Nov. 7: The Cubs have announced that they have officially picked up Miley’s option, securing his services for the 2022 campaign.
Nov. 5: The Cubs announced Friday that they’ve claimed left-hander Wade Miley off waivers from the Reds. Cincinnati general manager Nick Krall said just two days ago the the team needed to “align our payroll to our resources,” and the surprising decision to waive Miley, who has an eminently reasonable $10MM club option for the 2022 season, further foreshadows the team’s direction this offseason.
By placing Miley on waivers rather than declining his option, the Reds spared themselves a $1MM buyout (while also strengthening a division-rival club’s rotation). Given the fact that Miley was claimed at that $10MM price point, it stands to reason that the Reds could have exercised the option and found a trade partner later in the offseason.
Krall tells reporters that he explored the market for Miley over the past couple of weeks and found no interest (Twitter link via the Cincinnati Enquirer’s Bobby Nightengale). That said, we saw last offseason that Brad Hand went unclaimed on waivers at $10MM, only to eventually land a $10.5MM guarantee in free agency. It’s certainly plausible (if not likely, based on the Cubs claiming Miley with the No. 7 waiver priority) that a team would have eventually shown interest once the option was exercised. However, it seems the ownership wanted no part of either paying the buyout on the option, paying down any of Miley’s would-be salary, or simply being “stuck” with a $10MM left-hander who pitched 163 innings of 3.37 ERA ball in 2021.
It’s the second straight season that the Reds are signaling a clear intention to reduce payroll. The Reds’ $126MM Opening Day mark in 2019 took the team to a new franchise-record, and ownership committed to an even larger sum in advance of the 2020 season, when the Reds would’ve had a payroll north of $150MM were it not for the Covid-19 shutdown and the eventual prorating of salaries.
Last offseason was punctuated by a series of Reds moves designed to reduce expenditures, most notably dumping Raisel Iglesias’ salary on the Angels and non-tendering both Archie Bradley and Curt Casali. The Reds spoke of “reallocating” those resources at the time of those moves but largely sat out the free-agent market despite needs at shortstop and (due to the Iglesias/Bradley decisions) in the bullpen. The early-offseason decisions to waive Miley and trade catcher Tucker Barnhart (who had a club option of his own) pair with Krall’s comments to date to portend a rough winter for Reds fans.
With Miley now out of the rotation in Cincinnati, starting roles will fall to Sonny Gray, Luis Castillo, Tyler Mahle and Vladimir Gutierrez. Krall listed lefty Reiver Sanmartin and prospects Nick Lodolo and Hunter Greene as candidates for the fifth spot in the rotation (Twitter link via C. Trent Rosecrans of The Athletic), at least indirectly suggests the team will first look inward to replace Miley’s innings. Of course, given the mounting context associated with these moves, it stands to reason that any of Gray, Castillo or Mahle could be moved this offseason.
As for the Cubs, the sudden acquisition of Miley no doubt qualifies as a highly unexpected but extremely welcome surprise to begin their offseason dealings. President of baseball operations Jed Hoyer has made no secret that the team will seek out veteran innings this winter, and Miley provides just that in bulk — at a highly affordable rate. While the lefty’s career looked to be on the downswing back in 2016-17, he’s enjoyed a stark turnaround over the past several seasons, culminating in a brilliant 2021 showing.
Since signing a minor league deal with the Brewers in 2018, Miley has amassed 425 1/3 innings of 3.53 ERA ball with three different clubs. He carries a below-average 18% strikeout rate in that time but a solid 8% walk rate and a well above-average 50.2% ground-ball rate. This past season was his best since way back in 2012. Miley’s 163 frames ranked 37th among the 909 players who pitched in the Majors this season, and that 3.37 ERA ranked 18th among qualified hurlers. His 49.8% ground-ball rate, meanwhile, ranked 10th.
The Cubs lacked any real form of certainty beyond Kyle Hendricks and, to a lesser extent, Alec Mills in next year’s rotation. Miley joins Hendricks as veteran anchor pair with the less-established Mills and younger arms like Adbert Alzolay, Justin Steele, Keegan Thompson and Brailyn Marquez. It’s quite likely that Hoyer & Co. will remain in the market for additional rotation help this winter, but securing Miley this early on affords both cost certainty and the luxury to perhaps pursue a younger free agent with a bit of upside.
This is a total steal, the Reds are such a horrible organization right now.
