Rainbow Crew is an ongoing interview series that celebrates the best LGBTQ+ representation on screen. Each instalment showcases talent working on both sides of the camera, including queer creatives and allies to the community.
Next up, we're speaking to Doctor Who casting director Andy Pryor CDG, CSA.
There's no show quite like Doctor Who and one of the reasons why is no other show recasts their lead so frequently. In fact, regular recasting is core to the DNA of Doctor Who. But how do you find someone new and exciting to take over, who still manages to retain the essence of everyone's favourite Time Lord?
Throw in the revolving settings which demand a new cast of characters each week, and you've got what might be the hardest casting job in TV.
It's a good thing then that Doctor Who's casting director, Andy Pryor CDG/CSA, is so brilliant at what he does. Many showrunners have come and gone in the new era, but Pryor has been there throughout, casting all the Doctors from Christopher Eccleston and Ncuti Gatwa to everyone in between for almost two decades now.
At this thrilling juncture in Doctor Who's history, Digital Spy caught up with Pryor to discuss new additions to the cast such as Yasmin Finney and Nathaniel Curtis as well as David Tennant's return and the moment he knew Ncuti Gatwa was the one.
What goes into casting a new Doctor?
The process has varied every time, really. You always want someone unexpected. You always want to try something new, an actor who contrasts with what's gone before yet still brings those essential qualities that the Doctor has, which all of the actors who play them have in common. It's about surprise, and it's about bringing a new energy to the show.
When we started out, we were keen for it to be someone who was a bit of a name, but not a name you would expect and people thought we'd perhaps go for someone from the comedy and entertainment world, which could have worked — it could have been fun — but we wanted a proper actor. And that's sort of set the tone. We've always wanted really good actors rather than people who are just known for one thing.
Was there any particular Doctor who was tricky to cast? Perhaps one incarnation had a tougher vibe to nail down, or maybe you were just swamped with so many great choices for one era in particular?
Well, I'd say that every time it's been a challenge. But a good one. It's like solving a puzzle.
In each case, either there's been somebody we wanted to pursue, whether that's a small group of people that we were looking at, or a long list that we're looking at. The conversations that happen around that before you get into the audition stage tend to kind of focus our minds, focus the team's mind.
I wouldn't say any of them have been problematic. It's just been an enjoyable puzzle to solve.
The announcement of a new Doctor is huge every time. Do you feel pressure living up to those high expectations and intense scrutiny?
You get used to this really. You become a little bit immune to it. What you don't become immune to is the secrecy around it and the fear of people finding out, worrying about leaks.
I say this a lot, but I'm so used to keeping secrets that I often keep them longer than I need to. I'll be keeping something secret and discover a press release has gone out on that something two months before.
If you've made a confident choice, then you know it's going to work and usually, we'll announce quite some time ahead of people seeing them on screen. You take the time to get it right. And I think we have such a great team and have had such great teams on the show that everybody's so focused on getting it right.
One of the best additions to these new specials has been Yasmin Finney. Can you talk us through the process of casting her as Rose?
Russell wrote Rose as a trans teenager, and obviously, that field is limited in terms of the number of people who would be right for that part, who want to act and have any sort of experience, but we met everybody we could find.
Yasmin was only 18 at the time. She's a couple of years older than the character, but obviously, we do that all the time in casting because the experience is important. Yasmin was lovely and she did such a great audition. She came and met myself and Rachel Talalay, the director, and Vicky [Delow], our producer. She did a great recall. And that was that.
She gave a really lovely, I think quite heartfelt and understated performance.
It was such a great surprise to see Nathaniel Curtis pop up as Isaac Newton at the start of the second special. You all kept that secret very well!
Because it's a brief but important moment, you can get an actor in and out quite quickly, with parts like that. That was Russell's idea, actually.
We had talked about trying to get Nathaniel in the show at some point and I think it's a sort of rather cheeky, but fun interpretation of Isaac Newton. You know, it's not a historical drama [Laughs]. Let's just have some fun with it.
Nathaniel was very game. He's a fan of the show. Such a lovely guy, and he had a great time.
There's been a backlash from so-called "fans" of Doctor Who in regard to these particular castings, that they're too "woke", for want of a better word. You've engaged a bit with this discussion online, but I wondered if you had anything else to add on this response to castings such as these?
It's sad that we're in a time where people villainise minorities, This sort of chatter, I'm very good at kind of tuning it out. And I'm also very, very happy to block people on Twitter. I don't really have any time for bigotry at all.
It then becomes even more important to give people a voice and for people to be represented, especially for young people growing up who might be trans or from any minority. If they can see themselves on screen, then that can be a huge lifeline for some people. That can make them feel part of the world, which indeed they are.
Social media is a bit of a dangerous place because I think people get sucked into saying things that I don't know that they truly believe? It just becomes a game for them. Unfortunately, real life isn't a game, and I think it's important to stand up for people who are marginalised.
Growing up as a gay man, I'm as aware as anybody else of how this stuff makes you feel when you see it. How that negativity can affect you. I don't really think anyone should have to go through that.
Thank you for such an eloquent response. It's a frustrating, difficult topic to deal with.
It's an important thing for me. It's an important thing for Russell and the whole Doctor Who team.
There are so many ways of telling a story and the more you can introduce other ideas and other kinds of people, the more exciting it is.
Absolutely. And I feel like that inclusive spirit is so true to Doctor Who anyway. The show has always been forward-thinking and progressive in that way, so it's really nice that in 2023, Doctor Who can embody that now more than ever.
You're absolutely right. It always has been a show about people "outside of the norm".
From day one, really. So, we're just carrying that tradition on in a more modern way.
