The Anti Wikia Wiki Alliance Wiki

http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Main_Page

Roberto has struck on its servers too, hasn't he? Shoutwiki has encountered some heavier problems than Uncyclomedia has had. The wikis over there have been down since autumn last year, if I'm correct.

What's next? An Anti-Shoutwiki Alliance Wiki on wikkii.com?

Does somebody know more?

My Quite Serious Opinion

This wiki has a problem and I am really fed up with it.

I think all this Holier-Than-Thou, anti-corporate "We don't have the backing of large organizations" talk has a major flaw in it's reasoning.

It's Roberto!

I would call this, "The Roberto Fallacy."

The Roberto Fallacy is the idea that anything is better than what everybody else is using, even if it doesn't actually work. This is why Ubuntu has been erroneously called "Linux for Normal People."

In case you don't get it: he's been spending all weekend digging through forum posts and getting trolled on IRC channels trying to get his Linux box to do simple tasks that it should do automatically by default without having to deal with any of that crap.

Anyway, the point is that clearly, independent hosting is not working for us. It has too much independence and not enough hosting. The site seems to be down more than it's up!!

Carib is a great guy and it's wonderful that he's been willing to donate the use of the servers and whatnot and I'm not being critical of him. This is not his fault at all. But something needs to be done to get us to a point where our site works regardless whether it's independent or looks exactly the way we want it to look or whatever other crap. Functionality: being UP and RUNNING must trump every other consideration.

Something's got to be done here. We've got to get the site running reliably, all the time. That might mean going back to Wikia or some other less than perfect outcome. But anything beats having no site.

BTW, I have an old, seldom-updated blog where I've written down some pointless rants in favor of a more balanced view of the free software and free culture movement.

The Anti Wikia Alliance: Growing in number day by day

In the interests of annoying the hell out of Nerd, I feel I must draw your attention to the existence of a relatively new wiki known as the Anti Wikia Alliance. As the title might suggest, it's a bit like the Complaint Wiki, which logs gripes and annoyances with Wikia Inc.

However, whereas CW is an archive of discussions on other wikis, it's expected that AWA will be a place to chat about all things that cheese you off about Wikia. Granted, the basic frame of the website is modelled on an 'Anti Wikia' discussion page at Wikia (who subsequently booted them from their servers), but with a bit of help it could actually garner some attention. Press attention, maybe.

So, if you're in the anti-Wikia camp, then I'm sure you'll find it all very good reading. To get your juices flowing, here's a taster of some of the stuff levelled at Wikia since the inception of their new skin last month, and here's a list of the latest wikis joining the mass pilgrimage to ShoutWiki.

Personally, I'm gonna monitor the situation and create an account there once the database is unlocked for public input. I intend to compile a list of links to my comments/posts on Wikia for reference and report my thoughts on the site once I've had some time to check it out more thoroughly.

The fate of the old wiki

Warning: this post contains links to W*kia websites

A discussion is currently taking place over at the old W*kia Illogicopedia as to what you think should happen to it. We urge you to have your say on this matter because, as you can imagine, it's pretty important. Well, I stopped eating my Micro Pizza just to edit it anyway.

So, stick your two-penneth worth in there and we'll hopefully be able to strike some sort of amicable deal with our former Overlords.

To the Ratmobile! I mean, er, the forum topic.

In slightly related news, Uncyclopedia are in continued negotiation with W*kia as to what they're gonna do about the domain name situation. It's all top secret behind the scenes stuff at the moment, but a progress update is imminent.

Stay tuned, because I think QI is starting in a minute.

Wikia sucks... or does it? The Final Word... maybe.

Warning: this post is longer than the Brazilian national anthem sung by Mariah Carey on Mogadon.

"Wikia is capitalism dressed up as socialism" -- Andrew Keen

The dust has yet to fully settle on the Illogicopedia independence movement but for all the comments made in anger recently, I thought it was about time I gave my honest opinion on they that are known as Wikia. Most of this stuff I have already stated at some point or another in the last month, and you may well disagree with a lot of it but I've been involved indirectly with Wikia for a long, long while and this is my opinion on the matter.

You probably know my position on the 'keep a dead wiki open for as long as possible' situation. At the time of writing, this has yet to happen to Illogic, but the precedent is there (and benefit of the doubt can only last for so long) - the Transformers wiki now has two versions, one at Wikia, one independent.