How stupid they are
This is bad. I’m wondering if Krall really explored the trade market. I find it hard to believe none of the other 29 teams offered anything at all for Miley. The guy had a great season and threw a no-hitter. Anything is better than nothing. Krall probably just kept asking for more and more and the teams backed out. Sounds like an ego thing. Nice payback the Cubs get him. Even taking a low level prospect who never makes it is better than this. Now they get nothing and he goes to a division rival for free. This is getting worse and worse for the Reds. I’m just gonna go ahead and say it. Krall needs to be fired immediately. The owner is probably a big part of the problem but I promise the owner did not tell him to turn down offers so Krall could give Miley away for free. That had to happen for this to take place.
As a longtime Reds fan I’ve got to agree with this, Krall needs to go. We showed a huge weakness to left-handers this season and to hand such a weapon, to a division rival, who will be motivated (alongside Ian Happ) to just thrash us, is absolute folly. I’ve never seen any team just give away such a valuable piece to a division rival. They are betting way too hard on prospects.
Xmas came early for the Cubbies. Not a big Miley fan, but if he can stay healthy, he’ll eat up some innings and might be a trade chip at the deadline.
Don’t really understand a lot of the things the Reds do.
Totally agree … (esp being a trade chip, if the Cubs are not in play for wildcard)
Not as bad as the…..wait for it…..Texas Rangers!
At least they’re not the Rockies, and now the Mets for that matter.
I wouldn’t mind being “stuck” with pitcher like Wade Miley for 10 millions good deal really. Cubs made off like bandits
Anybody who expects the Cubs to make a bid for any P who gets a QO will be severely disappointed. With no CBA and a work stoppage coming they won’t put that #7 draft pick in jeopardy until it’s settled, Nor with Hawkins and Cleveland’s success in drafting pitching would I want them too. Expect them to bring up their own or make trades. Maybe Stroman makes sense but not many others IMO.
You realize the penalty in the now expired CBA was the 2nd draft pick – nobody is losing the #7 pick unless they hack someone else’s computers.
Hence my point ” Until the new CBA is settled”. Reading is a skill. Nobody knows WHAT the penalty will be yet. Stroman is a true FA having got A QO last year. I don’t expect that to change.
The current CBA doesn’t expire until 12/01/21.
@Busman is right. The 2021 CBA covers the QO period. The QO is considered an extension of last season and not a part of next season from a contractual standpoint. If they change the QO system it won’t come into effect until after next season is over. The QO period is about to end. Notice the CBA doesn’t end until next month. That was intentional.
I think that was sarcasm on the part of the writer.
I like this claim. Maybe Flubs will be serious this winter.
And I do think the front office made fair offers to the boys who were traded.
What were those offers?
Look them up or pay closer attention as things happen.
Except for Schwarbs, to my knowledge no offer was made
to Schwarber.
Rizzo Bryant Baez all got fair offers in my opinion.
We’ll give you Alec Mills now for free. I’d rather see Sampson get a shot before Mills. He was actually not bad at the end. Mills just smells. But he’s cheap. Seems to be what they’re looking for, Smokin Joe.
Rizzo turned dow a 5 year, 70 mil extension this year and Baez turned down a 180 mil (unsure of years) in the 2019 offseason.
I don’t see Rizzo getting more than a 2, maybe 3 year deal at no more than 15M per. Baez could command a decent contract but the FA class is pretty SS heavy so maybe not.
We’ll see if you feel that way in July.
A team being willing to take on the salary is different than a team being willing to take on the salary AND give up prospect capital!
I saw Brad Hand as being a good bet to repeat his previous years results, and I was wrong. I place Miley’s chances as lower than Hand’s.
Yes, but given the lack of decent starting pitching on the market, even a #4 like Miley has some value. Reds blew this one. They could have gotten SOMETHING for him.
Arrieta 2.0!
Dumpster divin’!
Definitely no comp to Arrieta
Agree 100%: Miley’s 2021
* 6.0 WAR
* 12-7 record
* 3.37 era; 3.97 FIP
* 163 IP
dumpster diving is smart sometimes, not that you’d know
Releasing Miley—considering the dearth of quality starting pitching in the majors—makes absolutely no sense. If I were a Reds fan, I’d be pissed.
At minimum A’s, Reds, Pirates owners should be forced to sell. You can’t be a billionaire and claim poverty on your sports team you own for fun but is a billion dollar industry in itself now, so we really shouldn’t be letting billionaires own teams unless they agree to do 100% of what is asked of them to make the team win.
You cant be a billionaire then say “I dont have money for this”. Then you arent a billionaire, you are a poor person.
