section. This was for front covers for two consecutive weeks.

Shinkawa: I was asked for a MANGA style illustration.

Do you remember my works from the previous artbook with American/French comic style cuts? The editor of this magazine saw that illustration in the previous artbook and wanted something similar -- with similar cuts. But as I said before, I do get bored. I did not want to repeat what I have done before. There is an abstract artist that I like very much called Piet Mondrian. I wanted to use cuts (boxes) like one of his works -- "Composition." It would have been better without any illustration. The boxes filled with red and blue colors only. (laughs)

KCEJ: I guess you really can't do that when you were asked for an illustration. (laughs)

Shinkawa: I know. That's why I applied the illustration.

KCEJ: Next. Oops! This is the end of the 1st section.

Let's continue with the 2nd section.

Shinkawa: This interview is taking a long time...(one hour has elapsed since the beginning of this interview)

Well then, let's speed things up!

KCEJ: This is Part 2 of the artbook with character settings.

Shinkawa: 3D diagram used for actual game development and an image illustration to convey the image of the character.

KCEJ: You really do give a lot of detail to the setting illustrations, don't you?

Shinkawa: What I did was gave these to the designer along with photocopies of photos of pouches and camo uniforms.

KCEJ: After Snake, Pliskin, and Otacon comes Emma's page. You have written down "morphs to SD in 3D polygons" (laughs)

Shinkawa: That would have been really grotesque. (laughs)

KCEJ: That would have been really weird. (laughs)

Shinkawa: I know. I'd really love to do that. (laughs) Very weird or revolutionary. (laughs)

KCEJ: OK, next is Raiden. Mesh patterns. It says you can see through his underwear. His suit is really tight too.

Shinkawa: I wanted something sexy...even erotic. A very unisexual sexiness.

KCEJ: I have heard that drawing the contours of a young character is difficult. Is this true?

Shinkawa: Not really. You'll see some rough sketches later on, and I had some trouble over the new sneaking suit design initially. Once we decided on the "bonelike" concept, it was quick from there. The breathing apparatus is like a "scroll". You know, ninjas and scrolls.

KCEJ: You haven't given too much detail to Rose in the setting artwork.

Shinkawa: When she appears at the very end (of the game), Raiden is wearing black gear. So I made her wear a light color suit and give her black hair in contrast.

KCEJ: Next are the Colonel and Ames.

Shinkawa: With the Colonel, it's only his chest and up.

KCEJ: The come Peter Stillman and President Johnson. Did you struggle when working on the setting of the President? Like giving him gear allowing him to do a back flip. (laughs)

Shinkawa: Back flip? He wasn't supposed to do a back flip initially.

KCEJ: Which character did you have trouble with the most when working on the setting?

Shinkawa: Fatman. He's fat, you know? He had to be fat and good looking. How can I make a fat person cool, I asked myself. Raven from MGS was big but not fat. When someone is fat, he looks cute. I had to come up with a way to make him cool instead of cute. An actual bomb blast suit comes with nothing else, but I applied a lot of extras on the front.

KCEJ: Why is he wearing inline skates?

Shinkawa: That was Mr. Kojima's idea. He said "Inline skates!" Fat but quick.

KCEJ: You've been staring at Olga's page for a while now. Any special memories with Olga?

Shinkawa: Olga is the first character I drew after Snake. I thought the stripe shirt Russian soldiers wear in reality would look good on her. And I made her wear it, and it did look good. People say that the Ninja in MGS2 is fatter than the Ninja in MGS. Of course the Ninja in MGS2 is fatter, she is wearing her uniform inside! (laughs) The Ninja in MGS was a cyborg!

KCEJ: Next is Fortune -- the fighting housewife.

Shinkawa: I made a suggestion to include an African-American lady in the game.

KCEJ: For what reason?

Shinkawa: I get to go to the US and see a lot of African-American women. They really look cool -- actually beautiful. I wanted to show that in the game.

KCEJ: She is wearing shades here, unlike in the game.

Shinkawa: In the beginning, all of them wore sunglasses. They were supposed to remove them right before battle. Then we saw "The Matrix" and everyone in that movie were wearing sunglasses. We didn't want to do something someone else has already done.

KCEJ: Then comes "Antarctic Penguin Snake."

Shinkawa: There really was no use for this in the game. It was supposed to be an item in the game that allows to stay in water without breathing at all. "Based on what king of logic?" is the big question. (laughs) But it would have been cool. But then including this design would have been extra work that would not be worth it.

KCEJ: Next is Vamp.

Shinkawa: When he opens up his coat, it looks like the wings of a bat.

KCEJ: How about Ocelot?

Shinkawa: Originaly, his arm was supposed to be a cyborg arm. But then I was told that his arm was Liquid's. If I were told that, I have no choice. (laugh) What could be more fun than the arm being Liquid's! I like his clothes in the Plant Chapter. It's horseriding gear. He wears a gunbelt with a suit. Mr. Hikozo Ito, who is mentioned in the talk (at the end of the artbook), did a photo with a man in a suit with a saber. I really liked how they didn't match.

KCEJ: Solidus -- his snake arm suit is really something

Shinkawa: I guess this is normal for Americans. X-MEN, Doctor Octopus.

KCEJ: Did you have to suffer to "give birth" to Solidus?

Shinkawa: There was the joy to give birth to him. I love powered suits. I enjoyed drawing it.