Common courtesy says delete the old wiki and/or create a hard redirect to the new one in respect of the departing community. But since when was big business about common courtesy? Wikia is a for-profit organisation and naturally needs the cash to survive and flourish, so it is in their own interest to keep their wiki open: and let's face it, they are well within their rights. The cynical might say the reason for their actions is to run in direct competition to the independent wiki, hogging Google rank and milking the content for every penny it's worth.

Now, New Monaco might have been forgiveable if it weren't for the perceived selfishness of the aforementioned. Don't get me wrong, Wikia are committed to creating new wikis and thus expanding their knowledge bases for specialist subjects. A noble quest indeed, but again the whole situation comes down to money. In this sense I feel sorry for Wikia and those who created the project - their primary goal is being hugely clouded by their need to constantly please the advertisers.

Hence New Monaco. Hence keeping dead wikis open. Hence moving the Uncyclopedia domain name to Wikia servers. The community at large disagree with these decisions but remember: money + money = money. Money!

Personally, I am glad we jumped ship at the point we did. The Wikia service has, on the whole, been top-notch: downtime has been rare. I could live with New Monaco. I could live with the stupid advertisements (and we did for nineteen months) and the feeling of patronism involved with being 'babysat'.

What changed my mind was the community's increasing disgruntledness and disillusionment with our Great Overlords. One of our most respected editors refused to contribute any longer until we ditched Wikia, and yet others threatened to leave Illogicopedia forever. I know the situation is very similar at Uncyclopedia, too.

The co-founders have slightly differing opinions on the matter. Nerd thinks that, whilst on balance Wikia have been a good server, the time has come to move on. Sepp reckons Wikia never wanted us in the first place, evidenced by their reluctance to accept Illogicopedia into their community.

I agree in part with both but I suppose business will be business - harsh, cruel and relentlessly capitalist in its nature. This doesn't really mix with Illogicopedia's laid back ethics, so the time was right. For dancing in the streets. Which I shall now go and do, even though it's chucking it down and there's a strange man in a mackintosh.

Phew, a politics post. I need a lie down after that... don't worry, the light relief will return sooner rather than potater.

Eight reasons why Wikia sucks the move will benefit Illogic

Some people (granted, they are in the minority) may have questions as to exactly why Illogicopedia is moving from its 16-month-long home at Wikia. Well, it was always an intention for Illogic to go independent... oh, right, I've said that bit loads of times before. Here are some very good reasons why Illogic is better off without Wikia:

1. Bureaucracy. Now Monaco - we didn't agree to it but they forced it upon us anyway. Not fair, eh? We get the impression Wikia never wanted us there in the first place, they were highly reluctant and seemed to see us as a second rate piece of rubbish. They eventually accepted us into the community when they saw we attracted users, but how dare they doubt us!
   
2. Adverts and Wikia spotlight. Yep, we were forced to include adverts: they were somewhat bearable but not really ideal. Both are now gone, and you can't disagree it looks miles better without them.
3. Design Customisation. We're now free to install a selection of extensions, should we decide to use them, to improve the wiki. Aside from this, we make our own decisions about the wiki's default skin.
   
4. Namespaces. At Wikia, it was difficult to install new namespaces without fuss so IllogiGames, IllogiNews, IllogiToons etc. had to reside in the mainspace. This was partly laziness on the part of the administrators, but the move allows us to readress the issue and make a 'fresh start' with it, so to speak. Now each of these is a space in their own right meaning you can search each individually via Special:Search, and they don't pop up when you hit Random Page.
5. Interwiki Babel links. Same as above: we might have been able to do this at Wikia but the new servers make it much easier to link between the three Illogicopedias. It means that, should there be a corresponding article in French or Dutch, you will soon be able access it through the English language page.
   
6. Greater links with Uncyclopedia. Carlb's servers host foreign language Uncyclopedias, so Illogic's Intercyclopedia relationships can only be strengthened by the move. Extensions and resources can be easily shared between the wikis without too much fuss, and we would have the support of the Uncyc community (well, some of it) should any problems occur. In addition, it could potentially make things easier for people to find Illogic through Uncyc.
   
7. Admins can now change usernames. Binclin, Jojo Randomise, David. What do these users have in common? That's right, they've all had to create new accounts because Wikia didn't like people changing their usernames. Admins now have the power to do this freely, meaning you won't lose any edits. Wonder how long it'll be before User:Bcbkye comes along?
   