It would have been interesting to hear in what order teams had the option of selecting Miley. Who passed on him, if they did, and why?
Cincinnati is poverty
Poverty because the darn owner gave Votto the huge contract about 10 years ago. He’s the one that should be eating Votto contract. The owner has other income coming in from his produce distribution company in Wilder, Kentucky
It needs to be illegal to be able to own a professional sports team in America and yet claim you don’t have money to pay the players. That is dishonest, you don’t have the money to own the sports team then, and you need to sell to one of the dozens of richer people out there who will .
I thought the reds cut cy young after reading these comments. His last 4 starts he gave up 36 hits and 17 earned runs in 18 innings. He’s now 35 years old. His k rate is below average. And he has a $10 million option. Now tell me: why don’t you cut that guy loose? And what gm. In their right mind, would give you anything of value for him? Reds did the right thing.
Why A’s UK? It’s the American way Every rich owner of a major company pays it’s executives massive stock options and Golden Parachute’s while crying the have no money to give the regular employees raises. Bezos has trillions and yet works his employees like dogs while he pays zero income tax. Why is this any different?
Simple answer is even if he regresses to a 1.5 WAR player, he’s exceeding that 10M contract value (rough numbers based off blogs.fangraphs.com/the-cost-of-a-win-in-free-agen…). It’s bang for the buck, not necessarily dropping a rock star.
Votto has already played up to the entire sum of his contract. The Griffey contract did far more damage to our fanbase. Rip the lopsided economics of baseball if you like, Votto’s a real one and a primary reason I’m a Reds fan.
This move confused me but as a cardilols fan, I say W move by Cubbies
Great start for Carter Hawkins. Love this move.
Congratulations Cubs, you just took advantage of a massive market inefficiency. Reds should be ashamed of themselves and teams who didn’t claim Miley should be as well.
What’s the massive market inefficency?
Some teams not wanting to pay a 6 bWAR starting pitcher 10 million.
Can someone smarter than me explain why his fWAR is 2.9 but his bWAR is 5.7?
bWAR is based on RA/9 (runs allowed per 9 innings). fWAR is based on FIP (Fielding Independent Pitching) Miley had a 3.53 RA9 and 3.97 FIP. It can be a fickel thing and clearly isn’t the be-all-end-all, but just a good benchmark. Back in 2019, Walker Buehler had a 2.0 bWAR and 5.1 fWAR because he had a 3.01 FIP but 3.80 RA/9.
bWAR doesn’t put much emphasis on a team’s infield defense and focuses on actual results rather than expected stats. Basically, if two guys have the exact same stats, the one with the worse defense behind him will have a higher fWAR.
While the Reds aren’t known to be a great defensive team, Barnhart, Stephenson, India, Suarez, and Farmer all graded out well by the defensive metrics fangraphs uses, so that hampered their algorithm’s view of Miley.
fWAR really lifts up guys who have good expected stats and don’t have a good defense behind them, hence why Nate Eovaldi had the highest fWAR in the AL despite his actual stats not being as good as Ray’s or Cole’s. Miley had a 3.97 FIP and didn’t strike out that many guys but got good results, so bbref ranked him more in the context of his 141 ERA+
The market inefficiency is MLB team owners being fake rich: being rich enough to buy a sports team, but not rich enough to pay the players what they deserve from the profits they alone make.
Yeah waiver order is based off reverse standings for the NL right? So what in the world were Arizona, Pittsburgh, Miami, and Washington doing here?
That was just free value that they passed up. 1Y/$10M is such a minimal commitment for how well he’s been pitching.
Especially the Nationals who should be trying to compete. They probably get $10M from geico or Lockheed.
Miami has great pitching, already.
@CNichols Miami doesn’t need a 35 yo starter with a 4.14 ERA 2018-2021, though. Pittsburgh has salary issues similar to the Reds. AZ won 52 games in 2021–they hardly need to spend 1/10m here. The Nats, maybe, but if they’re in full rebuilding mode and Miley doesn’t do anything of substance for them. If they’re playing for 2025 they’re better off spending the money in the IFA market, aimed for a 17 yo with an electric arm for example.
Don’t forget that the Cubs have a higher waiver priority than most teams that would want him and have the budget to justify picking him since they tanked the post deadline stretch
It still makes sense for them to all put in claims. Those teams ahead on the waiver order can 1) actually try to win, or 2) trade him for value.
All of those teams are just being incredibly cheap because they don’t want to take on the salary or even just the risk of having to take on some salary if you can’t trade him or have to wait until the deadline to do it.
