Help talk:IPA/Japanese
Appearance
![]() | This help page does not require a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
|||
This page has archives. Sections older than 180 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 2 sections are present. |
Long /iː/ not broken /iˈi/
[edit]Dear user:Nardog, your insistence on an uncommon word like re-equalize is problematic, for that it is not found the way it is in dictionaries and the two E's actually belong to two syllables /ˌɹiːˈiːkwəlaɪz/. English approximations should provide common words with the closest vowels. I attempted to give a more common word with the /iː/ sound unbroken in two syllables, but you didn't like it, reasoning that it's "one vowel", which is not. --Esperfulmo (talk) 00:34, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
- It seems you thought /iː/ represented an inherently long vowel, but as Vowel length explains, few varieties of English contrast vowels in length only, and many sources represent the same vowel (the FLEECE vowel) as /i/. Not only deed but meet, which exemplifies [i] here, have the FLEECE vowel, so deed wouldn't help illustrate what ⟨ː⟩ means—perhaps unless they're next to each other as in Help:IPA/Danish etc., but given Japanese is mora-based, I don't think that approach (using pre-fortis clipping to illustrate durational difference) is appropriate here and instead we need something like re-equalize to emphasize that ⟨ː⟩ indicates "twice as long". Nardog (talk) 01:52, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
- Not contrasting vowels by length in English doesn't mean that some vowels aren't longer than others. A word like sheet pronounced by an Italian colleague sounded pretty much like shit with a raised i, because in their pronunciation they really don't contrast length in such a position. --Esperfulmo (talk) 21:41, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
Does this really represent Okinawan, as claimed?
[edit]This page claims to represent both Japanese and Okinawan, but according to Okinawan language#Consonants, Okinawan retains the labialised /kʷ/ and /ɡʷ/ that Japanese lost. Those are not represented in the key. Double sharp (talk) 05:09, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
- I've watched and edited this key for years and somehow I never noticed it said it covered Okinawan! Okinawan has a different ISO 639 code, and {{IPA-ryu}} doesn't link to this page and is used in nine articles (and at least five of them use it for other Ryukyuan languages). I've gone through every IPA-ja transclusions a couple times some years ago and never seen it used for Okinawan (and if I had I would have replaced it). As you point out the key does not actually cover Okinawan and a key for Okinawan/Ryukyuan should be created separately if there are enough use cases (which there aren't atm). Removing boldly. Nardog (talk) 16:33, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
Categories:
- NA-Class Help articles
- NA-importance Help articles
- Wikipedia Help Project pages
- NA-Class Linguistics articles
- NA-importance Linguistics articles
- NA-Class phonetics articles
- NA-importance phonetics articles
- Phonetics Task Force articles
- WikiProject Linguistics articles
- NA-Class Japan-related articles
- NA-importance Japan-related articles
- WikiProject Japan articles
- NA-Class language articles
- NA-importance language articles
- WikiProject Languages articles