8. Pageview counters. In terms of gauging Illogic's popularity, this could be rather useful. There's also a popular pages link similar to the one at the old Editthis wiki, and the reset user list gives us a chance to see exactly how many regular users Illogicopedia has. Yep, it isn't quite as advanced as Wikia's stats pages but it is quite exciting, isn't it? I'm clutching at straws here, aren't I?
   

Hopefully, all this has left you in no doubt that the move was right for an ever-growing wiki of our size. There's been almost universal praise of the move so far and it's easy to see why.

This post was voted post of the year by a selection of Monkeys with Typewriters and was mentioned in the news article 'Up Ya Jacksie' printed in the Daily Cheese. Also, if you are reading this, Wikia, yes it might be a bit harsh but hey, remember the old adage "Carrots overflow the burning cookie accumulator". Erm, yeah...

Illogicopedia is in transition - important news!

Well, it's taken... how many months? But the Illogicopedia independence drive has finally pushed forward apace this week. Carlb, owner of servers hosting the Uncyclopedia babel project, has generously donated webspace for Illogicopedia to set up independently of Wikia. The English, French and Dutch Illogicopedias are now kindly hosted by Mr Carl at the following addresses:

• English Illogicopedia
• French Illogicopedia
• Dutch Illogicopedia

Not everything is going smoothly yet though - many images still need to be uploaded, but we're working on it. Also, you will need to re-register under your old name. You can register under a new name, but you will lose all your old edits.

Expect the next month or so to be the hectic time we expected, with the transition taking place from illogicopedia.wikia.com to illogicopedia.com. We're in the process of moving images, edits etc. to the new wiki BUT... and this is a big butt.... ahem... some of the edits may be lost. For this reason, it'll be a case of locating those lost edits and moving them to the new wiki. Please don't try and copy the edits across yourself, the admins will do it for you if you ask them.

The address Illogicopedia.org will still work but direct you to the new wiki. And this is pretty much all you need to know for now! We ask you to make edits to the new wiki rather than the old one as it is phased out.

Oh yeah, almost forgot. Wikia seem to like 'hanging on' to their old wikis - it may be a long, drawn out process whereby they refuse to close the Wikia (judging by precedent) for ages, the wiki going stagnant and dying a death. We won't let them run the wiki concurrently, we'll try and get it shut down. But not right away, we've got some work to do yet.

AID EPOC IGOLLI!!!

Wikia... again

I personally was never really happy with Wikia to start with, they were too meddlesome in their wikis, Sannse promised that this would not be the case. Seems they turned on that rather sharpish. As for other options, despite what people say, we have more than one might think - some of them might be a little ropey, others cost money.

Now then, options:

We stay with Wikia, simple and cheap, and make a lot of noise about how they are pissing everyone off. Start an amnesty for the whole situation, suggest that community members are held in important discussions, not just hired and turned into Wikia drones.

Now for the harder ones, involving moving away:

1. Find a new Wikifarm. Now these ones are a bit ropey on the ground, no other major wikifarm exists apart from maybe Bluwiki and Editthis, but at least they leave their wikis alone.
2. Find a good serverfarm which allows us to run Mediawiki properly. this is another dodgy one, farms are slow and i set up a test wiki for ?pedia ages ago on one but the place went in the pooper.
3. Start our own wikifarm. Rent a server and share the costs between all the wikis, each wiki gets a managed share of the server, good uptime assuming they don't break it. essentially we make a second Wikia, aimed at not for profit.
4. Go entirely solo. rent a server with only us in mind. this will cost uber amounts of money compared to the above. and offers very little in advantages, accept maybe website speed.

So, those are the options, but hey, we don't have much money, so the bottom one is pretty much out of the window.

----------------
Now playing: Mike Oldfield - Far Above the Clouds
via FoxyTunes

Wikia vs Uncyclopedia

Word on the grapevine is that Uncyclopedia wants to go independent, breaking their long-running ties with Wikia. Over thirty users have voted for a move, but whether they'll actually do anything about it is another matter.

However, if they do move, this could be useful for the citizens of Illogicopedia.

1. We could hang onto their coat tails and move to the new server with them.
2. Or, watch what happens and base our transition to independent wiki on their model.
3. Alternatively, sit back and eat fudge cake.
   

I vote for number three.