Don’t forget teams are trying to trim the 40 before the rule 5. They also have to consider the player being exposed to keep Miley for one year where they won’t be competing. They know Cincinnati tried to move him NOW, and couldn’t get anything. If he does not start the year well, they may be out the money, as well as a player that could have helped when closer to their window.
Teams have a lot of garbage on their rosters they can let go of. No reason to be afraid of giving a spot to an affordable veteran arm.
What is the waiver order right now? I’m interested in knowing which teams did pass this opportunity over.
@Holden Bases Iirc it’s the worst record in the same league as the team doing the waiving, then the worst record in the other league, then the worst remaining record in the first league, then the worst remaining record in the second league, alternating all the way to first place in the other league. So here it would be AZ, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Texas, and so on. Iirc.
Good luck, Reds. I’ll check in again in 2025.
We just got out-smarted by the Cubs. That’s a new low.
Been getting outsmarted by the Cubs for about 10 years now. Wake up!
The dog could out smart the Reds brass.
How did Sean Marshall work out for you?
Well, this is quite sad on the Reds part. Should have paid the buyout to give him more opportunities after he put up a 6 bWAR season for them. But an even better move for the team would have been to pick up the option and trade him.
Why? The Reds could have found plenty of trade partners for Wade Miley at 1yr/$10M. Is their ownership facing bankruptcy or something?
It’s probably a fiscal year thing… they easily could have traded him but maybe didn’t want to risk waiting until January 1, or risk having to kick money in on a deal, although that said, if they’re willing to lose him for nothing on waivers, they should be fine with getting back the fringiest of fringe minor leaguers if it means having another team take on the whole salary.
Either way, garbage move from a team that actually played pretty well last year.
Maybe, but Miley’s FIP 2017-2020 was 4.63. Unless we really think that he figured something out in 2021 at age 34 while his K rate dropped to a low, low 6.9 per 9, then he was simply lucky. He might get enough more than 1/10m on the open market to warrant the Reds paying him and trading him, but I doubt you’d get a real prospect for that pitcher—and you might get stuck with him or have to eat a couple of million.
Seriously… what the flying F are they thinking? They couldn’t have traded him for SOMETHING? What a joke!
After that idiotic barnhart trade I thought I’d seen stupidity at it’s worst but apparently krall said “hold my beer”.
Why not keep Miley and find a trade partner for him? Bad look.
This has to be an ownership decision, and an incredibly bad one.
Done.
I’m done.
Y’all can join us at the disappointing baseball teams round-table. It’s okay, we’ll get through this.
The Reds could’ve picked up his cheap 10 mil club option…. then TRADED HIM! They could’ve traded his entire 10 mil salary too and STILL have gotten some decent little pieces back in return. This just seems like baseball malpractice.
Yes the fans should be suing management/owners.
Don’t know what’s going on with ownership. First bring back bell even though he’s proven he can’t win, gut the bullpen last year, sign bottom of the barrel pitchers last year, cut payroll and do nothing to improve the team last off season. The off season just started and I’m already wondering, why?? We need new ownership, the game has changed since castellani bought the team, but he has not.
The team is worth a billion dollars. If ownership feels they do not have enough money to compete, then sell the team. There are plenty of buyers out there who would be willing to pay for a competitive roster. They will never spend like the Yanks, but they can do better than this. And if they think they are the Rays, then manage the team like that from too to bottom. As it is, they don’t invest enough in player development and they don’t pay enough for veterans, so they’re stuck in the uncomfortable middle. It’s painful to watch them crap the bed over and over.
Terrible move by the Reds, great one by the Cubs. Miley was a beast last year.
Bob Castellini really trying to be the worst owner in the MLB rn
No the Rockies
He’s trying. I don’t know if he can catch up to Dick Monfort, but it won’t be due to a lack of effort.
Wait, when did Miley get put on waivers, and WHY? He just had arguably the best season of his career… Didn’t realize the Reds were so strapped for cash.
Reds ownership needs to sell the team because they surely won’t have no fans support at this rate. Bull crap
29 other teams should be calling the Reds immediately trying to steal more players from them on the cheap.
Reds owner is a clown
Ladies and gentleman, please allow us to introduce the Reds to the “we are cheap” club
Another fantastic move by the Reds. Imagine what they can do with that $1 million they saved. Wow, he is a great GM. Surprised Mets aren’t trying to get him as POBO
I hear they are in talks with the janitor that cleans the front office of the Brewers. Maybe he overheard some of the decision making while scrubbing the toilets, and has better insight into how to run a team over anyone the Mets have to offer.