Nothing embodies that better than the casting of Ncuti Gatwa. He was obviously incredible in Sex Education, but what did you see in him when it came to casting the new Doctor? Can you talk us through his casting process?
I met Ncuti when he was very young, straight out of drama school. I've on-and-off followed his career. When he landed in Sex Education with a bang, he really made me sit up and notice him.
When we came to cast this Doctor, we auditioned several people and then there was some that couldn't come on the same day as others. So he came in another day and just kind of blew us away.
I knew he'd be good, but you never really know until you see it. You can see brilliant actors for a role and it just might not work. Then an actor comes in and just owns it straightaway. That's exactly what Ncuti did.
We were there thinking, "Oh, wow, that's him. That's it." It was just a simple case of giving the best audition and being the right fit in terms of his energy and demeanour, his kind of zest for the role.
And that's what you'll see soon enough. That's what he brings to his version of the Doctor, that kind of energy and that fizz. You can't really direct that into somebody. They've either got it or they haven't.
Ncuti's casting came as a surprise, he wasn't a big name thrown around much by fans, but once the announcement was made, it just felt so obviously right. Like, "Why didn't we all think of him sooner?"
That's part of this job in that you sort of think around, I don't want to say "a problem", but you think around a conundrum in as many ways as you can. You're sort of forensic about where you're looking.
I'll think about hundreds of names and then whittle it down and end up with a list and think, "Oh, yeah, that's a good list. They're on here somewhere," and then suddenly, someone else pops into my head.
That happens frequently in this job because it's about having a hunch that someone might bring something amazing to a role. That's part of the fun of the job.
When did you know Ncuti was the one? When did it click for you and the team?
I think it was at that first audition, to be honest. There were some amazing people that we saw in that process and people who we would happily have cast. It felt like a light going on, really, when he came in and read for the part.
It was a scene that Russell had written specifically for audition purposes, so it was a real kind of workout for an actor. There's a lot going on in it and you can see elements of the character as it was going to be in one long scene.
It's a real test of an actor's skill and versatility and stamina, really, but he got every beat and was also able to play around with it, make it his own, rather than just assuming there was one way of doing it.
That's what you need with any actor playing the Doctor. You need an actor who is going to be able to turn on a penny and make bold choices about how they play the role.
You mentioned that other brilliant actors were in the running as well. Can you shed more light on that? We totally appreciate that might not be possible.
Sadly not. That's the thing about this process. It has to be so secretive because of course, actors come in and they make themselves very vulnerable in an audition situation. You have to respect that, so discretion is very important.
And also, you may come back to one of those actors later on. You never know. That's a nice thing about this job. I meet actors for things all the time who don't get the job, but I don't forget them and later on, they might get another job. An even better job, sometimes, so it's never a waste of time.
I've been approached so many times about things like sharing audition footage, but it's such a vulnerable, intimate situation. In order for it to work, it needs to be private.
LGBTQ+ fans are also excited to see what Pete MacHale will bring to the show when his character arrives in the new season. Is there anything you can tell us about his casting?
Pete's participation is no secret, I know. I can't remember quite why it's no secret, but I remember that coming out [Laughs].
But it's just a case of being open in your casting. We just saw a selection of people. We saw cis men, we saw trans men, and it was about the best audition. That was that really, and I didn't even discuss it with the team. It's just Pete was the best person for that particular role.
Looking back, is there a special film or show that's particularly resonated with you personally as a queer person?
Even though I had no direct knowledge of living a life like that, I always remember watching The Naked Civil Servant with John Hurt playing Quentin Crisp. The reason for that being that the character and the man himself was so utterly himself and unapologetic about who he was.
Even though he was eccentric, and possibly quite difficult and possibly made some bad decisions at times, it was that idea of a character who didn't really care what people thought of him and just lived his life the way he wanted to live it. I remember finding that very inspiring.
That always stuck with me, that people who are true to themselves, without being cruel, can just live their lives the way they want to. There's something to be said for that, for anyone growing up, anyone LGBTQ+.
Do you have any advice for queer people who might be struggling with their identity, especially given everything that's going on in the current political climate?
The most important thing, going from my own personal experience, is seeking out people like you, yourself, knowing that you're not alone. There are a lot of people that have been going through, and have gone through, what you're experiencing. Even though you may feel very lonely and vulnerable, it is possible to find a community where you can feel safe and where you can be yourself.
That's why I think it's important to do work that engages with this and why I enjoy working on things that have LGBTQ+ characters and themes in them. If you seek out that work, and watch as much as possible, then that will surely help you feel less alone.
Doctor Who's 60th anniversary specials 'The Star Beast' and 'Wild Blue Yonder' are available to stream on BBC iPlayer, with the final special 'The Giggle' set to air on December 9.
After teaching in England and South Korea, David turned to writing in Germany, where he covered everything from superhero movies to the Berlin Film Festival.
In 2019, David moved to London to join Digital Spy, where he could indulge his love of comics, horror and LGBTQ+ storytelling as Deputy TV Editor, and later, as Acting TV Editor.
David has spoken on numerous LGBTQ+ panels to discuss queer representation and in 2020, he created the Rainbow Crew interview series, which celebrates LGBTQ+ talent on both sides of the camera via video content and longform reads.
Beyond that, David has interviewed all your faves, including Henry Cavill, Pedro Pascal, Olivia Colman, Patrick Stewart, Ncuti Gatwa, Jamie Dornan, Regina King, and more — not to mention countless Drag Race legends.
As a freelance entertainment journalist, David has bylines across a range of publications including Empire Online, Radio Times, INTO, Highsnobiety, Den of Geek, The Digital Fix and Sight & Sound.