Meanwhile, Wikia continues on a downward spiral and before long they'll be bust. I can see it now: "Jimbo Wales buys out ailing Wikia because they just plain suck too much to go alone any more". It's an example of commercialism ruining the community: wikis should NEVER be based on capitalist ethics. Otherwise, well, you can see what's happening with Wikia...

More Wikis that want to go independent include Liberapedia, the Furry Wikia and others that I can't think of right now. Further note to Wikia: Meh, I don't care any more. Stick your Web 2.0 bandwagon jumping up yer rather large goat's bumhole.

Illogicopedia's quest for independence - update

Illogicopedian Peoples' Front flag.

It seems that Illogicopedia's independence is going to be delayed for a while longer whilst cost issues are taken into account. More specifically it's being considered whether the move would be worth the money - after all, we the community will be the ones that have to fund it. Advertising would bring in a negligible amount of cash so it has been decided that is not the way to go.

At a cost of around £125 a year, Illogicopedia's new host would be a lot more expensive than Wikia, which costs 32p. Er, I mean it's free. Illogicopedia, however, will not be free until something is sorted finance-wise.

This is not an appeal, so don't donate your book tokens and Monopoly money. This ain't Wikipedia, you know.

Nerd42 on moving away from Wikia

We appear to be moving towards the very very end of our association with Wikia Inc due to the fact that they are moving to a "new style" while the rest of the world isn't. This is my (Nerd42's) first post on IllogiBlog, but some of you may know that I was one of the founders of the site and I was the one who spoke out strongly in favor of our going with Wikia and negotiated with Wikia staff to get us on there. At that time I was against independent hosting for the following reasons:

1. Independent hosting would mean we have less "centrality" thus we get fewer Google hits / a lesser PageRank.
2. Independent hosting means we would have to pay money ... forever ... in order to keep the site running. People would be hesitant to take the time to register and contribute because they would doubt that we would be able to sustain ourselves.
3. Independent hosting could mean that we would be responsible for installing updates to MediaWiki and any other software or plugins we use ourselves, rather than having someone else who is paid to do it (a Wikia staffer) do it for us. We would have to figure technical things out for ourselves. (Or self if one person is going to be responsible for that)

Those were the factors that influenced my thinking on that at that time. Wikia is 1. popular, 2. free and 3. reliable. But also I liked the way the interface looked exactly like Wikipedia because it used the Monobook skin. With the Monobook skin we could make fun of Wikipedia in a nonsensical way, as Uncyclopedia does in a more (or more recently in my personal opinion, in a less) humorous way.

But now, I want to make it clear that my position has changed. Those advantages would still be advantages if we stayed at Wikia but now the disadvantages of Wikia being able to tell us what to do, what our site address is going to be and what our site is going to look like far outweigh the benefits I listed. Therefore, as of now, I support the move.

But I realize that this move is going to come with all the disadvantages of independent hosting. We are going to be obscure, have technical problems and if our piggy banks get too empty, we may have trouble keeping the site online. We may want to start a non-profit foundation or somesuch just to cover hosting costs, or we may need to be funded by ads. I'm not sure but these are options we can explore in the future.

But as one of the few Americans on the ?pedia crew, I've always been more of a John Adams than a John Dickenson so let me just add my voice: I'm for declaring independence!

Indie-logicopedia

It only seems like yesterday when we were welcoming our new Wikia Overlords, but now Illogicopedia is all set to go independent for the first time in its history. The New Monaco saga was the straw that broke the llama's back and key members of the Illogicopedia community have agreed that the site should go it alone, severing its 1-year long ties with Wikia.

New Monaco has been generally regarded as "not very good" amongst Illogicopedians: Asema refuses to edit until a move is complete, while Silent Penguin reckons a new home will bring him more fish. I mean, er, users.

We anticipate problems and hurdles in the coming month or so and it's going to be hectic. Of course going independent will mean custom skins and no more Google ads (oh yeah). Loading times should be increased and downtime decreased but, best of all, the community will be in charge of any major decisions taken.

As a result of the move we may (or may not) put the pickle judging back a while... we'll get back to you on that.

We'll bring you more news on the move as it happens but we anticipate that, in a week's time, the people of Illogicopedia will be free. To do what they want. Like cook socks in the microwave without Sannse nixing it at the last minute.

Aid Epoc Igolli, fellow Illogians.
Hindleyak