And the Jays napping as usual ! Total steal for a club that might kit even contend after trading away most of its core !
Not exactly sure what the Reds have in mind !
Cubs have higher waiver wire position due to being in the NL and having a poor year.
to4
And the Jays napping as usual !
==============================
You don’t really know how the waivers work?
I guess nobody wanted to trade for him! Clearly reds would not have asked for much and clearly his salary wasn’t to much
Is Rachel Phelps the owner?
Teams inquired about a trade, but they all asked for Roger Dorn to be included. Due to tricky rules involving his minority ownership stake, a deal could not be completed.
“I thought you didn’t have any high priced talent on this team”
“Forget about Dorn. He’s just high priced”
The Reds are obviously awful for waiving Miley, but what the hell are the Pirates thinking not claiming him? Flip him at the deadline!
Nutting’s goal is a payroll of $15 mill. ($575k x 25 or 26 players)! Miley would almost double that by himself! What are you thinking, punster???
Stop it. Nutting might be one of the cheapper owners in the league, but it’s not like he hasn’t put up the money before. Between 2016-2018, they spent about $100 million on payroll. They just spent most of that signing replacement level players and tendering contracts to the likes of Jeff Locke, Kyle Lobstein, Jon Niese, etc. Based on what Cherington has done so far, I have no doubt that if they spend like that again, the resources will be allocated to better investments.
What’s unreal about this is they could have just exercised the $10M option and then traded him before the season started. They literally wouldn’t have had to pay him anything and they could have gotten at least some prospect value back. Even if you trade him for a bag of balls it’s better than this.
Most of the time there are at least some arguments on both sides for a transaction, but this move is a rare completely indefensible transaction.
My hunch is there’s more to story regarding Miley’s health. 17 Earned Runs in Sept, and shut down after 9/19 for neck injury. Only reason I can see, he was let go. If healthy, he certainly has return value in a trade.
There must be more to this, right? There’s no way the Reds couldn’t have found a trade partner for Miley.
Cleveland couldn’t find a trade for Brad Hand. Why does Miley at the same price surprise you. Its not like Miley has been the most consistent pitcher over his career.
I agree. The RS could always use another SP, and I wouldn’t think twice about Miley. From 2016-2020, his ERA was 4.66, ERA+ 93, FIP was 4.58, and the K/W was 7.4/3.7. He had a pretty good 2021, but a really bad September, and finished the year on the IL. And he is almost 35.
I don’t see where he’s getting all this love from. I’m not saying he’s going to tank, but $10M is still a decent salary.
You absolutely have a point, but one is a reliever and the other a starter, so that’s a difficult comparison.
Additionally, Hand’s velocity was down in 2020, so that had at least some influence on Cleveland’s decision.
Miley’s definitely been “bumpy” at times, but following a mid-career slump, he’s been solid when healthy in 3 of the last 4 years.
Hand made it through waivers, Miley didn’t even make it through the NL
The race to the #1 pick begins
Instead of “aligning the payroll to their resources” maybe the inept Reds recent GM’s should have been aligning their acquisitions on better quality and more productive players.
Pitiful. Traded Iglaseis last year for peanuts and now waive Miley who pitched well in that bandbox. $10 mil is acceptable for a #4. Looking more like the Marlins of the ‘90’s tearing it down after winning. Except the Marlins did win a WS before burning the house down.
Wow the Reds are a joke
I’m convinced that Castillo, Gray, Winker, and Mahle will be traded this offseason for basically nothing just to cut payroll. How depressing it is to follow a team that has had only one owner in the last 50 years willing to spend money (Marge Schott) but she sacrificed the farm system to do it. This reminds me of the offseason after the stolen 1981 season when Dick Wagner finished destroying what was left of the Big Red Machine (not to compare this team to the Machine). I feel bad for the fans, Joey Votto, and the young players who will never see the playoffs much less a World Series while associated with this joke of a franchise. Maybe Castellini is trying to make this team so bad he can pitch for a new stadium or move the team.
Surprised the O’s or Pirates didn’t claim him as their #1 starter for 2022.
I’m not because the current philosophy of both the organizations lines up with the Reds: we don’t care who the player is, we don’t wanna pay anybody $10M a year if we don’t have to.
The Reds had 5 guys on the roster last year making > $10M, so I am not sure where you are getting your facts from.
Miley would never have reached the Orioles position. (He’s available, first, to NL teams, worst record to best. Then if nobody takes him, to the AL.) I imagine even the Giants might have taken Miley off the Reds’ hands for a lower prospect.
