Talk:Chuzi I

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Chuzi and Duke Chu

自己じこ仔こ细读《秦はた本ほん纪》和かず《秦はた始はじめ皇すめらぎ本ほん纪》，前ぜん一个秦出子没有被叫做秦出公，后きさき一个秦出公则也叫秦出子，这已经可以消歧义了りょう，用よう不着ふちゃく一いち世せい二に世せい。
- 《史ふみ记·秦はた本ほん纪》：生出おいで子こ。宁公卒そつ，大だい庶长弗どる忌き、威い垒、三父废太子而立出子为君。出だし子こ六ろく年ねん，三父等复共令人贼杀出子。出だし子生こなじ五ご岁立，立たて六ろく年ねん卒そつ。
- 《史ふみ记·秦はた本ほん纪》：惠めぐみ公おおやけ十じゅう二に年ねん，子こ出で子生こなじ。十じゅう三さん年ねん，伐き蜀しょく，取と南みなみ郑。惠めぐみ公おおやけ卒そつ，出で子こ立りつ。之これ出で子こ二に年ねん，庶长改あらため迎むかえ灵公之子ゆきこ献けんじ公こう于河西にし而立じりつ之の。杀出子こ及其母はは，沈之渊旁。
- 《史ふみ记·秦はた始はじめ皇すめらぎ本ほん纪》：出で子こ享とおる国こく六ろく年ねん，居きょ西陵せいりょう。庶长弗どる忌き、威い累るい、参まいり父ちち三さん人にん，率りつ贼贼出で子こ鄙ひな衍，葬そう衙。武たけ公立こうりつ。
- 《史ふみ记·秦はた始はじめ皇すめらぎ本ほん纪》：出で公こう享とおる国こく二に年ねん。出だし公こう自じ杀，葬そう雍。

——星ほし光ひかり下か的てき人じん (talk) 01:54, 6 May 2012 (UTC) (Discussion moved here from User talk:Zanhe)[reply]

Translation of the message above: read Annals of Qin and Annals of Qin Shi Huang, the first Chuzi is not called Duke Chu, but the second is called Duke Chu and also Chuzi. That's sufficient disambiguation, not need for I and II. (followed by quotes from the Shiji). (translated by Zanhe)

Reply — here are the facts:

In Annals of Qin of the Shiji, which deals with the history of the state of Qin, both rulers are called Chuzi.
In Annals of Qin Shi Huang of the Shiji, which deals with the history of the Qin Dynasty but includes a list of rulers of the State of Qin, the first one is called Chuzi, the second called Duke Chu.
In Han Zhaoqi's Annotated Shiji, Han says the first Chuzi should be called Duke Chu, and the second should be called Chuzi (see p. 358 and pp 478-479).

Summary: Chuzi may refer to either of the two rulers, and there's no conclusion whether Duke Chu exclusively refers to the second Chuzi. Therefore it's better to call them Chuzi I and Chuzi II. --Zanhe (talk) 00:11, 7 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

OK，查了史し记十じゅう二に诸侯年表ねんぴょう，确实前面ぜんめん的てき出で子こ也可以叫出で公おおやけ，但ただし我わが反はん对使用しよう一いち世せい二に世せい，中国ちゅうごく没ぼつ有ゆう这种体系たいけい，消しょう歧义应该使用しよう在位ざいい年代ねんだい.——星ほし光ひかり下か的てき人じん (talk) 04:31, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

@Zanhe: I was wondering. Would Chuzi (4th century BC) and Chuzi (8th century BC) or Chuzi (Warring States period) and Chuzi (Spring and Autumn period) be better than using regnal numbers which does not exist in Chinese terminology. KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:43, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]