KCEJ: Are there things that you drew but did not make it in the game?

Shinkawa: I really wanted to have more powered suits in the game. But then the game would no longer be Metal Gear. When the world of Metal Gear pursues reality, I came up with the exoskeleton instead.

KCEJ: As for the mechanical setting, you said you like powered suits and mechs. Is this because of "GUNDAM"?

Shinkawa: No, it goes back even earlier. "MAJINGER Z" and "CONBATLER V".

KCEJ: Do you want to come up with robots that merge?

Shinkawa: That would be tough. Doing powered suits would be tough too.

KCEJ: Would you like to include them in a game?

Shinkawa: Not really.

KCEJ: What was tough about drawing Metal Gear?

Shinkawa: Its joints. With REX, the joints looked like they were parts of construction machines. But with RAY, which is a robot that goes under water, I wanted to come up with joints you've never seen before. I first thought of a bunch of discs forming a chain mail like armor, with the discs sliding when RAY moves. I thought it would give RAY a grotesque look. But when expressing all this with polygons, it would be a problem. They are all circles, and when they are drawn as the texture, I was told that "the circles, when the joints elongate, would stretch and become ovals." I wanted to use a lot of discs to fill in any gaps, but I ended up getting rid of them. Also, RAY originally came with a tail. But since there were too many joints, that fell through. With REX, I thought too much of polygons, saying to myself that "polygongs must make up squares." This ended up governing the design of REX. With RAY, I tried not to think about this at all. I thought of these joints and a streamline shape armor.

KCEJ: You really work on the details of the setting of the cockpit, don't you?

Shinkawa: The same is true with the modeling too, you know. You only see this in a few cuts (in the game). Please pay extra attention (when seeing these cuts). I just love the idea that this old guy with a mustache is controlling this really complicated robot. (laughs)

KCEJ: How about Arsenal Gear?

Shinkawa: I had to do a lot of thinking for Arsenal Gear. How can I make it look gigantic? I tried not to give much detail and left it very smooth like the surface of a submarine to make it look huge. It does have some grooves, though.

KCEJ: Many consumers say that they wanted to fight Arsenal.

Shinkawa: How on earth can yo fight it! (laughs)

KCEJ: You've done a lot with the setting of RAY.

Shinkawa: This RAY on the bottom left of page 96 -- I drew it on a whiteboard, took a digital photo of it and turned it into digital data. This one is huge. 1 meter by 1 meter. (laughs)

KCEJ: 1 meter by 1 meter! (laughs)

Shinkawa: Shinkawa: That's right. (laughs)

KCEJ: The next is -- stage settings.

Shinkawa: This is about half of all stage settings. The rest was done by designer Noguchi. I drew the Tanker Chapter settings while looking at photos and other reference materials. But with the Plant Chapter, I wanted to give it a more Sci Fi look. There are no retinal scanner doors around us, you know. Something not totally Sci Fi but a little more realistic -- I guess that's what Metal Gear is.

KCEJ: What did you find tough doing?

Shinkawa: I had to draw a lot. Another things was the process. The Tanker Chapter is realistic, and the Plant Chapter is one step away from a Sci Fi world. Then at the end of the game your are brought back to reality. This process is similar to that of MGS in which you start out and stay in a dark world and at the end come out in broad daylight.

KCEJ: Part 3 of the book is ILLUSTRATIONS: PART 2.

Shinkawa: I've been working on settings for such a long time then, and I finally had to work on illustrations again. But it was not easy to return to illustrations. I was almost crying while doing these. "Aaaahhhh!!!" (laughs)

KCEJ: After character illustrations are Metal Gear illustrations from the Game Boy game.

Shinkawa: The character designer of this game is Ikuya Nakamura -- the "Vibration Master" of MGS2. I was asked to do illustrations based on his designs.

KCEJ: How did you come up with Metal Gear Gander?

Shinkawa: When I joined the company, I was told that we were developing Metal Gear. I then started designing a lot of Metal Gears. So I used one of these old designs.

KCEJ: Part 4 is rough sketches.

Shinkawa: This interview is too long! (laughs)

KCEJ: I'm sorry. (laughs)

When let's skip rough sketches. We've already talked about them in Segment 1 of these interviews. (laughs)

Shinkawa: Are you sure? (laughs)

KCEJ: The end of the book is a talk with Mr. Takato Yamamoto.

I've heard that you respect Mr. Yamamoto very much. What was it like meeting him in person?

Shinkawa: People say this about me, "I thought you were a hard person to talk to." The same was true with Mr. Yamamoto. He turned out to be a person very easy to talk to. He was not intimidating at all. UKIYO-E (Japanese wood block printing art) is art showing people's lives of the time. In that sense, doing game illustrations and designing characters is the same thing. We go in different directions, but I share the feeling that we are doing the same thing. The same is true with Mr. Yamamoto, myself, Mr. Hikozo Ito, and Beardsley too. We illustrators as a whole are the same. Not exactly artists, but more public-oriented.

KCEJ: At last -- the artbook is now on sale. Can you please give us your last thoughts?

Shinkawa: The book isn't some great "artbook." But you do get to see parts of the game-developing process. Those who like the game will get to enjoy the game even more.

KCEJ: It will be great to get E-mails of people's comments on the book.

Shinkawa: Maybe we should use those comments in our next interview.

KCEJ: That's a great idea! Let's do that. Thank you very much for doing this very long interview today.