Discouraging moment for Reds fans, encouraging moment for Cubs fans
That’s bull if they couldn’t find a trade partner for Miley. He had 6 bWAR and 2.9 fWAR this year. Since 20128, he’s averaged 4.2 fWAR/160 innings pitched. Miley isn’t usually a guy who is injured a lot and could easily provide those 150-160 innings.
Isn’t it a little early to start to tank? On a good team a 3-5 starter. Trade value there, Mets prime example to trade for. And 10 million for a starter. Could have gotten at least a low minor player with upside.
I wonder if this is a sign that the Cubs will actually spend some money and try for a quick turnaround in 2022, or if their plan is to flip Miley at the deadline. Either way, he’s a starter who can give them innings while he’s in town, which their rotation needs badly.
If anything, this made Hoyer/Hawkins life much easier this offseason on the pitching side now they filled in a slot in the rotation for only $10 million even if Miley regresses back to more of a back end guy,
I as a Cubs fan, I could not be happier this happened, but very weird move by the reds.
To my thinking, the only way this move makes sense for the Reds is if Miley has an injury (or at least significant injury risk) that we don’t know about. Either way, it’s a gamble worth taking for the Cubs, since even an injured Miley wouldn’t hamstring their payroll at $10M.
I thought the right move would’ve been to invest in RPs. They’d help for the first 4 months, and likely get them something at the trade deadline.
Their plan will be to spend on one year contracts. Maybe one big long term splash. The Cubs still need to see what they have with some of their young potential starters and a few position players. 2022 isn’t a compete year, it’s how smart is your GM year.
Agreed. The most exciting thing to happen at Wrigley in 2022 will be the debut of Brennen Davis. In terms of the standings, the only suspense will be whether the Cubs can catch the Reds for 3rd place.
I would say great move by Hoyer/ Hawkins but this one kind of just fell in their laps.
What the heck are the Reds doing? you don’t waive a guy who had the season he had.
half stupid half genius. they should have just paid the option and dealt him if nothing else, but they do avoid paying anything this way. this move is better than a buyout at least, though I cant believe players will want to sign with CIN knowing they’d let you go to the waiver Gods when they dont want to buy you out. Miley could have made bank this offseason if bought out, and could have gotten a better gig than in Chicago.
But you don’t know that. I said the same last year with Brad Hand. Hand was probably the best closer in BB in 2020. Cleveland had an option which they didn’t take. I thought they could surely have gotten something exchange for him. Washington signed him, but wasn’t nearly as good, and went to TO and the NYM and he couldn’t pitch at all.
And he is by no means alone. The NYY didn’t bother pursuing Paxton when he left. He got $8,5M from Seattle, for 1.1 innings. Clevinger and Darvish were steals by SD, until they weren’t.
I have no faith in the Cincy FO, but I’d also be willing to bet that they at least looked at the possibilities. They’re not sitting there saying ‘Oh, you mean we could’ve traded him?’.
3 of the 4 prospects the Cubs got for Darvish had very good seasons this year! The Cubs were going nowhere in 2021 so they also saved a lot of money. The Cubs will eventually win the Darvish trade by a lot.
part of me really does say that no one felt like making a commitment to dealing for Miley with the FA market looking strong, but the Reds better be right about that, because if CHC turns around and DOES get something for him? oof.
Cubs proved last year they will eat salary to up the prospect haul. This is a great move and easily tradable at the deadline if not contending.
A couple of things to note:
1-I assume that Miley was on the trade block, but no one was interested. I have no faith in the Cincy FO, but I have to assume that even they aren’t stupid enough to waive a guy with trade value.
2-He finished the season on the DL, after having had a 8.35 ERA in September.
Hard to believe this deal after seeing his 2021 record!
Thats one of the most expensive waiver claims i can think of. Good for the Cubs though, they get a starting pitcher and didn’t have to give up anything in return
Weren’t Vernon Wells and Justin Upton placed on waivers prior to being traded?
No. Wells was acquired for Mike Napoli and Juan Rivera. Upton was acquired for two minor leaguers.
Alex Rios to the White Sox from the Blue Jays and his $15 million per year salary is the most expensive straight waiver claim i think of
Kenny Williams was GM for White Sox and claimed Rios. Now promoted. He has something on Reinsdorf. Doubt any other club would hire him to be a locker room attendant.
Wow.
We might have just seen the offseason’s biggest steal. Can’t believe Cashman didn’t have interest. Miley is like Heaney. Except…well he is actually good. Can’t believe we didn’t have another Junk laying around for him.
Just to mention, Cubs did the same last year with Kyle Schwarber, only to sign Joc Pederson for a same salary a couple of months later, and only to trade him to Atlanta. Schwarber was about to go to arbitration. If they should’d kept him, with the kind of season he was having, by mid season, maybe, and I am sayin’ maybe, the return for him would have been better than the one they received for Joc. So, Cubs fans know how this hurt. Therefore, depending “ifff” they keep Miley, we have to wait and see how he pitches next year, in order for the FO to get even with the fans for the Schwarber aberration. Finally, we all know no matter how good he pitches for the Cubs, the only reason to get him is just to trade him by mid season for “prospects”.
Will the Reds try to trade Joey Votto just to reduce Salary?
They would probably trade him to kickstart a rebuild if he didn’t have a full NTC.
He might be willing to rethink that in light of Krall’s words and behavior this week. No player will willingly want to be in a Reds uni after this winter’s fire sale.
Last time he talked about his NTC, he basically said he wouldn’t waive it for any reason. The only possible way I could see them somehow unloading his contract would be with the Blue Jays, but the Jays have no reason to take on a 1B/DH when they have one of the best 1B’s in the game currently, about three players who can split time at DH, and bigger needs to fill. Some players don’t care about the money or how good the team is. Votto seems to want to be a Red for life.
Votto is 38 and has two years left on his contract, maybe a third if he is close enough to 400 Homers and the Reds exercise his option in ’24. He’s Mr. Red at this point and is not going anywhere
Castellini and Krall need to face the fans and tell them what is coming. If all you are going to do is release players for nothing then tell us what you are doing. The Reds could have kept Miley and been in a position to make an offer to Castellanos if they didn’t have awful contracts left for Moustakas and Akiyama. Who is going to be the new right fielder? Greene and Lodolo can join the rotation. It’s getting to be time for fans to start showing their displeasure in front of the stadium. We just went through a rebuild. We cannot go through another one. PLEASE SELL THE TEAM TO SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO COMPETE.
This is the Jon Lester 2.0 “signing”. Our Cubbies are making waves and working towards a championship run in 2024.
There are at least a dozen teams that would have given a half decent prospect in exchange for Miley with a contract that low. Miley is coming off a 6 WAR season, for God’s sake, that should have been worth at least a top 100 or maybe two to a really desperate GM. Now the Reds end up with nothing! This move is STUPID!
Miley is one of those guys about whom fWAR and bWAR violently disagree. bWAR saw him as an elite pitcher (6 WAR, as you say), but fWAR saw him as more slightly above league average (2.9 WAR). At the latter production, $10m is a team friendly number but not crazily so. When bWAR and fWAR disagree about a pitcher in this way, it’s usually because he’s a groundball finesse guy who happened to see most of his ground balls and line drives go right at defenders.
On top of that, he’s old. The projection systems all think he will regress dramatically. Still, I’m surprised no one way down in the waiver priority didn’t offer a B level prospect. Angels? Giants? You need innings, folks.
Nope DDD
You would have gotten some spare parts, probably guys teams have soured on themselves but once had some name or draft prospect capital
This can do more harm than good as resources are fairly limited to MLB clubs (40 man roster etc)
I wouldn’t be happy if I was a Reds fan today but this isn’t some Baseball ops slip up here where the captains drunk at the wheel
The ship went into the fog (Covid) and hit an Iceberg, this is the ship taking on water
A lot of investigative reporters in here
Look, there’s a money problem when the guy at the top says there is a money problem and that’s where it really ends.
Anybody whose been in the room when top level execs (Any company really) speak knows what Im saying (You can question all you want in your head during; but you Never speak it out loud )
It’s senseless for us to debate Cincy’s finances, even if they were public they would have amazing bookkeepers freshening the product to whichever way suited them before hitting the publics eyes . This isn’t shocking news folks, Mileys contract was considered underwater before his good 5 months last year
The assets back would have been lite , so much so, that IF there was a money problem today, it makes sense to just rip the band-aid off
Not many in here know how 40 man rosters work, taking on other teams spare parts can do more harm then good sometimes –
I have No problem with this move today considering the circumstances
Hey all. After getting over this surprise news and taking some time to respond and not a knee jerk reaction. Krall’s statement that they had to align their team with their resources or something to that effect. That means anyone on the team who makes x number of $ is fair game if they have someone in the wings that might produce similar results for less $ i.e. Lodolo or Greene. I think that’s what he did with Inglessis when he traded him to the Angels. He thought/hoped someone would step up and give much better value. I am sure Krall would love it if the the owner said go ahead and be the Yankees or Dodgers and buy whatever you need but when the boss says cut costs that’s what you do. If Castillo, Gray, Suarez and Moustakas don’t get hurt and/or play up to their career averages at least, then I say the Reds with the division.
Reds brass are keeping their fingers, toes and eyes crossed as they make room for the new kids who make a ton less.
The biggest sting for me regarding this is the Cubs getting him, are division rivals. Every time he beats the Reds this year that sting will be worse.
Bleep!
Miley will be traded at the deadline health permitting
It’s always going to be tough for mid payroll teams in the eyes of the beholders-
You go for it and it doesn’t work out you get waxed by everyone-
You sit around and muddle in 3rd place for years and you get waxed for not going for it
I don’t see Cincy’s situation as dire as the overwhelming majority on these boards do. The Div isn’t strong and they got a nice crop of youngsters on the verge of paying dividends. I’m sure the passing of the torch roadmap that was laid out 3 years ago has changed but you can probably blame Covid for that more than any single individual that lies within the Reds organization. They are still miles ahead of Chi and Pitt even when selling and Mil and Stl are certainly not infallible by any means.
Good steal by Cubs. You never know what you get with Miley (stats all over the place), but he’s at least a serviceable pitcher that fits into their rebuilding phase. For those doubting Hoyer, this is a good start for him.
The Reds are shedding salary in every way possible – Moose should look both directions twice before crossing any streets….
Cincinnati ownership will be writing this season off with the moves so far. If you cannot put fans in the stands you will not have a team much longer. No direction just fielding a AAA team
DUMP DA DUMP DUMP !DAAA! Like the Drag Net TV show theme
While it’s understandable that a small market club has to make difficult financial decisions like shedding Miley’s salary, it’s inconceivable in my mind that they couldn’t get SOMETHING in return. Just take a look at the rotations of teams like the Mets, Giants, Blue Jays, Red Sox, Mariners, Nationals, Yankees, Angels, etc., Nearly all those teams have shown the willingness to spend money and could use a pitcher like Miley. I thought the same thing last year when the Reds gave away Iglesias.
Small market teams can’t afford to give up assets for nothing. There’s a saying, “there is no such thing as a bad one year contract” and this is a perfect example. $10million for a pitcher who COULD be a #2 and is likely to provide better production than most #4 hurlers ought to bring something back. While I know ownership is directing this, a GM worth his salt could have called up one of these teams that seem poised to contend and found some deal worth making, even if he had to expand the transaction to include other players.
Lifelong Red’s fan here. This ownership group is an absolute joke. Sell the team to a real owner who has the money to own a team.
Maybe someone richer than cohen hopefully
Again, this smacks of a transaction that we may not know everything about. On the surface, it’s hard to believe that any of several bigger-market contenders couldn’t afford to give up 2 or 3 sub-lottery tickets for the guy, but that’s only on the surface.
Injury issue? Personal issue? Both fit here a lot better than the Reds were just dumb (although, granted, they’ve been dumb before).
I said it months ago: The Cubs are going to bring back Schwarber, Bryant, Baez and Rizzo. Everything is pointing to this happening.
Six teams who had first shot at Miley, including the Nats and Rangers, opted not to claim him. A 6 rWAR pitcher who pitched 163 quality innings to a 3.37 ERA this year.
Yes, Miley could have been traded, although trying to move him now when every org knows he’ll be cut by the Reds and as other teams are faced with 40-man roster issues isn’t ideal. We saw that the Cubs had no issue paying him $10M, so saying there was no market was a lie. Of course there’s a market for Miley. At worst, “gift” him to some team so you control where he lands.
Did the Rangers have a chance at him? I thought it was NL teams first for NL waivers.
Nationals have been making other claims and waivers so could be a roster management issue for them.
It would be nice to see the list of who passed him upon the waiver claim wire? Or does it go off records
Cubs will trade him
To the Reds.
His best days are behind him.
Just confused why the Reds would let him go. Pick up the option and trade him for a prospect or two. How was letting go to a division rival for nothing preferable?
Unforgivable. Cheap-Ass Reds! Miley was the heart and soul. Fire Nick Krall
Simultaneously the best (Cubs) & dumbest (Reds) move of the offseason.
Being a Reds fan is hard at times..
Appropriate that the Cubs picked up Miley. He’ll come in like a wrecking ball
Reds, Pirates, Marlins, and a few others should lose their franchise for these moves.